rampant "female characters" threads and the fractured philosophy of feminism

[FieryTrainwreck]

That's just the thing: Women don't know what they want and it extends to media.

I tried not to go there, but c'mon... a philosophy that reliably morphs into whatever makes men appear ignorant/selfish/stupid? Trying to wrap your head around the latest version of feminism feels an awful lot like trying to handle a woman's latest mood swing! /bu-dum tss

Please don't yell at me.

I actually kind of agree with you there (Both of you) Although you may want to phrase it a little better. =P

Yeah, I was hoping the /rimshot would shield me on that one. Pairing the fractured nature of the current feminist idealogy with the stereotypical "instability" of women was definitely a tongue-in-cheek nod to those who find the whole shebang more or less funny.

I'm a female too, although I'm a huge tomboy so I probably don't count as the feministic people you're talking about.

That's the problem - you do count. You women and your slight differences disgust me!

Also I read some of your opening post in The Professors voice.... Dx

You think that's bad? Sometimes I think in his voice...

 

[Carlston]

I normally dismiss most female who claim to be "independent" men do it all the time.
It's called working so much your alone. You pay your own bills and are alone. That's being a adult.Your nothing special nor is it a nod to your gender to make being "alone" a fancy word.
And if your gonna be equal in the good ol work force. Your expected to be competent, alone and all that like everyone else.

I do some what miss a less attractive female main character, but same time not being pretty does not make you a better woman. People are shallow, and we don't want nor buy a 300 lb Twinkies consumer as a bullet time ninja warrior.

 

[Littaly]

I kind of agree with you, once you start discussing what a good female character is, there is just no stopping. Seems there is no way to pull it off right, not even in theory. It seems as long as we have an idea of what is "masculine" and what is "feminine", this is never going to be resolved.

Despite that, I think what's important to remember that writing a good female character is not the same as writing a female character that kicks ass. Samus has a bit more dignity than princess Peach, but as far as character goes she's still as shallow.

The one thing I hear on a regular basis that just baffles me is the criticism towards Sarah Connor in The Terminator. She's a strong woman, but because her main motivation is her son, that somehow means she succumbs to the maternal instinct and somehow that makes her weak. Why can't a female character care about her own damn son? I'd love to hear someone explain it to me because it makes me go haywire every time I hear it.


Gaaah! Why do I even respond to these threads? I just end up confusing myself. And what does it matter when a good videogame characters (regardless of gender) are so underdeveloped to begin with? I should just stop now.

 

[Crashage]

Meryl Silverburgh, anyone?

MGS1 Meryl? Yeah, she's great. Haven't played MGS4 so I don't know whether/ how she has changed. By the way, what do you think about Eva and The Boss (MGS3)?

She's not at all changed I wouldn't say. If anything she's more badass than before. Truthfully thinking about it the MGS franchise has produced some brilliant female characters. Eva and The Boss examples of a character who is a sexy and dangerous but you've got more chance of being shanked than catching them being vulnerable somewhere. We should just throw feminists at MGS, and if they complain about any gratuitous ass shots, we can throw them at MGS4. So much Snake ass >_<

 

[squid5580]

Why haven't us guys started the menimist movement yet? The portayl of men in games is just as bad as it is with women. How about we worry about getting better characters first then we can worry about their sex.

 

[squid5580]

Why haven't us guys started the menimist movement yet? The portayl of men in games is just as bad as it is with women. How about we worry about getting better characters first then we can worry about their sex.

We men don't complain about every little thing, it's obviously not in our nature. It's the reason why we are portrayed as clueless, incompetent idiots on television and in movies...because we let it happen. After 50 years of feminism, we have alot of catching up to do. I am glad that men are finally starting to see that feminism isn't about equality.

Of course we don't complain. Jeezus all that happens when we do we are either called sexist pigs or racists.

 

[galdon2004]

My problem with the generic feminist ideals (or at least the ones I've been exposed to) are that they refuse to acknowledge that men and women are different and instead of trying to be equal they try and be the same, if you get my drift. Some feminists don't follow this rule but most I've met do. They don't try and make men and women equal, they try and make women men.

I've noticed this too. Even worse is when they claim to be better than men if they ever beat a man in anything. Any individual whom trains hard enough can beat any lesser trained individual in any competition. It doesn't prove one gender is better if a woman who trains 30 hours a week in a skill is better than a man who rides on pure talent. 'Cause a man who trains 30 hours a week in the same skill will ALSO be better than the man who rides on pure talent.

I believe the true image of a perfect female embraces what makes her female; her natural beauty, charisma, and grace. Then embraces what makes her unique, her own desires. I hate females who go out of their way to 'prove' something. It makes me question if they are doing what they want; or if they just want to make a statement because they feel obligated to do so. Just as they were once obligated to underachieve, today's society pressures women to be aggressive overachievers with a sort of jealous hostility towards men. Its just unhealthy.

 

[Chemical Alia]

I'd be happy to see more of a variety of female character types portrayed in games. It feels like the problem is when you just have a token female here and there to represent one stereotype or the other. I don't think there's anything wrong with stereotypes, but to have more variety of characters along with your Alyxes and Bayonettas can only serve to make things more interesting.

I believe the true image of a perfect female embraces what makes her female; her natural beauty, charisma, and grace. Then embraces what makes her unique, her own desires.

Not every female is interested in embracing or even possesses these characteristics. It's probably the romanticizing of females by the opposite gender that I find most perplexing.

 

[Free Thinker]

Who cares what feminists think? I doubt they make up a large part of the gaming community, or even support it. They can make as many Alyx Vances or Bayonettas the designers want. As long as the game itself is good, who cares?

 

[omicron1]

The ideal of feminism is to allow women to be themselves - to be women, without relying on outside influence or ideas.

Unfortunately, the way the reality of feminism goes about this is by defining what they think women are, and attempting to apply that archetype to others.

As long as we design characters to appeal to a certain group or viewpoint, rather than being designed in and of themselves, we will lack in strong characters, both male and female. Bayonetta is hypersexualized (undeniably with fanservice as a goal); Alyx is designed to feel "real," but also seems in part to be designed to match the feminist ideal; the Asari from Mass Effect are designed for (human) sex appeal; the list goes on. And when you turn it around and try to make a strong "feminist" figure, you get something equally cardboard, equally fake and unsympathetic. Men are no different; the beef-slab space marine archetype, designed to appeal to our inner jock or the female fan, is just as much an empty shell of a person as any of the rest of these. Heck, the best, most real-feeling male character I can remember in the shorthand is Joker, and he's memorable precisely because he's not an action-hero protagonist.

Perhaps it's time we stopped letting the market define our characters for us? Perhaps we need to kill the Asari, the Mirandas and Jacobs, the faceless representations of movements and audience interests that populate our games. Let a writer make a character, and don't ask him to change one whit about who that character is for anyone's sake, and the industry could well be stronger for it.

 

[Chibz]

There's the interesting thing about gender: It doesn't exist. Not really. It's merely a construct of society, and is therefore incredibly fragile and transparent.[footnote]Especially to individuals like me[/footnote] Society dictates and teaches children how men and women are "supposed to act" and this molds our collective standards in the matter.

The best thing we could do as far as "sexual equality" goes is ditch the rather laughable idea of gender. Then the difference between a man and a woman becomes purely physical.

Sigh...

 

[Chrysocollus]

Hmm. I find this to be a fascinating thread. As a woman, I'm not very "feminine", certainly. I do wish that, growing up, I'd found more females to idolize; all of the people that I learned from as I grew were men. In the stories I've read I've seen strong female characters, by they never influenced me or related to me like the male characters did. Same goes for video games. And yet I never question being female, nor having feminine traits, albeit not terribly obvious ones.

Well, there was one woman I really did like. I really did idolize Samus, once upon a time. That makes Metroid: Other M so much worse in my eyes.

There was a time when I really liked Lara Croft, too, but that was when I was too young to know she was just a whore with a hard on for old stuff. >_<

But I don't think there's any piece of art that can be completely inoffensive, or it loses it's value as art, unless it's being inoffensive as a rhetorical point (hmm...), in which case it'll still probably be offensive to some extent. I'm not saying it's necessarily a good thing, and I'd certainly take issue with something saying, oh say, women belong in the kitchen barefoot and pregnant, but I wouldn't say it wasn't art. Just not good art.

Anyways...even if I made a game from scratch, being female, some feminists would probably still take issue with how I portray my female characters, as some males would probably take issue with the way I portray my male characters. I will always wish that Sir Sakamoto had made Samus an actual character who knew what it was like to have an understanding paternal relationship instead of an abusive one, but she is now who she is. But no matter how awful it is as a game, it's still art.

Eheh...so...on video games as art and offensiveness...heh...

 

[Samechiel]

but she is now who she is

Lies! LIIIIIIEEEEEES!

Other M sold... what? Little over half a million units? That did NOT make Daddy Nintendo happy at all. There's still a chance that if someone can cram Sakamoto back in his cage, Samus could still be saved. They could sweep the whole fiasco under the rug and pretend it never happened.

Right?

RIGHT?



...right?

 

[Chrysocollus]

but she is now who she is

Lies! LIIIIIIEEEEEES!

Other M sold... what? Little over half a million units? That did NOT make Daddy Nintendo happy at all. There's still a chance that if someone can cram Sakamoto back in his cage, Samus could still be saved. They could sweep the whole fiasco under the rug and pretend it never happened.

Right?

RIGHT?



...right?

Ah, I should have been a bit more specific. She is who she is in that game. I would like it if it was declared non-canon, however I doubt that will actually happen. But even if it's declared canon or not, Metroid Other M is still what it is. So Other M's Samus will always be Other M's Samus.

...I don't really know if that's making any sense or not, but this topic isn't really about Other M, although it's certainly relevant. My apologies for the minor sidetracking.