Also, I just have to say this now: if the defining characteristic of a person to you is their size, you are a horrible person. Running around proclaiming how you're willing to sleep with someone who is overweight does not make you a saint. If what you think of her first is her weight, you clearly never gave a damn about her in the first place.
It's called "othering." If someone falls outside of certain narrow parameters, people tend to define them by whatever trait makes them "not-default."
Which isn't to say that this is a good thing. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, it's something that we should train ourselves not to do. But even so: it's a thing, and it's fairly common.
Yes, I am aware of that. My point was fat people aren't people who desperately need someone to give them love. You aren't doing them a favour by going out with them. It isn't charity work to go out with a fat person, and it doesn't make someone look like a saint for doing it.
zelda2fanboy said:
As far as the "best she could ever hope for," it's subjective (and bullshit I made up to make me feel better about myself) and I guess all I could provide would be pictures, but I'm not going to do that. I'm crying now because I'm remembering how badly I wanted it to work and how goddamned lonely I am. You win.
If the only way you can feel better about yourself is to put other people down, maybe you should be seeking some help. And yeah, you are kind of acting as if this girl is your soul mate. You're still crying over her even though you only went on two dates eight months ago? Maybe it is time to move on.
Yes, I am aware of that. My point was fat people aren't people who desperately need someone to give them love. You aren't doing them a favour by going out with them. It isn't charity work to go out with a fat person, and it doesn't make someone look like a saint for doing it.
I never said that fat people were inherently desperate for love. Clearly I am well aware of this fact. I'm allowed to miss people. I'm also allowed to have the slightest amount of self confidence and I'm allowed to accurately describe how people look. It's really difficult to "move on" when you have nothing to move on towards or when you relive some old feelings for someone that's gone just to have an internet argument.
And I didn't put her down. She's not here and not reading this, so there's no reason to be dishonest. I never thought of myself as hot until she said it and I later found out from some more people that that could be the case. As Stuart Smaley might say "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and dog gone it, people like me." I am awesome and sexy and funny, damn it. (I'm all over the place tonight.) Anyone who doesn't think so isn't worth my time. She's a lovely person and we might have been something together, or failing that, had some great sex (I later found out I rock at that, too).
Hey, I guess she's not into skinny handsome guys with abs. Maybe she'll find another dude who looks like me who's into double chins and those extra folds of fat, but I sincerely doubt it. (Seeing as how people such as yourself attach negative connotations to it.) I really do think it's beautiful.
1. The girl doesn't realize it
2. They see something you don't.
3. You're wrong and he's not a douchebag.
4. They just want them for the sex(which would mean it isn't a serious relationship I'd think though that was probably mostly a joke reason)
Yes, I am aware of that. My point was fat people aren't people who desperately need someone to give them love. You aren't doing them a favour by going out with them. It isn't charity work to go out with a fat person, and it doesn't make someone look like a saint for doing it.
Wasn't trying to justify it (and sorry if I sounded like I was). I simply never automatically presume that people are familiar with the concept (too many people aren't).
As for the rest: I agree wholeheartedly.
zelda2fanboy said:
I'm allowed to miss people. I'm also allowed to have the slightest amount of self confidence and I'm allowed to accurately describe how people look.
Yes, I am aware of that. My point was fat people aren't people who desperately need someone to give them love. You aren't doing them a favour by going out with them. It isn't charity work to go out with a fat person, and it doesn't make someone look like a saint for doing it.
Wasn't trying to justify it (and sorry if I sounded like I was). I simply never automatically presume that people are familiar with the concept (too many people aren't).
As for the rest: I agree wholeheartedly.
zelda2fanboy said:
I'm allowed to miss people. I'm also allowed to have the slightest amount of self confidence and I'm allowed to accurately describe how people look.
I've reread all of my posts and I can't see where I appear to be "lashing out at her." I did see a lot of posts painting me as the eeviillll man who expresses self confidence and respect.
Yes, I am aware of that. My point was fat people aren't people who desperately need someone to give them love. You aren't doing them a favour by going out with them. It isn't charity work to go out with a fat person, and it doesn't make someone look like a saint for doing it.
Well I wasn't actually aware it was called othering so thanks, you taught me something .
zelda2fanboy said:
And I didn't put her down. She's not here and not reading this, so there's no reason to be dishonest. I never thought of myself as hot until she said it and I later found out from some more people that that could be the case. As Stuart Smaley might say "I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and dog gone it, people like me." I am awesome and sexy and funny, damn it. (I'm all over the place tonight.) Anyone who doesn't think so isn't worth my time. She's a lovely person and we might have been something together, or failing that, had some great sex (I later found out I rock at that, too).
Hey, I guess she's not into skinny handsome guys with abs. Maybe she'll find another dude who looks like me who's into double chins and those extra folds of fat, but I sincerely doubt it. (Seeing as how people such as yourself attach negative connotations to it.) I really do think it's beautiful.
Oh right... if you put someone down behind their back that totally doesn't make you a jerk.
Oh and nice try trying to turn this all around on me. You're the one attaching negative connotations to being overweight, and you're the one who is making it such a big deal you went out with someone who is overweight.
As someone who is very overweight, let me tell you something: we don't want charity. Of course, we don't like it when people make fun of us because of our weight, but that doesn't mean we like it any better when people try to put us on a pedestal either.
Also, if you haven't dated more than one person maybe the problem is with you. If you're as attractive as you're trying to make yourself sound, maybe it is your personality that is putting people off. Honestly, just from these brief messages I've seen from you, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near you for an extended period of time.
Oh right... if you put someone down behind their back that totally doesn't make you a jerk.
Oh and nice try trying to turn this all around on me. You're the one attaching negative connotations to being overweight, and you're the one who is making it such a big deal you went out with someone who is overweight.
As someone who is very overweight, let me tell you something: we don't want charity. Of course, we don't like it when people make fun of us because of our weight, but that doesn't mean we like it any better when people try to put us on a pedestal either.
Also, if you haven't dated more than one person maybe the problem is with you. If you're as attractive as you're trying to make yourself sound, maybe it is your personality that is putting people off. Honestly, just from these brief messages I've seen from you, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near you for an extended period of time.
Well that explains a lot. More and more, I've found the overweight love to play the victim or failing that, self righteous defender of the meek. The majority of Americans are fat. The one thing you can't get away with in public is fat jokes because almost everybody is fat or knows someone who's fat. Hell, race is easier to make fun of in this country than weight. You have won. Get over it.
This girl certainly didn't act like a victim and I respected that. She liked herself and occasionally puts up some boudoir photos on her facebook. It's sexy and she knows it.
Let me get this straight:
I don't like fat people because I think they're unattractive. = I'm a horrible person.
I love fat people because I think they're attractive = I'm a horrible person.
So I guess I'm not allowed to discuss, describe, or think about the physical traits of a woman, even when one of my favorite things to do is lick her body parts. Jesus Christ. I also agree that you and I shouldn't spend time around each other.
And by the way, yes, I am God's gift to women. Lou Reed wrote a song about me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9drWX1mZu4
I've reread all of my posts and I can't see where I appear to be "lashing out at her." I did see a lot of posts painting me as the eeviillll man who expresses self confidence and respect.
Well...the way you worded your original post? You did kind of make it sound like you'd lowered your standards to go with a fat girl, she was never going to do better, and that she had the gall to disagree on that latter count.
MasochisticAvenger said:
Well I wasn't actually aware it was called othering so thanks, you taught me something .
I've reread all of my posts and I can't see where I appear to be "lashing out at her." I did see a lot of posts painting me as the eeviillll man who expresses self confidence and respect.
Well...the way you worded your original post? You did kind of make it sound like you'd lowered your standards to go with a fat girl, she was never going to do better, and that she had the gall to disagree on that latter count.
This is called personification. I wrote about myself as a man who enjoyed sexual contact with overweight people and considered himself physically attractive and you immediately saw a "player" who didn't respect women.
I always find it funny that guys still think women choose who they're attracted to... I'm sorry, but the reason a guy gets friendzoned is usually not because "women only date bastards"(if you get the quote you get a cookie) but because women don't see you as a "Man" but as a large boy, and a burden, it's all in how you carry yourself, and how you present yourself, if you play the "nice guy" and suck up to women you are making yourself less of a man in doing so.
Oh. My. God. You nailed it so hard. Well, at least for my experience. The last guy who asked me out, well, it's like I have to babysit him like a child so he doesn't misbehave and get us kicked out of wherever we are. He's a nice guy, yes, but he acts like he's 12, he doesn't seem like he's a man yet.
And, hell, I'm a girl who's been "frienzoned" and I certainly didn't ***** about it. I cried a bit, ate chocolate and went on my merry way as a friend. It's just that they don't want to date you. If they still want to be friends it's not like they think you're a bad person, it's just they don't get the attraction. If you aren't attracted, forcing yourself to date someone you don't really like in that way will end very poorly.
Oh right... if you put someone down behind their back that totally doesn't make you a jerk.
Oh and nice try trying to turn this all around on me. You're the one attaching negative connotations to being overweight, and you're the one who is making it such a big deal you went out with someone who is overweight.
As someone who is very overweight, let me tell you something: we don't want charity. Of course, we don't like it when people make fun of us because of our weight, but that doesn't mean we like it any better when people try to put us on a pedestal either.
Also, if you haven't dated more than one person maybe the problem is with you. If you're as attractive as you're trying to make yourself sound, maybe it is your personality that is putting people off. Honestly, just from these brief messages I've seen from you, I wouldn't want to be anywhere near you for an extended period of time.
Well that explains a lot. More and more, I've found the overweight love to play the victim or failing that, self righteous defender of the meek. The majority of Americans are fat. The one thing you can't get away with in public is fat jokes because almost everybody is fat or knows someone who's fat. Hell, race is easier to make fun of in this country than weight. You have won. Get over it.
This girl certainly didn't act like a victim and I respected that. She liked herself and occasionally puts up some boudoir photos on her facebook. It's sexy and she knows it.
Let me get this straight:
I don't like fat people because I think they're unattractive. = I'm a horrible person.
I love fat people because I think they're attractive = I'm a horrible person.
So I guess I'm not allowed to discuss, describe, or think about the physical traits of a woman, even when one of my favorite things to do is lick her body parts. Jesus Christ. I also agree that you and I shouldn't spend time around each other.
And by the way, yes, I am God's gift to women. Lou Reed wrote a song about me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9drWX1mZu4
Well maybe it just seems that way since you love acting as if you are throwing overweight people a bone by being interested in them. Yes, some overweight people like to play the victim in the exact same way some skinny people like to play the victim.
So you've gone from "this girl pulled away when I told her she was beautiful" to "this girl believes she is sexy and posts racy photos of herself on Facebook". Sorry, but I am going to have to call lying here.
What is unacceptable though is suggesting people should lower their standards and give those overweight people pity sex.
I think that the Friend-Zone definitely exists, but the name is certainly a misnomer.
If a man enters into a platonic relationship in a hopeless attempt to woo an otherwise uninterested woman then that is hardly what I'd call a friendship.
Similarly, if the only contact a man has with a "potential love interest" is when she wants him to preform some task for her that she cannot do for herself, then that doesn't qualify as a friendship either.
And finally, you know how in any skit that describes the Friend-Zone you'll see the guy being used as an emotional punching bag typically after carrying around all of the girl's shopping bags? Yeah?
Real friends don't do that either. Again, not a friendship.
But I guess Zone of the slimy nice guys, exploitative bitches and emotional vampires doesn't quite have the same ring to it, does it?
Oh. My. God. You nailed it so hard. Well, at least for my experience. The last guy who asked me out, well, it's like I have to babysit him like a child so he doesn't misbehave and get us kicked out of wherever we are. He's a nice guy, yes, but he acts like he's 12, he doesn't seem like he's a man yet.
And, hell, I'm a girl who's been "frienzoned" and I certainly didn't ***** about it. I cried a bit, ate chocolate and went on my merry way as a friend. It's just that they don't want to date you. If they still want to be friends it's not like they think you're a bad person, it's just they don't get the attraction. If you aren't attracted, forcing yourself to date someone you don't really like in that way will end very poorly.
Haha, that's hillarious, and sadly true about a lot of my buddies... I wish they'd let me teach them the ways of the force-I mean how to be a real man-I mean, I'm not a jedi or anything, I swear!
I mean hell I'm not the most austere person, but I'm mature enough to take care of myself, and I'm not a desperate guy, even when it's been awhile, I'm happy single, just when I'm in a relationship, some adventures are just better with company, and no I'm not playing around with inuendos either, even though that fits perfectly as well. But going hiking/camping/going to a movie/chillin at home watching shit on netflix, it's all better when you've got someone else with you.
It's when guys are all about sex, just want sex, and really aren't mature enough to see that sex is just a miniscule, though quite nice I will admit, benefit of the whole arrangement, it acts as a deepening agent for a stronger psycho-emotional connection, good sex I mean, sex sex is nothing special, and if you have it too often it just gets annoying, anyhow digression has been made, but they're the ones who are perpetually desperate, and reak of insecurity, and insincerety, unless they really really know their game, but then again I've been there and I felt like a total scumbag doing that, so let's just say if they have a conscience, and stuff... It just doesn't work.
Hell I ain't perfect, it took me awhile to grow up... well technically I went from a recluse to a womanizing wretch then to this point in social maturety in the space of 3 years, so, I would say that I grew up fast, but then again nearly dying multiple times in that span of time mighta had something to do with it.
Now I just wish that I could find someone of the opposite sex that I could relate to in my collection of interests, and have intellectually stimulating conversations with, which is sadly really hard to find where I live if you're a guy like me, cuz I'm poor, and I'm technically uneducated, after all being self taught through constant research counts for nothing and the women here have too high standards and generally the "smart" ones won't give me a second glance, I've got my pick of the crackheads, and bar stars, but they irritate and bore me, such is life though, maybe I'll find someone, maybe I'll be forrever alone, don't much matter in the long run, as I intent to have fun and thoroughly enjoy myself one way or the other.
I think that the Friend-Zone definitely exists, but the name is certainly a misnomer.
If a man enters into a platonic relationship in a hopeless attempt to woo an otherwise uninterested woman then that is hardly what I'd call a friendship.
Similarly, if the only contact a man has with a "potential love interest" is when she wants him to preform some task for her that she cannot do for herself, then that doesn't qualify as a friendship either.
And finally, you know how in any skit that describes the Friend-Zone you'll see the guy being used as an emotional punching bag typically after carrying around all of the girl's shopping bags? Yeah?
Real friends don't do that either. Again, not a friendship.
But I guess Zone of the slimy nice guys, exploitative bitches and emotional vampires doesn't quite have the same ring to it, does it?
I think you've earned a gold star for observational excellence, also I like "Zone of slimy nice guys, exploitative bitches and emotional vampires" mind if I use that in conversation next time one of my buddies bitches about it? I'm always looking for more ammunition in the fight against the friendzone dilema, I mean I've never had that problem, but that's because I have genuine female friends, and have no problem differentiating them from women that I date, also I have too much self respect to be used by people.
Maybe they think your middle toe is too big for them to date you. It is entirely their choice who they date and I don't think you have any right to complain. You don't own them so stop being so upset when they don't do as you please. If you want the girl, ask her out or quit ya yapping.
I don't think that's fair. Either you really do have chivalrous-pervert friends, or you're being unfair. Platonic or not, they're still men and you're still a woman. Hundreds of thousands of years of evolution has hard-wired their brain to look at women in a certain way. They can't help it if they do it unwillingly. I have a few female friends that I would never have sex with, EVER. All the drinks and whatever in the world and regardless of whether they came on to me, if they're strictly friends then it's always NO, and I've even been in situations like that where I've had to keep everything in line. But even I can't help but notice if they're wearing a very short skirt of exposing tops or whatever. They don't become instantly unattractive or female just because we're friends, hundreds of thousands of years of evolution doesn't just turn off.
Just because I notice it or look for a second, it doesn't make me a pervert and I quite frankly take offense if you imply that I am. And I don't think it's fair to say that they act like "any sleazy chap". If noticing someone's features, when they're of the very gender you're attracted to, makes you sleazy, then I think there's really no such thing as a "non-sleazy" person. At least not among men, I don't know what it's like for women so I can't speak for you.
But to clarify, I have to say, that there's a reason between staring and looking/noticing.
Perhaps, I'll cede that if men walked around with their testicles half-exposed I'd probably sneak a peek, and I'd be disappointed if noone had a quick peek at all. But when I'm trying to make eye contact and discuss something important it can be very irritating how blatantly they do it. We're evolutionary compelled to do many things, but that doesn't mean we should surrunder ourselves to such atavistic behaviour all the time I'd hope.
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