Rage: Get over it.

[viranimus]

I, humbly so.
Tell you all to build a bridge and get over it. You are likely going to damage a pristine triple A titles reputation and profits because you think you're being treated unfairly.
Are you that misinformed?

With all due respect.... No. I wont get over it. Will I damage a repuation of games that are doing this? You absolutely better believe I will. You ask if the people pissed off at this are misinformed, yet your completely ignoring why people are up in arms about this.

It is so astronomically simple.

If you give them an inch they will take a mile. Thats it, right there. Its also the reason why people say "Freedom isnt free, it costs eternal vigilance"

Every time something like this comes up and it is not met with outrage and protest it creates a precedent. These precedents add up. If you want to see how quickly it works. In less than a decade we have seen Downloadable content move from consisting of fan made mods and patches for free on PC games, to it being an inevitability for console games for monetary exchange. It did not happen over night, but now today we have things like Day 1 DLC (which honestly I still dont have a problem with) and the greater problem of publishers actively trying to nickle and dime you to death. Why is that? Because a whole bunch of twats said "I want the new halo map packs!!!!1111!!!"

Just in the last year. We have seen EA test their pinky toe with Project 10$ and now that is an advent that honestly no customer wants (Dont even try to tell me that people willingly WANT to pay extra for something when they do not have to, if they already have it anyway)but it is now practically a standard on EA games and it is spreading like wildfire.

So I have to say that this is a fight that needs to be fought. Far too long the ignorant and complacent have continually allowed these publishers to rack up precedent after precedent, each one milking more and more out of its customers. These are the exact same type of business practices that gave birth to antitrust laws.

You know I am truly sorry if it bothers you to hear people speaking up on this issue, but the real reason why we have people speaking up about this is because we have sat idly by for far too long and let this problem grow to elephant sized proportions.Being quiet about this, did not make the problem go away, there is no time left sit down and shut up and we would not have to raise our voices in protest had people had shown a little more sense and restraint with their money in the first place.

So I respect you for voicing your request but I apologize because this is a request for which I simply cannot abide, and thankfully I am not the only one.

Edit: Look I get that the cut in RAGE is not even really a cut at all. But at the same time you have to understand that in many cases events can end up adversely effecting unrelated things in ways you can never hope to predict. After letting so many little ones slide, at what point do you try to put on the breaks>?

 

[Saulkar]

I don't really care about Developers adding bonus content for any reason really, but it has to be that, bonus content. If I still have to download it onto my PC, but am not allowed to access it, then they can kiss my purchase goodbye.

I second this. I can understand incentives to purchase new but I will never support locking portions of the game itself out, or even portions of the game already on the disk that you have to pay for separately for that matter.

 

[NotSoLoneWanderer]

Things like this really aren't fair to offline gamers. Its perfectly reasonable to buy an expensive console and a $60 game and expect all the content of said game. DLC is ok as long as it is available on disk.

 

[Gauntes]

is it weird that I haven't even heard of this game till now?

 

[Phishfood]

The reason people are mad is not that this instance is so bad. Its the principle. What if this works and next time they say "OK, people who buy used can't save their game. Or reload their weapon."

Second hand bookshops don't tear out a random chapter. Second hand DVDs have just as many extras as new. Why is the games industry the only one that feels the need to kill second hand sales?

If I've bought something I demand the right to sell it on.


Having said that, rage looks cool I probably will be buying it.

 

[Vault101]

Thank you! Also, I gota ask, how many people actually buy used games? I hardly know anyone who buys used games, or hard copies in general.

really?

if we are talking console I notice most game retailers (at least here) have a used game section just as big as the regular section, anyway...its cheaper obviously and somtimes oyu cant find a copy of a lsightly older game...plus I prefer it to the "platinum" covers...looks nicer

as for PC...well I still buy hard copies

anyway Im still very interesed in rage

 

[Lyri]

I second this. I can understand incentives to purchase new but I will never support locking portions of the game itself out, or even portions of the game already on the disk that you have to pay for separately for that matter.

Read the quote in the first post, you have to download it.

snip

I'm over here, playing the worlds smallest violin.

Punishing a gaming company because they give people who buy new a small, harmless bonus that people who buy used have to purchase as DLC?
It's a reasonable and harmless way to combat used sales of their game and as I stated before, if you don't have an internet connection running through your console you're not going to be able to unlock it anyway.

Once upon a time we used to love gaming companies giving away goodies but now unless it comes shitting a golden egg, we don't want it.

But let me pull you up here.

Just in the last year. We have seen EA test their pinky toe with Project 10$ and now that is an advent that honestly no customer wants (Dont even try to tell me that people willingly WANT to pay extra for something when they do not have to, if they already have it anyway)

Except that system is actually working, which is the hilarious part to this whole subject. People are actually buying it.
Clearly people don't mind unlocking content on the disc with their own money, personally I think it's a little much but then again I don't own a console and I've never come across such DLC.
However my opinion on the matter isn't on trial, the point is the system works and they're going to use it.

Besides, why can't a developer use the extra space on their disc and fill it with extra content you can unlock with a paid for code?
Consoles these days have their own inbuilt storage devices, this way will save you precious space and you won't have to buy extra or delete older content from other titles.
I for one can see a plus side to it.

My gripe with this whole issue is about the misinformation of the situation, not about what people do with their money.
People are responding like RAGE is cutting out single player entirely because you bought a used copy. In fact it's nothing like that.

Edit: Look I get that the cut in RAGE is not even really a cut at all. But at the same time you have to understand that in many cases events can end up adversely effecting unrelated things in ways you can never hope to predict. After letting so many little ones slide, at what point do you try to put on the breaks?

When they're worth putting on. You're doing damage to your cause by waving a banner over a title that has cut nothing and has done nothing that you even said your against.
Your whole post is clogging up the common sense I was trying to provide. As I just stated, this is about misinformation and not about developers trying to get money.

But hey, you proved my point.

 

[Doclector]

See, I think the second problem is a major "screw you". If for whatever reason you can't connect to the Internet, you would effectively be entitled to content that you can't have. Most times, it isn't a problem because the extra content is multiplayer: you wouldn't be able to access it anyway, and if you buy a game without an Internet connnection, you probably don't care, but you do care about single player, and just cutting out the content is almost theft. The sewers? Sounds like a pretty big component to me.

I'm probably going to a uni that blocks xbox live soon, so I won't be buying rage because I'll always have one piece of the single player that, if I bought it new, I'd have a right to, but can't access.

 

[Aprilgold]

You know what, I wrote something for this, but I now only have to quote one person to make my point for me, and better then I fucking could.

I, humbly so.
Tell you all to build a bridge and get over it. You are likely going to damage a pristine triple A titles reputation and profits because you think you're being treated unfairly.
Are you that misinformed?

With all due respect.... No. I wont get over it. Will I damage a repuation of games that are doing this? You absolutely better believe I will. You ask if the people pissed off at this are misinformed, yet your completely ignoring why people are up in arms about this.

It is so astronomically simple.

If you give them an inch they will take a mile. Thats it, right there. Its also the reason why people say "Freedom isnt free, it costs eternal vigilance"

Every time something like this comes up and it is not met with outrage and protest it creates a precedent. These precedents add up. If you want to see how quickly it works. In less than a decade we have seen Downloadable content move from consisting of fan made mods and patches for free on PC games, to it being an inevitability for console games for monetary exchange. It did not happen over night, but now today we have things like Day 1 DLC (which honestly I still dont have a problem with) and the greater problem of publishers actively trying to nickle and dime you to death. Why is that? Because a whole bunch of twats said "I want the new halo map packs!!!!1111!!!"

Just in the last year. We have seen EA test their pinky toe with Project 10$ and now that is an advent that honestly no customer wants (Dont even try to tell me that people willingly WANT to pay extra for something when they do not have to, if they already have it anyway)but it is now practically a standard on EA games and it is spreading like wildfire.

So I have to say that this is a fight that needs to be fought. Far too long the ignorant and complacent have continually allowed these publishers to rack up precedent after precedent, each one milking more and more out of its customers. These are the exact same type of business practices that gave birth to antitrust laws.

You know I am truly sorry if it bothers you to hear people speaking up on this issue, but the real reason why we have people speaking up about this is because we have sat idly by for far too long and let this problem grow to elephant sized proportions.Being quiet about this, did not make the problem go away, there is no time left sit down and shut up and we would not have to raise our voices in protest had people had shown a little more sense and restraint with their money in the first place.

So I respect you for voicing your request but I apologize because this is a request for which I simply cannot abide, and thankfully I am not the only one.

Edit: Look I get that the cut in RAGE is not even really a cut at all. But at the same time you have to understand that in many cases events can end up adversely effecting unrelated things in ways you can never hope to predict. After letting so many little ones slide, at what point do you try to put on the breaks>?

Basically, this, thank you man, that is some great writing, and so true.

<edit: Un-quoted Lyri, sorry about that, read that wrong.
Anyways, again, this is punishment, and if it sells, its going to be WAY worse tomorrow. Soon, if this goes well, you won't be able to save in certain areas and would have to talk to the king to save again, and hes in farthest corner of the map. Or to where you have to play on the pitiful easiest mode, or you have half the game your not allowed to use. Kill it before it grows.>

 

[Nexus4]

Thank you! Also, I gota ask, how many people actually buy used games? I hardly know anyone who buys used games, or hard copies in general.

Me because new games cost over $100 AUD here. That is also considering that our currency is stronger than the Americans.

 

[Porygon-2000]

Oh. I was thinking you were talking about a different topic, like the behavioural patterns of annoyed fanboys, or the old music show that used to be on the ABC, or something else.

But yeah, a lack of DLC does not spell deal-breaker to me, at all.

 

[Lyri]

The reason people are mad is not that this instance is so bad. Its the principle. What if this works and next time they say "OK, people who buy used can't save their game. Or reload their weapon."

Second hand bookshops don't tear out a random chapter. Second hand DVDs have just as many extras as new. Why is the games industry the only one that feels the need to kill second hand sales?

If I've bought something I demand the right to sell it on.


Having said that, rage looks cool I probably will be buying it.

If they take out key features like that then it becomes unplayable, gross exaggeration doesn't help your point.
When you buy second hand anything you have to be prepared for the fact that it may not work and won't be as new.
If I bought a second hand copy of the Elder Scrolls: Morrowind GOTY edition would I receive the paper map or the manual? Probably not, it's second hand.

However you're actually viewing this as a punishment, it isn't. It's a small incentive to buy new, this is no worse than anything else others have done.
You haven't lost the right to resell an item, it just means the bonus you got for buying it new will not be given to the guy who got it for $20 unless he pays another $5-10 which is still cheaper.

Things like this really aren't fair to offline gamers. Its perfectly reasonable to buy an expensive console and a $60 game and expect all the content of said game. DLC is ok as long as it is available on disk.

It sucks for you guys to be sure, however that tunnel system isn't on the disk I assume. You have to download it once you purchase the game.
As I quoted before one of the devs says the whole thing is pretty out of the way anyhow, so most people don't get to see it or use it.

 

[viranimus]

snip

This thread is about misinformation and people not reading to see the truth when it's written in front of you.
Your agenda is noted and ignored but thank you for proving my point.

In the interest of not writing another WoT I will simply say to you very good,such is your opinion and I thank you for proving my point as well by ignoring the issue as if this specific nuance is not directly tied into the heart of the greater issue. Your cry to combat ignorance doesnt really work if you ignore elements of what your trying to discuss

 

[Lyri]

See, I think the second problem is a major "screw you". If for whatever reason you can't connect to the Internet, you would effectively be entitled to content that you can't have. Most times, it isn't a problem because the extra content is multiplayer: you wouldn't be able to access it anyway, and if you buy a game without an Internet connnection, you probably don't care, but you do care about single player, and just cutting out the content is almost theft. The sewers? Sounds like a pretty big component to me.

I'm probably going to a uni that blocks xbox live soon, so I won't be buying rage because I'll always have one piece of the single player that, if I bought it new, I'd have a right to, but can't access.

Yeah I can see you're point but I think you're blowing it out of the water a little. Let me re quote something for you.

When asked about the section that would be cut for aftermarket buyers, Willits said, "Most people never even see it. I can tell you, some people will buy Rage, download that, and still never set foot in those things. They just won't. I think that's fair. It's cool. It's outside the main path. We're not detracting from anything. But I know some consumers, when you can't avoid it, then you get a little touchy subject." Later, in the same interview, he confirmed that while Rage will include its own brand of online pass, it won't include always-on DRM. That doesn't mean we won't see it in other games id Software works on in the future, however, as he did go on to champion its use.

It honestly doesn't sound like anything major, more like a fast travel system or possibly a few missions?
Really nothing major that I would deny myself a game for.

True story; I bought ME2 with the DLC and I still haven't used my Cerberus Network key. I enjoyed the game just fine and dandy.

 

[Bearjing]

The reason people are mad is not that this instance is so bad. Its the principle. What if this works and next time they say "OK, people who buy used can't save their game. Or reload their weapon."

Second hand bookshops don't tear out a random chapter. Second hand DVDs have just as many extras as new. Why is the games industry the only one that feels the need to kill second hand sales?

If I've bought something I demand the right to sell it on.


Having said that, rage looks cool I probably will be buying it.

It might just be me and the town i live in, but where the hell do you even buy second hand books and dvds? I've never seen a barns and nobles sell second hand books nor a suncoast sell second hand dvds, the point seems moot to me since every game store i have ever been in has a used game section while other media stores don't.

 

[Hamish Durie]

Thank you! Also, I gota ask, how many people actually buy used games? I hardly know anyone who buys used games, or hard copies in general.

new $110

used $60

yeah I buy a few used

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Thank you! Also, I gota ask, how many people actually buy used games? I hardly know anyone who buys used games, or hard copies in general.

I buy used console games when they're more than 3 years old. On account of old games are sweet.

 

[scott91575]

This is a somewhat simplistic viewpoint. I have stated in some of these threads the economics behind this, and how it affects the buyers and sellers of used games. This tactic most affects the person that buys the title retail and then sells it later. The publisher has in essence devalued your product, and lowers it's value on the open market. I am not sure I want to rehash all the supply and demand points I have made. Yet the person most affected by this is the person that buys a title retail and then looks to sell it on the used market.

Now the sewers may turn out to be close to worthless, or they may be worth a bunch in the used market. I am not sure. Let's say the overall demand for them is worth $5 (1/2 of the people are willing to pay the extra $10 for it, the other half do not). That $5 is directly subtracted from what you are able to sell the game for vs. the game with full content. So in essence, if you sell your games on the used market, this is just like increasing the price of the game but in a roundabout way without the retail buyer noticing.