Question about "friend zone".

[Icehearted]

If you have to negotiate your way into someone's affection, they have no genuine affection for you and will grow to resent you for it. Women have tried this with me a lot, and every time I just get annoyed that they try so hard for something I've made clear will never happen. I know women that have been through similar, and generally they feel the same. Whining, begging, pleading for a way out of friendzone says that you don't think a friendship with that person is good enough (a hurtful thing to imply, even if it's truly how you feel), and it comes off as desperate and a little pathetic.

People won't think more of you if a no leads to groveling, they'll actually probably think less of you for being so childish about it, and probably be put off at having their own feelings dismissed.

question: would you start a relationship with someone who was'nt your friend?

think about that.

Because that doesn't usually work out well either. Attraction is pretty much an immediate response, people don't grow into attraction, they either are or are not. Being friends with the person you're with is important, but being with a person you're already friends with changes the dynamics a lot, and will often ruin friendships because things are no longer what they were, and change is often a scary and painful thing, even when for the "better".

 

[JesterRaiin]

[sub] Not 'you' specifically, OP, 'you' in general, man or woman.[/sub]

Thank you. To know foreign language (a bit) doesn't immediately grant deep understanding of all nuances.

It didn't occur to me earlier, however when i sobered up enough to remember my life it finnaly got me...

You're in the friend zone, so i guess there was this moment when she said "you're like my best friend, older/younger brother" or similar sh*t.

Question is (or rather questions are) : how could you agree ? Why didn't you protest ? Why haven't you proposed better, more adequate solution ?

Because most girls I'm friend zone'd with are my actual FRIENDS.
Contrary to popular believe not all males want to bang every chick that is nice to them.

Combustion Kevin said it before, but i'll repeat :
So your possible girlfriend isn't supposed to be your friend ?
Interesting. I blame Facebook and all social portals that overuse "friend" word.

Several of my female friends are in fact also in MY friend zone, and I wouldn't sleep with them if they begged me.

Sure, sure.

 

[Caligulove]

Well, as the great Chris Rock describes the Friend Zone/Platonic Friends

"Women keep platonic friends for life. You know why? because 'You Never Know...' A platonic friend to a woman is like a dick in a glass case."
IN CASE OF EMERGENCY; BREAK GLASS

That's how I started dating one of my girlfriends in the past. Ending up in the friend zone usually means neither party was interested in the beginning, or more common, one side messed it up at the start. If you find yourself friend-zoned from a girl or guy, I would say its on your own fault for not being forward with your intentions, or too vague. Yes, you are a good person and could work out with this person, but that side has never been put out there, or you're more oblivious to all of the person's desires than you think you are.

 

[Kopikatsu]

There's no such thing as the "friend zone". I'd write something up, but BonsaiK has already said it better than I ever could:

Yes it's possible to be friends with someone but the idea of a "Friend Zone" that you're allocated to after a certain time period of knowing somebody is total fantasy, thought up by bored, lonely, misogynist keyboard jockeys who can't deal with the simple fact that men and women aren't really all that different when it comes to this particular point. They're looking for something to shift the blame for their failures on (because it couldn't possibly be that girls just don't like them much, oh gosh no) so they create this bullshit theory instead of acknowledging the harsh truth: that they never had a chance because she just didn't like them in the first place. Anything but take personal responsibility for their life and actions, hey.

That part I bolded. That's the friend zone. That's exactly what the friend zone means.

 

[Dascylus]

Ok, I just gave my advice knowing the inevitable of your true desires. Clearly though you want assurance.
In which case, this might work but is far more likely to blow up in your face.
Think of it as a walkthrough...

Have a friends day out, have some fun. Do something special that still falls in the friend zone but plays on the border of a date.
I would involve a small amount of alcohol to relax the situation but not too much or you'll overplay things. Wine or beer with a meal is good.
At the end of the night at a point when she isn't trapped (Not waiting for the bill, stuck in a small place, she has the option to make her own way home etc) you tell her (and not in a pour your heart out way) that you enjoy her company as a friend but you can't help wanting something more (or your own words would be better).

Depending on how the conversation goes you will get one of the following responses.

1. She feels the same way and it's all fairytale for however long it lasts (Yes I'm a cynic but I have nothing against it if you wanna keep dreaming)
2. She laughs it off and you decide to keep it in the friend zone but you will always be kicking yourself for pushing things.
3. It all gets too uncomfortable and she won't hang out with you for ages until you eventually drift apart.

I suggest following my original advice and not opening the quest-line but if you must don't say I didn't warn you.
And don't just disappear, I personally want to hear any result of you ignoring all other sane advice and "Helping yourself"

Here's my personal rule No. 1 - There is always another.

 

[ms_sunlight]

No; I'm suggesting that romantic relationships must by definition be consensual. Moving a relationship in a direction that one of the participants does not want is not better for anyone.

Nope. Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

When someone is dragged into a sexual relationship they do not want, we call that "rape".

Just saying.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

There's no such thing as the "friend zone". I'd write something up, but BonsaiK has already said it better than I ever could:

Yes it's possible to be friends with someone but the idea of a "Friend Zone" that you're allocated to after a certain time period of knowing somebody is total fantasy, thought up by bored, lonely, misogynist keyboard jockeys who can't deal with the simple fact that men and women aren't really all that different when it comes to this particular point. They're looking for something to shift the blame for their failures on (because it couldn't possibly be that girls just don't like them much, oh gosh no) so they create this bullshit theory instead of acknowledging the harsh truth: that they never had a chance because she just didn't like them in the first place. Anything but take personal responsibility for their life and actions, hey.

This.

Also, OP, seriously - use the Search Bar.

I'd post a "This Thread Again" image, but I honestly don't feel like making the effort.

 

[JesterRaiin]

No; I'm suggesting that romantic relationships must by definition be consensual. Moving a relationship in a direction that one of the participants does not want is not better for anyone.

Nope. Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

When someone is dragged into a sexual relationship they do not want, we call that "rape".

Just saying.

I said "joint events", you thought about "rape". Interesting. Iiiiiiiiiinteresting indeed.

 

[chowderface]

I'm almost certain that the "Friend Zone" as a negative concept was invented entirely by Nice Guys. If you think about the implications it's actually an incredibly sexist concept: "She doesn't want to fuck me, so why doesn't she just say she's not interested? It's not like she could possibly be at all interesting to me outside of having a vagina."

Conversely, every girl I've ever been attracted to, I'd much rather be just friends with them than be all "sex or GTFO". Then again maybe I'm just a freak for being attracted to girls who actually have personalities.

 

[LilithSlave]

Being someone's friend is a wonderful thing, not a demotion. And acting like being a woman's friend is the ultimate insult for a man paints men far too slutty.

And not accepting when someone only views you as a friend, or not sexually, is the mark of a stalker, manipulator, and sometimes a rapist.

Being someone's friend is not a bad thing. And women are not an object of conquest.

There's a very simple solution to simply being someone's friend instead of their lover: get over it.

 

[Silent Anima]

It's just a 'nice' way to say they're not into you. There isn't some magical point of no return that makes it impossible to be with a girl after becoming too good a friend to her. In fact, that's exactly what you're supposed to do with your significant other: be really good friends with them. Hell, girlfriend and boyfriend have the word 'friend' in the damn title! I've never been told that "I'm like a brother" to a female friend of mine. I was actually told I'm one of the few who isn't like a brother to them. This being said, I'm only interested in girls if I would enjoy talking to and hanging out with. Sex doesn't come as too high a priority. Remember men, personality is where it's at.

 

[Captain_Fantastic]

well the one memorable friendzone was a girl who was dating a close friend at the time i was interested in her but i got a text one night saying how her father thought we were dating and she continued to say i was too much like a brother to her and i figured i may as well take what i can get and took the position of "older brother" to heart

and im now her closest guy friend, i know more about her and have been around her longer than any of her past boyfriends,i also know enough about her that i wouldnt take a chance to date her because of pure incompatibility, and finally she prefers me as a Prom date over her current boyfriend,

though on a surprisingly unrelated note i am still single and fairly bitter over being single

 

[JesterRaiin]

No; I'm suggesting that romantic relationships must by definition be consensual. Moving a relationship in a direction that one of the participants does not want is not better for anyone.

Nope. Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

When someone is dragged into a sexual relationship they do not want, we call that "rape".

Just saying.

I said "joint events", you thought about "rape". Interesting. Iiiiiiiiiinteresting indeed.

You don't understand what a 'joint event' would be in a sexual relationship? Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting.

I just don't think that it's the best choice of arguments. First thing that comes to mind after mentioning "joint operations" ? Rape ? I guess that's why "friend zone" was invented in first place.

Being someone's friend is a wonderful thing, not a demotion. And acting like being a woman's friend is the ultimate insult for a man paints men far too slutty.

Concept of "friend zone" as i understand it is all about "i wanted a girl but was rejected". This topic isn't about being friend with other gender. Sorry.

I'm almost certain that the "Friend Zone" as a negative concept was invented entirely by Nice Guys.

It's possible. We - men - like to harness the unknown, to label things.

It's just a 'nice' way to say they're not into you. There isn't some magical point of no return that makes it impossible to be with a girl after becoming too good a friend to her. In fact, that's exactly what you're supposed to do with your significant other: be really good friends with them. Hell, girlfriend and boyfriend have the word 'friend' in the damn title! I've never been told that "I'm like a brother" to a female friend of mine. I was actually told I'm one of the few who isn't like a brother to them. This being said, I'm only interested in girls if I would enjoy talking to and hanging out with. Sex doesn't come as too high a priority. Remember men, personality is where it's at.

I'm full of stories about people who faced with rejection tried their best to win, ahem, "the heart and affection". And succeeded. Not everyone of course, still, my point stands and is valid : it's better to try change "his/her" mind than simply accept rejection.

------------
...thanx for the answers guys. I got them, my puzzles are a little closer to completion.

 

[JesterRaiin]

No; I'm suggesting that romantic relationships must by definition be consensual. Moving a relationship in a direction that one of the participants does not want is not better for anyone.

Nope. Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

When someone is dragged into a sexual relationship they do not want, we call that "rape".

Just saying.

I said "joint events", you thought about "rape". Interesting. Iiiiiiiiiinteresting indeed.

You don't understand what a 'joint event' would be in a sexual relationship? Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinteresting.

I just don't think that it's the best choice of arguments. First thing that comes to mind after mentioning "joint operations" ? Rape ? I guess that's why "friend zone" was invented in first place.

You're pretty slow.

I hear that a lot. Be my guest, one more time doesn't make any difference.

It was more "Joint operations.... This is a thread about relationships... Joint operations + relationships...." Now what do you think that equals?

I'm not sure about the state of your mind but mine won't answer "rape" to that question :

Haven't you ever participated in successfull joint events with people practically dragged into cooperation ?

 

[Rednog]

My stance on the friend zone is as follow, if the friend zone gets dropped on you and you're romantically interested, back pedal as fast as you can. Just server the head of that beast asap. Just stop the contact, don't be cold and avoid her like the plague, but turn her into one of those casual acquaintances that you see around work/school/whatever you say hi, quick pleasantries and then move on, no real contact outside of that.
It is far better for you to rip that band-aid off as soon as possible and by yourself than dealing with the false hope that some guys get in the friend zone.
Trust for most cases it is for the best.

And seriously girls, cut that shit out, you aren't being easy on his feelings, you're just mentally extending the chase for him. Just make it clear off the bat.

I remember my ex had a problem of this guy who she stuck into the friend zone, and I'd always hear her b*tch and moan about how he was such a pest and she was just sick of being around him. Eventually we were going out and it still went on, and she would randomly go to hang with him because she's like that's what friends do, I don't want to be hard on his feelings. I heard from one of his friends that the guy thought he had a chance at "winning her over" from me. I told my ex and I was like you really need to just end these ties with him, you're constantly complaining and miserable being around him.
She didn't, kept complaining, I eventually dumped her because it got to the point where it started to grate on my own nerves.