Psst he is in the friend zone

[Naeras]

It's possible to like someone without being physically and/or romantically attracted to them. No, I can't explain how that works, but that's the basis for why I've friendzoned several women in my time as well.
Because, yes, guys friend-zone women too. It's just that women usually don't complain as much about it. I recall one who did do that, which, in turn, is one of the reasons why she got friendzoned. gee gee.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Here goes:
Women like handsome guys. Those that are not handsome will therefore not get a date with any girl that isn't seriously desperate (as in, similarly non-attractive). The exceptions to this rule are few and far between, and even then, the guy probably has some serious charisma.
So, to all of you unfortunates out there:
Life is not fair. You were not given a fair fighting chance, nor will you ever get something resembling one. There really is no way around it.

Moe: "I must be the ugliest person alive."
Homer: "Oh, Moe, there are lots of people uglier than you. Have you ever been to White Castle?"

Seriously, the ratio of good looking people to not good looking people in this world is vastly in favor of the fuglies. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that there are probably more physically unattractive women than physically unattractive men, thanks to biology adding the pounds on women at a greater rate. And having dated a "not so good looking gal" in my time, I can assure that they can still be quite sexy and worth your time. Don't discount them. Making out with a fat girl opened my eyes to a lot of possibilities. I'm still single as shit, but that's another story. I should also point out that I'm hot as fuck and this girl who rejected me is really missing out. I'm probably the hottest guy she will ever make out with. I take a slight amount of satisfaction in that.

Saying "girls don't like me because I'm ugly" is an astonishingly weak excuse.

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

Here goes:
Women like handsome guys. Those that are not handsome will therefore not get a date with any girl that isn't seriously desperate (as in, similarly non-attractive). The exceptions to this rule are few and far between, and even then, the guy probably has some serious charisma.
So, to all of you unfortunates out there:
Life is not fair. You were not given a fair fighting chance, nor will you ever get something resembling one. There really is no way around it.

Moe: "I must be the ugliest person alive."
Homer: "Oh, Moe, there are lots of people uglier than you. Have you ever been to White Castle?"

Seriously, the ratio of good looking people to not good looking people in this world is vastly in favor of the fuglies. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that there are probably more physically unattractive women than physically unattractive men, thanks to biology adding the pounds on women at a greater rate. And having dated a "not so good looking gal" in my time, I can assure that they can still be quite sexy and worth your time. Don't discount them. Making out with a fat girl opened my eyes to a lot of possibilities. I'm still single as shit, but that's another story. I should also point out that I'm hot as fuck and this girl who rejected me is really missing out. I'm probably the hottest guy she will ever make out with. I take a slight amount of satisfaction in that.

Saying "girls don't like me because I'm ugly" is an astonishingly weak excuse.

Oh wow, the arrogance levels in this post are off the chart. Did you really think making out with a fat person was going to be any different than making out with a skinny person? Seriously, it's guys like you that give the rest of us a bad name.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

What's wrong with the obvious fact that she isn't attracted to you?

That would require acknowledging that common decency entitles you to nothing more than reciprocation of same.

Stopped thinking of them as human beings? Your self-pity or whatever isn't an excuse for that despicable view.

Indeed. Also, creepy.

Guys do this too. I'm friends with girls that I wouldn't date because frankly, I'm shallow and if there's no physical attraction I will not date someone.

In a perfect world it wouldn't matter. But it does. And girls while usually less shallow than guys, are still shallow. And I'd like to point out it isn't a personality flaw. Everyone has their own standards.

It should be added that there's also something of a double standard in regards to being shallow, and that we're quicker as a society to accuse women of being shallow to begin with. (See: the logic of those "True Forced Loneliness" drips.)

Also, I'm so fucking sick of seeing guys be like "Oh but we're always there for you"

THATS WHAT FRIENDS ARE FOR.

Guys really, if you can't deal with this stop being friends with girls.

Hear to the freakin' hear. Especially if I've let you cry on my shoulder just as many times.

Oh wow, the arrogance levels in this post are off the chart. Did you really think making out with a fat person was going to be any different than making out with a skinny person? Seriously, it's guys like you that give the rest of us a bad name.

Not to mention: similarly creepy.

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

Things are going great, you have a lot in common and then suddenly.... screech: friendship. I've never understood women that do this.
Maybe they have more trouble finding friends? Personally, I stopped thinking of them as human beings around the time I lost a second relationship because "But you're such a great guy, I don't want to lose you as a friend!".

In case you're wondering, yes, assholes do get about a million times more action. No love but then love's probably just another fairy-tale.

Do you want to know what "assholes" get more action than "nice guys"? Because a "nice guy" will find one girl he likes and fixate on her endlessly, believing if he just holds out long enough he'll eventually open the key to her heart/pants. However, an "asshole" will ask a girl out, get rejected, and move onto the next girl. As unromantic as it sounds, dating is a numbers game: the more people you ask, the better chance you have of getting a yes.

 

[miketehmage]

I should also point out that I'm hot as fuck and this girl who rejected me is really missing out. I'm probably the hottest guy she will ever make out with. I take a slight amount of satisfaction in that.

Saying "girls don't like me because I'm ugly" is an astonishingly weak excuse.

Not sure if trolling.

I think it's great that you're confident but.... wow.

 

[LetalisK]

Women want a bad boy who is nice just for her.

Men want a nice girl who is bad just for him.

I'm stealing this and there is nothing you can do about it! *runs off Looney Tunes style*

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Oh wow, the arrogance levels in this post are off the chart. Did you really think making out with a fat person was going to be any different than making out with a skinny person? Seriously, it's guys like you that give the rest of us a bad name.

Not sure if trolling.

I think it's great that you're confident but.... wow.

Lol. I'm unusually high on life today. My original point is that no, making out with a fat person isn't substantially that different from making out with a skinny person. (The exception is when it's a hot day and the girl forgets to wear deodorant. Then she stops us midway to dig some out of her purse and put some on. I'm not joking. To be fair, a "skinny" person might not be that considerate.) So when people say "I'm ugly and that's why girls don't like me" probably isn't taking into consideration of the wide (pun) variety of women walking around in this world. Making out with a fat girl is awesome and I recommend it highly. We had a lot in common, had some good conversations, and I was depressed for a really long time when she quit responding to my facebook messages. Finally I got to a point today where I realized "She's missing out. I'm fantastic." My mom agreed.

And no, just because she was fat doesn't mean she was unattractive, nor does it mean she was more or less likely to make out with me... I think. In between gasps and moans, I recall her saying "You're so hot" and she seemed to pull away when I whispered "You're beautiful." I meant it, but I suspect she thought I was full of shit. I also got to see her tits on the first date, which I later found out was not the norm (I had never made out with a girl before). I've seen the other guys she's dated and they appear to be grubby stoners not unlike herself. If she hooks up with a dude that's better looking than I, I'd be fairly surprised, but nonetheless happy for her.

I just think a lot of guys just look at this whole friend zone thing from the wrong perspective. If you're really so great, then it's her that is missing out.

 

[HalfTangible]

I'm celibate, so take this with a grain of salt, but i've heard this enough to take a guess at why the friendzone exists and why guys find it annoying:

The friendzone exists because there is such a thing as liking a person without wanting to slip your tongue down their throat. That one's easy: a place for people you like as a person, but don't like romantically. Guys do it too, though in my experience it's easier for girls to accept for some reason. There's probably an evolutionary theory for it but whatever.

In situations like the OP outlined, however, the friendzone is unbelievably frustrating because the girls in question are complaining there are no 'good guys'. People you're friends with are not bad guys, or neutral guys. They're people you like. IE, good guys. If they were BAD guys, you wouldn't be their friend. Sure, you don't want to date them, and that's fine. But complaining there are no GOOD guys makes no sense because there ARE good guys - they're just in the friend zone.

Certainly, 'nice' should not be the only criteria for a boyfriend/girlfriend. But when it's the only trait you bring up, it's very frustrating to know there ARE people with that trait that you're just ignoring.

I'm not saying girls should start looking through the friend zone like hungry sharks out for blood (not sure why i used that particular metaphor >.> something might be wrong with me) just putting in my 2 cents.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

The friendzone exists because there is such a thing as liking a person without wanting to slip your tongue down their throat. That one's easy: a place for people you like as a person, but don't like romantically. Guys do it too, though in my experience it's easier for girls to accept for some reason. There's probably an evolutionary theory for it but whatever.

In situations like the OP outlined, however, the friendzone is unbelievably frustrating because the girls in question are complaining there are no 'good guys'. People you're friends with are not bad guys, or neutral guys. They're people you like. IE, good guys. If they were BAD guys, you wouldn't be their friend. Sure, you don't want to date them, and that's fine. But complaining there are no GOOD guys makes no sense because there ARE good guys - they're just in the friend zone.

Two things to say to this:

1) Yes, it'd probably be more honest to say "why do I never end up falling for someone like you?" than to claim there's no one "good" out there. However, I don't think there's any calculation to it; it simply probably never occurs to people to put it that way.

However...

2) Your typical "friendzone complainer" would most likely take it the same way (if not worse). Remember that there are usually some uckfupped self-entitlement issues in play.

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

Oh wow, the arrogance levels in this post are off the chart. Did you really think making out with a fat person was going to be any different than making out with a skinny person? Seriously, it's guys like you that give the rest of us a bad name.

Not sure if trolling.

I think it's great that you're confident but.... wow.

Lol. I'm unusually high on life today. My original point is that no, making out with a fat person isn't substantially that different from making out with a skinny person. (The exception is when it's a hot day and the girl forgets to wear deodorant. Then she stops us midway to dig some out of her purse and put some on. I'm not joking. To be fair, a "skinny" person might not be that considerate.) So when people say "I'm ugly and that's why girls don't like me" probably isn't taking into consideration of the wide (pun) variety of women walking around in this world. Making out with a fat girl is awesome and I recommend it highly. We had a lot in common, had some good conversations, and I was depressed for a really long time when she quit responding to my facebook messages. Finally I got to a point today where I realized "She's missing out. I'm fantastic." My mom agreed.

And no, just because she was fat doesn't mean she was unattractive, nor does it mean she was more or less likely to make out with me... I think. In between gasps and moans, I recall her saying "You're so hot" and she seemed to pull away when I whispered "You're beautiful." I meant it, but I suspect she thought I was full of shit. I also got to see her tits on the first date, which I later found out was not the norm (I had never made out with a girl before). I've seen the other guys she's dated and they appear to be grubby stoners not unlike herself. If she hooks up with a dude that's better looking than I, I'd be fairly surprised, but nonetheless happy for her.

I just think a lot of guys just look at this whole friend zone thing from the wrong perspective. If you're really so great, then it's her that is missing out.

Wow, you just went from arrogant to just plain horrible. There is a huge difference between dating someone regardless of appearance, and using someone who isn't stylized perfection to make you feel better about yourself. I hope that girl got as far away from you as possible, because she deserves much better than you.

 

[Headsprouter]

Because they're your friends doesn't mean they have to go out with you. Friend zone is dumb.

Assuming you mean the concept is dumb, and guys complaining about it are being stupid....

Yes, but I think the problem the OP is having is that all these girls are claiming all they want is a "nice guy", when what they really want is a nice, good-looking guy with good financial prospects blah blah blah, nestbuilding and child-rearing instinctive requirements, etc etc....

"Nice guy" means more than what it says to these women. If this is all they wanted, they would have went for it a long time ago.

Hah, don't kid yourself. It probably has little to do with finances and the like. Maybe looks somewhat. But you're missing the obvious lack of personality some people can have. 'Nice' is far from sufficient personality-wise.

How am I kidding myself....? Nevermind, that's not important...

I'm talking about that utterly obnoxious part where you act like the reasons are annoying stereotypical things like money and looks as opposed to things like him simply not being interesting or other things. =|

But you agree that women are asking for a lot more than just being treated nicely. I think this is what men don't understand. Nice is flexible. Like you say, for some, in fact, most, it can mean a great personality.

Well no I wouldn't say nice makes for a great personality when dating. I know girls who I think are nice, but if I think about it I wouldn't find their personalities particularly great for dating. For instance one friend I have seems too outgoing. Another is nice but I find myself lacking in enthusiasm for the things they find interesting a fair amount of the time and it seems that the reverse is true as well. I think plenty of people are nice, but it's far from all I want as far as personality goes.

Here's something I don't understand, though: All these douchebags they date. Obviously they turned out to have AMAZING, likable personalities. What makes those who treat others like dirt so attractive? I suppose they don't mind, until it's shot their way.

Vault101 listed some nice possible reasons.

1. The girl doesn't realize it
2. They see something you don't.
3. You're wrong and he's not a douchebag.
4. They just want them for the sex(which would mean it isn't a serious relationship I'd think though that was probably mostly a joke reason)

Well, yes that part was a bit misogonyst and stereotypical, but I didn't mean for it to come across that way. I'm probably mostly incorrect there, but in many cases, those characteristics can be a decider....they're not gonna date a homeless drunk for his AWESOME personality, are they? Maybe that's a crazy example, but you get what I mean.
I wasn't KIDDING myself...I was just quite biased. Not lying to myself in any way. Ive had little experience outside of this. Inputting to a discussion without full understanding.
Not denial, rationalization, sublimation, repression in any sort of way.

Now that that's cleared up....
But if....nevermind. We already cleared up that I'm rather uninformed on this subject. Why continue?

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Wow, you just went from arrogant to just plain horrible. There is a huge difference between dating someone regardless of appearance, and using someone who isn't stylized perfection to make you feel better about yourself. I hope that girl got as far away from you as possible, because she deserves much better than you.

Use her? What are you talking about? This is the first girl I ever dated (at age 24), and not only that, the first girl who ever paid any attention to me. You know what happened after having that amazing first date, making out for three hours, and experiencing an emotional/physical bond with a person I had never felt before? I managed to get one more date with her. Then the next week she was too busy. And the next. And the next, until finally she just stopped responding to me altogether. I felt like utter shit for months. I really liked her. And you know what I was doing when I was not dating her? Not dating anybody for the last 8 months.

If anything, she used me, if you're reading it that way and you like to cast blame or fault (which you appear to be). My point is that I analyzed it and broke it down and tried to figure out what was wrong with me. And I finally finally get to place where it doesn't hurt that I'm alone and friendless. And you take that from me. Yet they call me a troll. Good on ya.

Oh, and a few months later she seemed like she was interested in me again. I was so excited to get to see her again. She stood me up. Twice.

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

Wow, you just went from arrogant to just plain horrible. There is a huge difference between dating someone regardless of appearance, and using someone who isn't stylized perfection to make you feel better about yourself. I hope that girl got as far away from you as possible, because she deserves much better than you.

Use her? What are you talking about? This is the first girl I ever dated (at age 24), and not only that, the first girl who ever paid any attention to me. You know what happened after having that amazing first date, making out for three hours, and experiencing an emotional/physical bond with a person I had never felt before? I managed to get one more date with her. Then the next week she was too busy. And the next. And the next, until finally she just stopped responding to me altogether. I felt like utter shit for months. I really liked her. And you know what I was doing when I was not dating her? Not dating anybody for the last 8 months.

If anything, she used me, if you're reading it that way and you like to cast blame or fault (which you appear to be). My point is that I analyzed it and broke it down and tried to figure out what was wrong with me. And I finally finally get to place where it doesn't hurt that I'm alone and friendless. And you take that from me. Yet they call me a troll. Good on ya.

Oh, and a few months later she seemed like she was interested in me again. I was so excited to get to see her again. She stood me up. Twice.

So let me get this straight. You were a twenty-four year old who had never been on a date before, you confused lust with actual attraction (sorry, but if after one date you're declaring her to be your soul mate, you really need a reality check), and you're trying to act like you're the best she can ever hope for?

Let me be clear about this: you weren't that good in her opinion. The "amazing" date you two shared wasn't all that special to her. The reason she has been ignoring you isn't because she thought you were "too attractive" for her.

Also, I just have to say this now: if the defining characteristic of a person to you is their size, you are a horrible person. Running around proclaiming how you're willing to sleep with someone who is overweight does not make you a saint. If what you think of her first is her weight, you clearly never gave a damn about her in the first place.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Also, I just have to say this now: if the defining characteristic of a person to you is their size, you are a horrible person. Running around proclaiming how you're willing to sleep with someone who is overweight does not make you a saint. If what you think of her first is her weight, you clearly never gave a damn about her in the first place.

It's called "othering." If someone falls outside of certain narrow parameters, people tend to define them by whatever trait makes them "not-default."

Which isn't to say that this is a good thing. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, it's something that we should train ourselves not to do. But even so: it's a thing, and it's fairly common.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

So let me get this straight. You were a twenty-four year old who had never been on a date before, you confused lust with actual attraction (sorry, but if after one date you're declaring her to be your soul mate, you really need a reality check), and you're trying to act like you're the best she can ever hope for?

Let me be clear about this: you weren't that good in her opinion. The "amazing" date you two shared wasn't all that special to her. The reason she has been ignoring you isn't because she thought you were "too attractive" for her.

Also, I just have to say this now: if the defining characteristic of a person to you is their size, you are a horrible person. Running around proclaiming how you're willing to sleep with someone who is overweight does not make you a saint. If what you think of her first is her weight, you clearly never gave a damn about her in the first place.

Again, you are attaching traits that aren't there. I don't think of her chiefly because of her weight or appearance, though I did find her very physically attractive. My original point was that you can't be too ugly for every girl on the planet to not like you. I used to think that about myself. The post I was responding to was a statement about looks and appearances, so I answered accordingly. She went on to date a guy that wouldn't be "traditionally considered to be attractive" or what she gleefully referred to as a "dirty hippie." It didn't work out from what I can tell.

I didn't declare her after one date to be my "soul mate." I just plain didn't say that. She was a very cool person. We liked the same music and movies, which is rare because we like some obscure shit. She was compassionate, sweet, and kind, while I was incredibly awkward as one might be on a first date. I'm lucky to have met her. I'd happily date her again if the opportunity arose or just be her friend. She has lots of friends and really doesn't need me, though.

As far as the "best she could ever hope for," it's subjective (and bullshit I made up to make me feel better about myself) and I guess all I could provide would be pictures, but I'm not going to do that. I'm crying now because I'm remembering how badly I wanted it to work and how goddamned lonely I am. You win.

 

[lacktheknack]

The moment women stop calling all guys assholes and going on about how there isn't any good guys out there is the moment the friendzone ceases to exist.

Oh so it never existed.

Maybe in your corner of the world. One sweeping look at my Facebook wall fills the criteria needed for his definition of a friendzone quite admirably.

Girls whinging about all guys being assholes: Check.

Constant romance drama: Check.

Guys complaining about being friendzoned: Check.

Looks like it exists around here.

EDIT: Might as well mention that I don't give care one way or the other, but your assertion that it "never existed" strikes me as odd.