Rage: Get over it.

[CountryMike]

Things like this really aren't fair to offline gamers. Its perfectly reasonable to buy an expensive console and a $60 game and expect all the content of said game. DLC is ok as long as it is available on disk.

It's 2011. Who doesn't have internet? It's as strange as having no running water or electricity.

Yeah it's strange but i just got it back a few weeks ago. Xbox live cards are expensive when your saving up for things and don't get allowance.

You only need live gold to play online games. You don't need it to download DLC

 

[luckshotpro]

I buy used games sometimes at this little local store. They had a used Mortal Kombat 2 weeks after release for $35

 

[aba1]

Thank you! Also, I gota ask, how many people actually buy used games? I hardly know anyone who buys used games, or hard copies in general.

I almost exclusivly buy used and exclusivly buy hard copys. I dont like that the job market is shrinking and the population is growing it worries me that the in the future my children will be forced to live on the street because things are simply to simple so there are no jobs. So I like to buy things in such a way that I support as many people as possible if I buy the hard copy I support the printing company as well as the plastic company making the case and the disk companys and lastly the dev then I am supporting the store I bought it from and the shipping company that brought the games to the store so all in all I am helping save around 7 differnt companys by not directly downloading.

 

[FalloutJack]

Rage: Get over it.

Make me.

Here's the problem. The whole thing is still backwards, doing it wrong, jumping through hoops and doing loop-de-loops without reason. Your explanation is all nice and dandy, but you shouldn't have to make it because they shouldn't have to DO it. Ya follow? This is never going to be a step in the right direction. It's always going to set a bad precident, the wrong message, and get people pissed.

 

[Yopaz]

Well, where does it stop?

Think of it this way.
If you sell your car onto someone else, thus it becoming second hand; does the car manufacturer have the right to take the seats away from the recipient just because in their point of view, they're losing profit?
From your perspective, they do.
It'll apply for other things too if this kind of thing continues such as maybe, scenes from movies?
I think adding content rather than taking away is a better incentive to buy brand new.

Aaah, never get tired of the car analogy. When you buy a new car you get a 5 year warranty on it. All problems that aren't connected to things you have done wrong are covered by this. If you buy a car used you're only protected against preexisting conditions that weren't informed about. So when you buy a new car you do actually pay for 5 years of support. When you need to replace a part you need to get a part manufactured by that dealer or someone who is licensed to make parts for the car. Newer cars require more specific cars than older so you can't use any part from any kind of car anymore. So a huuuuge difference here: a car is not a one time payment, video games are. A car manufacturer can suddenly cash in for a car sold 15 years ago or more.

 

[seraphy]

I have to agree, people are way overreacting to this. I think that its not really that big of a deal. Its not like important story stuff is being left out. It is just side missions, no different than the project 10 dollar stuff that EA is doing with most of its games.

While I agree. This is sort of thing gamers should not support or accept, even though this is small thing, these sort of things might lead to worse crap later.

Seriously what is wrong with developers, they are trying to piss me off with these things now more than ever.

Bethesda being douche and suing Mojang, Blizzard and their stupid internet connection thing on a single player game. And now this, not that I ever intended to buy this game. I had every intention to buy other two thought.

I can't buy any games anymore soon, since everyone in the game industry seems to have become some sort of moron.

 

[Yopaz]

Cerberus network comes free with the purchase of a new game.
Sewers come free with the purchase of a new game.
Cerberus network can be bought as a dlc if you bought the game used.
The sewers can be bought as dlc if you bought the game used.
Cerberus Netowrk activation gives you 2 extra missions + some weapons.
The sewers give you one new place to explore.

So far they're not very different in my opinion. They're both extra content that you can buy if you bought the game used,

Also, do you blame developers for doing this?
If a game doesn't sell well enough there wont be a sequel. Now if 30% of the sales were second hand sales that cut into 30% of the sales. So let's say 100 million copies has to be sold for the game to get a sequel. Let's say the game sells 120 million copies. According to the publisher's statistics that means the game sold 84 million copies. Thus no release.

Also keep in mind this extreme scenario: All GameStops go bankrupt. Can Developers still make games? Yes.
All developers go bankrupt. Can GameStop still sell games? For a time, yes, but on a long term view, no they can't.
If developers suffer, GameStop suffers. If GameStop suffers developers earn more money.
Now, which party's suffering creates the most suffering and which party could you live without?

Have to stop you there at the bolded part. I have a monthly budget for computer games. The simplistic representation is

wage - bills = games budget*.

Lets say in a given month my games budget
comes to £50. So, I can either buy 1 game new or 2 games second hand. Therefore my 2 second hand purchases do not equal 2 lost sales. Additionally, whomever I bought the 2 second hand games from now has £50 they can spend on a new game. Thats probably WHY they were selling second hand in the first place.

To be honest, fuck gamestop. Brick and mortar stores dedicated to games are doomed. Lets kill em and be done. As I said above, my argument is more that this ALSO stops me lending or gifting this game and it is liable to escalate. Sure, now its one or two missions that you lose second hand. What is the line? are you going to be happy when a game loses 50% of content second hand? what if its 75% and the second hand copy becomes nothing more than a demo? If we don't say no to this trend it will continue and it will escalate.

*and booze and DVD, but that clouds the issue.

You're right. You're totally right. We should stop caring about publishers and developers and only buy used. Game developers and publishers is the least important part of gaming. Every good game has already been made already. I think publishers should cancel all 2011 releases. All other releases for that matter too. We wouldn't have to boycott games then, they would boycott us.

OK, so let's turn off the sarcasm. Do you really think screaming boycott helps? Most of those who scream will buy it anyway. If we again were to say that boycotts were to cut into 30% sales, on top of 30% second hand it would just hurt the developer more. Guess what that would lead to? Claims that they lost sales due to piracy and extreme second hand sales. This would create a DRM that's even more of a pain in the ass than what we got and cutting more content.

Also if you can get the content for free if you buy it new, what's the big fucking deal if you can also get the same content with paying some extra after buying the used one?
Publisher cuts 50% of the content, you buy the game at 50% price and pays to unlock full content. Developers still receive money, you still get the full game.
Also Rage doesn't really remove content. It gives you content for buying it new. New content, not on the disc, just go ahead and download it, it's there, waiting for you. How is that a bad thing? If you buy a pen used, it's fully functional, it even got all the ink left. Will you boycott the pen just because you get an extra ink cartridge if you buy the same pen new?
Seriously, The Escapist screwed up with the name of their article inspiring more Rage than this really needed.
Finally, if your favourite franchise or game didn't get a sequel because there weren't enough sales. Would that mean anything to you? What if the game got a sequel because so many bought dlc.

Now again: Rage does not cut content for used games. Rage gives you extra content for new games. Now repeat that before you even think of answering, if you do decide to reply, tell me how this is any different from any other game that offers free dlc for buying new games.

 

[NotSoLoneWanderer]

Things like this really aren't fair to offline gamers. Its perfectly reasonable to buy an expensive console and a $60 game and expect all the content of said game. DLC is ok as long as it is available on disk.

It's 2011. Who doesn't have internet? It's as strange as having no running water or electricity.

Yeah it's strange but i just got it back a few weeks ago. Xbox live cards are expensive when your saving up for things and don't get allowance.

But i only just got internet back.
You only need live gold to play online games. You don't need it to download DLC

 

[Epona]

I don't see how this has been so surprising to people. It's already been done before [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/93833-Dragon-Age-Comes-With-Free-DLC-Armor].

DA:O wasn't in the project $10 boat, it was a buy the game new and get access to one of the best characters in the game who clearly was supposed to be a part of the vanilla game from the start.

I can't believe people are bitching about losing a little section of a game that takes 22GB of a 360's hard-drive [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.305638-RAGE-Devours-Xbox-360-Hard-Drives]. Surely the 200 or so MB download(I would imagine that is how large the additional section will be) will make all of the difference in your opinion of the game.

Claiming that allowing them to do this would let them do it more is a moot point because this has been happening for a while with EA and it has already started to catch on. You're past the point of stopping it. AAA titles like this will sell well regardless of if you do a petty little rant and attempt a protest, and yet this is likely to continue in the future.

I know, it's like why do they still arrest people for murder when it's been done before? I can't believe murder is against the law since there are so many people in the world and out of all the people only a very small percentage of people get murdered. Why would a small percentage make all the difference in your opinion of the act of murder?

Claiming that allowing people to murder would let them murder more is a moot point because this has been happening for as long as we have been on the planet. We're past the point of stopping it as people are going to murder regardless of if you arrest other people for murder. Murder is likely to continue into the future.

Disclaimer: I do not condone murder or cutting out content to punish used buyer. The point of this post is to show how ridiculous the "it's been done before so it's ok now" argument is.

2 refreshes to get a cpatcha I could read. When is this issue going to be dealt with?

 

[Lyri]

Thank you OP for clarifying what I've been trying to drum into people since this whole argument about Rage started

You're welcome.

snip

Welcome to the world.
Games are a luxury item at best so your situation whilst sucks is just an unfortunate side effect.
If you are looking to support the game though I don't see why you wouldn't purchase the code after buying used because none of your money actually goes to them anyway.

You can't have it both ways.

Make me.

Here's the problem. The whole thing is still backwards, doing it wrong, jumping through hoops and doing loop-de-loops without reason. Your explanation is all nice and dandy, but you shouldn't have to make it because they shouldn't have to DO it. Ya follow? This is never going to be a step in the right direction. It's always going to set a bad precident, the wrong message, and get people pissed.

Why shouldn't they have to make that choice?
In this day and age with the economy as it is any slight on your industry is a bad one. This is just their way of making people think about buying a new copy without suffering an incredible negative experience.

 

[Druss the Legend]

Well, where does it stop?

Think of it this way.
If you sell your car onto someone else, thus it becoming second hand; does the car manufacturer have the right to take the seats away from the recipient just because in their point of view, they're losing profit?
From your perspective, they do.
It'll apply for other things too if this kind of thing continues such as maybe, scenes from movies?
I think adding content rather than taking away is a better incentive to buy brand new.

Aaah, never get tired of the car analogy. When you buy a new car you get a 5 year warranty on it. All problems that aren't connected to things you have done wrong are covered by this. If you buy a car used you're only protected against preexisting conditions that weren't informed about. So when you buy a new car you do actually pay for 5 years of support. When you need to replace a part you need to get a part manufactured by that dealer or someone who is licensed to make parts for the car. Newer cars require more specific cars than older so you can't use any part from any kind of car anymore. So a huuuuge difference here: a car is not a one time payment, video games are. A car manufacturer can suddenly cash in for a car sold 15 years ago or more.

I think you missed the point of what I was getting at, but I appreciate the lesson in car economy.

 

[Yopaz]

I think you missed the point of what I was getting at, but I appreciate the lesson in car economy.

Actually, I think of 5 years of support as a thing they remove when they sell you a used car, so this is spot on. Just like the sewers on Rage the support is something extra. The sewers are an extra area added to purchase of a new one. 5 years of support is an extra service added with the purchase of a new one.
The sewers can be unlocked as an extra area by paying a little extra if you buy it used. Repairs can be bought as an extra service if you bought the car used.

I might miss your point here, but I render your statement invalid in any case. Car dealers DO remove something from those who sell it used.

 

[Druss the Legend]

I think you missed the point of what I was getting at, but I appreciate the lesson in car economy.

Actually, I think of 5 years of support as a thing they remove when they sell you a used car, so this is spot on. Just like the sewers on Rage the support is something extra. The sewers are an extra area added to purchase of a new one. 5 years of support is an extra service added with the purchase of a new one.
The sewers can be unlocked as an extra area by paying a little extra if you buy it used. Repairs can be bought as an extra service if you bought the car used.

I might miss your point here, but I render your statement invalid in any case. Car dealers DO remove something from those who sell it used.

We are straying off topic. I understand what your getting at. But I was merely using cars as a way of showing how stupid this idea is in the physical world, and you completely ignored my movie (digital) example.

My point is that the action taken by ID realms may escalate further into other things(digital and/or physical worlds) and people believe this needs to be stopped now.

Perhaps the developers of Rage could have instead said:
"We are adding content for players who buy new."
Rather than...
"We are taking content away from players who buy used."

I would also like to see your credentials for invalidating my statement(also saying that you might not understand it but are ignoring anyway is a bit ignorant and self-righteous), last I checked there was no such thing as the opinion police.

 

[Yopaz]

I think you missed the point of what I was getting at, but I appreciate the lesson in car economy.

Actually, I think of 5 years of support as a thing they remove when they sell you a used car, so this is spot on. Just like the sewers on Rage the support is something extra. The sewers are an extra area added to purchase of a new one. 5 years of support is an extra service added with the purchase of a new one.
The sewers can be unlocked as an extra area by paying a little extra if you buy it used. Repairs can be bought as an extra service if you bought the car used.

I might miss your point here, but I render your statement invalid in any case. Car dealers DO remove something from those who sell it used.

We are straying off topic. I understand what your getting at. But I was merely using cars as a way of showing how stupid this idea is in the physical world, and you completely ignored my movie (digital) example.

My point is that the action taken by ID realms may escalate further into other things(digital and/or physical worlds) and people believe this needs to be stopped now.

Perhaps the developers of Rage could have instead said:
"We are adding content for players who buy new."
Rather than...
"We are taking content away from players who buy used."

I would also like to see your credentials for invalidating my statement(also saying that you might not understand it but are ignoring anyway is a bit ignorant and self-righteous), last I checked there was no such thing as the opinion police.

OK, so you seem to miss the whole point with Rage. There is an extra area involving sewers. It is not on the disc. It is not connected to the story. It is not unobtainable for those who buy it used. It is just like Alan Wake's extra chapter The Signal except it will be released at the same time as the game. This is just like The Sims 3 giving you a $10 gift certificate when you purchase a new copy of The Sims 3. They do not cut anything out of the game. You have to download it even if you buy a new game. You can buy it and download it if you buy a used game.
What you don't understand is that The Escapist made an article that stated they remove things, but this is all apples and oranges. Seeing as this was never on the disc and you need to download it and you can buy it, they are in fact giving those who buy it new extra content.

Before I move on to why I didn't answer the part about movies. Repeat this:
The Sewers are not on the disc and can be purchased as dlc for those who buy used.

When I quoted your post I had already made quite a lenghty post about used books, used movies and used CDs so I didn't feel like going into that to the same extent.

Movies pull in most of their money with their cinemas and deals with TV companies that broadcast movies on TV. They don't need everyone to buy new because that's not where they earn their money. Some movies also earn money because certain products appear in the movies and work as commercial.

Music pulls in a lot of money when it's broad-casted on radio and TV, both as pure music and as music videos (where music videos can also pull in extra money by advertising). There's also a lot of money to be earned on selling concert tickets and merchandise on concerts pull in loads of money.

This is just a brief part of my original point, but it all builds up to this: A game brings in money only when a new copy is sold. Music and movies bring in almost no money on new copies being sold, but brings in money in several other ways. That is if they don't have dlc, such as Rage, Fallout, Mass Effect, Alan Wake, Tales of Vesperia, Beautiful Katamari, Blue Dragon, Call of Duty, Guitar Hero and the list goes on into eternity.

Books on the other hand does not earn money on second hand sales, do not remove anything when it comes to second hand sales and rarely offers something for a new sale. What is the difference from books and games? The amount of persons involved in making it and the money needed to make it.
To publish a book you need writing utensils (typewriter, computer or pen and paper), Usually 1 author (though some books are written by more than one), 1 editor (more will give mixed signals and confusion which makes the combined effort useless) and lastly one publishing company. The "developer" usually starts doing this in his spare time while working a full time job. When the work is finished (so far no expenses) it gets sent to various publishers who determine if it's good. If it is they contact an editor who helps out making the book ready to be released.
A game on the other hand takes huge crews and an average of 10 millions in development costs.

Now forget the name of the article that is currently the most commented and tell me why what Rage is doing is so bad.