Question of the Day, October 12, 2010

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Sonic Doctor

Time Lord / Whack-A-Newbie!
Jan 9, 2010
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The Jakeinator said:
Sonic Doctor said:
The Jakeinator said:
Sounds interesting. So sure, why not? Nothing like a subtle twist to get the nerds whining, but continue watching.
I am a huge Doctor Who nerd and I would quit watching if they did change him into a woman, it would break canon and instantly make the show unwatchable.
How so?
As I said it is against canon. In the old series, there were male and female time lords. So it wouldn't make sense for a male to become female.

The idea back then was immediately shot down, because it was against canon. The only reason the idea was truly made plausible, was by the writing of Russell T. Davies, who brought the show back to television in 2004. The only good thing he did was bring the show back. Other than that he is an idiot when it comes to writing, he has the mentality that he can write his own canon into the show. In the past he has actually insulted the fans of the show for being fans.

The part that he stupidly added, was when Eccleston's Doctor regenerated into Tennant's Doctor. He had Eccleston's Doctor tell Rose that when time lords regenerate, they could regenerate into anything. That is obviously against canon, The Doctor can only regenerate into a man that looks human, but is a time lord.
 

Feylynn

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Feb 16, 2010
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I voted no, I don't know why, it's a weird standard but whatever. I just like the Doctor Male.
Some people don't think gender has an effect on character but it does. It automatically and entirely rewires every interpretation of him demanding much different writing taken into account.

But beyond that I think it might possibly be interesting if done right. I'm just not confident in those chances and happy with where he is. If fan outcry was largely in favor I guess that's one thing but if it could hurt the show with the backlash then it shouldn't be risked.

So in closing, I'll step that no up to an "either way if you are committed to making it just as good as the rest. But they should do it testing the water. Rather then properly regenerated perhaps perhaps there was an issue that made him reform a her and is rather confused, test it out a short season I guess, Doctor Who is all about the crazy."
 

DalekJaas

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Dec 3, 2008
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Amnestic said:
GothmogII said:
Wait...what's the 'good reason' the Doctor is always male? I'd love if someone could explain that one to me. ;)
Tradition. To me, it'd be like having the next Bond be female. Jane Bond or something.

It's just...no.
I agree with you, there is just no reason to suddenly change his gender. Even though the entire premise of the show is ridiculous, that would be a bit to ridiculous for me.
 

DalekJaas

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Dec 3, 2008
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Sonic Doctor said:
The Jakeinator said:
Sonic Doctor said:
The Jakeinator said:
Sounds interesting. So sure, why not? Nothing like a subtle twist to get the nerds whining, but continue watching.
I am a huge Doctor Who nerd and I would quit watching if they did change him into a woman, it would break canon and instantly make the show unwatchable.
How so?
As I said it is against canon. In the old series, there were male and female time lords. So it wouldn't make sense for a male to become female.

The idea back then was immediately shot down, because it was against canon. The only reason the idea was truly made plausible, was by the writing of Russell T. Davies, who brought the show back to television in 2004. The only good thing he did was bring the show back. Other than that he is an idiot when it comes to writing, he has the mentality that he can write his own canon into the show. In the past he has actually insulted the fans of the show for being fans.

The part that he stupidly added, was when Eccleston's Doctor regenerated into Tennant's Doctor. He had Eccleston's Doctor tell Rose that when time lords regenerate, they could regenerate into anything. That is obviously against canon, The Doctor can only regenerate into a man that looks human, but is a time lord.
Couldn't have put it better, I hated R.T.D not just for his attitude but for the crappy season finales he wrote.

Timelords aren't salmon, they don't change gender, all regeneration does is repair his cells and cause them to change his appearance, it isn't a sex change device.
 

BlindChance

Librarian
Sep 8, 2009
442
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For those with more Dr. Fu (see what I did there?) than me, a few questions:

Are Time Lords/Ladies gendered or sexed? My understanding was that they were an alien species, so why must any actual gender exist for them? What is the 'canon' on this? (From reading this thread, I get the sense that there's in canon evidence for both time lords switching between genders or being fixed with one.)

And secondly, what about a black doctor? Could Dr. Who come back as another race?

Genuinely curious on both. I don't know so much on the Dr.
 

Sonic Doctor

Time Lord / Whack-A-Newbie!
Jan 9, 2010
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DalekJaas said:
Couldn't have put it better, I hated R.T.D not just for his attitude but for the crappy season finales he wrote.

Timelords aren't salmon, they don't change gender, all regeneration does is repair his cells and cause them to change his appearance, it isn't a sex change device.
Now I actually liked the Davies finales. Not that I am giving him credit, it is because Eccleston and Tennant's acting is what made them great for me.

In all seriousness, I was expecting something great for Matt Smith's two part finale, since the series has been taken over by Moffat, but that finale was just wrong. The plot was flowing nicely until then. I can't remember if it was Moffat that wrote that finale, but if it was, someone must have slipped some drugs into his coffee when he wrote them. I'm not going to spoil it for people that haven't watched it, I will just say that how The Doctor escaped death this time, was just silly and not believable. I have to say the ways that Tennant's Doctor survived Davies' finales were actually much more believable. Yes it is fiction, but there is fiction with reason and unreasonable fiction.

BlindChance said:
For those with more Dr. Fu (see what I did there?) than me, a few questions:

Are Time Lords/Ladies gendered or sexed? My understanding was that they were an alien species, so why must any actual gender exist for them? What is the 'canon' on this? (From reading this thread, I get the sense that there's in canon evidence for both time lords switching between genders or being fixed with one.)

And secondly, what about a black doctor? Could Dr. Who come back as another race?

Genuinely curious on both. I don't know so much on the Dr.
Yes there are male and female time lords it has be specifically shown in the old series and Tennant's last episodes as The Doctor in the new series. The Doctor was actually married once to a female time lord. And before that, if you go back to the beginning in 1963, The Doctor's first main companion is a girl that is his granddaughter, at least that is the consensus, since the whole time she was around she always called him grandfather.

I don't know where you would get that there is evidence that time lords can change gender, because there is none. This is an idea brought up by people that think canon can be changed.

On the race thing, even that I would object to. On a matter of genetics, The Doctor has always been white, in canon there would be no reason for him to change that way. Really thinking about it, regeneration is basically part of a time lord's aging process, because not all time lords died because of getting hurt, some probably died of old age in one regeneration and then moved to the next regeneration. In the human aging process, races don't changed to the color of another race when they get older. The idea with time lords is that they look human but they aren't, they have two hearts, can regenerate 12 times, so they have 13 lifetimes, and as children they are pretty much raised to be geniuses.

The Jakeinator said:
Okay.

But I still think the idea of a female Doctor would be nifty. I only watch it every now and again, so I wouldn't know Doctor Who inside out, as long as the series keeps catching my attention, ill continue watching.
In a way we do have that, if you watch the episode, The Doctor's Daughter. Against his will, he gets genetically cloned, and out of the machine pops a young woman. The machine gives her military training, and the Doctor tries to explain that out of her, by telling her what a time lord really is.

Don't worry, I didn't explain the main plot of the story, interestingly enough that is just a side plot.
 

CrystalShadow

don't upset the insane catgirl
Apr 11, 2009
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gamepopper101 said:
Nah, it wouldn't make sense, since there have been female time lords in the old series which clearly indicate Time Lords have genders.
Right, people keep repeating this as some kind of truism, yet it means nothing in that sense.

Perhaps being transsexual myself gives me an unusual perspective on this matter, but consider this:

How does the existence of Male (time Lords), and female (time Ladies) prove anything in this instance?

All this tells us is that at any given moment the species (Whatever you want to call it) has at least 2 genders.

However, since regeneration causes significant physical changes, there's every possibility that it could cause a sex change as well.

Would this mess up the time lord/lady bit?

Not really. Just because the same person can change from being male to female, or vice-versa, doesn't change the fact that you have both.

So evidence of having two sexes doesn't prove one way or the other whether regeneration can cause a sex change or not.

(after all, if you see a time lord and a time lady together, you can't infer from that whether either have changed their sex at any point in the past or not.)
 

Engarde

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Jul 24, 2010
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Doctor Panda said:
I think that you'd run into a lot of problems, so i'm voting no. The biggest problem? Like 75% of the show's current audience are nerdy girls who want to bed the various incarnations of the doctor.
And nerdy boys who want to bed the various incarnations of the doctor......... I said nothing!
 

BlindChance

Librarian
Sep 8, 2009
442
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Sonic Doctor said:
I don't know where you would get that there is evidence that time lords can change gender, because there is none. This is an idea brought up by people that think canon can be changed.

..

On the race thing, even that I would object to.
Fair enough.

Granted, your answers sadden me, but I'll just accept Dr. Who isn't, and never will be, my thing.
 

Sylocat

Sci-Fi & Shakespeare
Nov 13, 2007
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Azuaron said:
First, Time Lady. Lord -> Lady, Master -> Mistress.\
Except there are female Time Lords who are explicitly identified as Time Lords.
 

Dorian6

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Apr 3, 2009
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I'm not sure what the established cannon is surrounding a Time Lord's gender in regards to regeneration.

I don't suppose I'd be completely against the idea, but I would have assumed that a male Time Lord would be male throughout each of his regenerations.
 

Dorian6

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Apr 3, 2009
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Engarde said:
Doctor Panda said:
I think that you'd run into a lot of problems, so i'm voting no. The biggest problem? Like 75% of the show's current audience are nerdy girls who want to bed the various incarnations of the doctor.
And nerdy boys who want to bed the various incarnations of the doctor......... I said nothing!
I'm a Captain Jack man myself
 

Ben Legend

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Apr 16, 2009
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The Doctor has always been male, for 10 actors in fact. Having him turn female would spoil it completely.

I think to many people would like to play the 'sexist card' if the head of bbc said the doctor 'had' to be portrayed by a male actor.
 

VondeVon

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Dec 30, 2009
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Gender isn't an issue for me - it's the actor (and writers, I guess). I stopped watching Dr Who with the latest Doctor because he was ugly and annoying but even before THAT, the series had lost its fresh edge and had gotten repetitive and tired. If I had a dollar for every time The Doctor did his "I'm so sorry" routine...
 

Azuaron

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Mar 17, 2010
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Sylocat said:
Azuaron said:
First, Time Lady. Lord -> Lady, Master -> Mistress.
Except there are female Time Lords who are explicitly identified as Time Lords.
Yes, but I'm grammar Nazi-ing here, not being Doctor Who accurate.
 

TimeLord75

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Sep 3, 2009
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Hell to the no. The Doctor is a Time Lord; it's already been established in continuity that there are Time Ladies, i.e., Romana (aka Fred). Besides which, I'm pretty sure, given that he's already used 10 of his possible 12 regenerations and hasn't been female ONCE, odds are against it happening now.

Please don't misunderstand: I am by no means any sort of misogynist. Most of my favorite characters in fiction are female. I love nothing more than a strong feminine character. The Doctor, however...his most basic nature is something masculine. If Doctor Who had launched back in '63 with a Time Lady instead of a Time Lord, I'd likely be every bit as much of a fan as I am now. Changing the Doctor into a woman would feel, to me, like a betrayal of all existing canon. Note that I've nothing to base this feeling on, and it's never been stated that Gallifreyans can't "jump the fence", as it were. It's just...a feeling, like I said. "Can't you feel it, Mel? Stupid bullsh*t...there's stupid bullsh*t in this idea..." (apologies to the oft-maligned Colin Baker)
 

TimeLord75

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Sep 3, 2009
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Dorian6 said:
I'm not sure what the established cannon is surrounding a Time Lord's gender in regards to regeneration.
There isn't any, which is the problem. The first (and only, to the best of my knowledge) time it was addressed was in the finale of "The End of Time, Part II", in the immediate aftermath of the Doctor's regeneration. He was giving his new appearance a rapid once-over when he discovered his (ridiculous) hair, and exclaimed with much dismay, "I'm a girl!" He then found his Adam's apple and reassured himself that he was, in fact, still male.

Could it happen? Theoretically, yes. (Thank god RTD isn't still running the show, otherwise it might be seriously considered.) I'm hoping it doesn't. I'd hate to have to throw away 30 years of dedicated fandom.