Rape Bad, Murder Good?

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brainfreeze215

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I think the difference is that rape is most often perceived as a feminist issue. Wouldn't we find a genocide game just as distasteful?

I would.
 

Shapsters

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Ultrajoe said:
Because simulated murder is an extension of the natural and healthy phenomenon; competition. It's unfortunately human.

Rape is an extension of neither lust, love or sexual frustration, it's an expression of one-sided power. It's inherently inhuman.

As such, Rape is worse.
This

Murder in a game can be for gaining power, getting money etc, but what can possible justify rape in a video game?

Murder can just happen, killing someone then moving on(I am talking about a game). But rape involves seducing/drugging the woman, holding her down a forcible having sex with her. In what part of a game does that belong?

I really don't understand these threads comparing rape to murder in video games. There is so much more that involves into raping compared to murder. Just completely unnecessary in any game.
 

KaiusCormere

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The killing of innocents in videogames, while it is wrong, it is typically done without special care to cause undue suffering. Compare running over pedestrians in GTA (probably the most common act of murder in that game) vs. dismemberment and mutilation as in Hostel - while the consequences for the deceased are the same, the person in Hostel is taking a special, perverse pleasure in causing horrific suffering, and it is this quality that is the same in the rapist. They take pleasure in the act. A murderer may feel that way as well...or may not. While the perpetrator of either action would deserve death from an objective standpoint, those that take pleasure in causing such suffering are so inhuman it makes one sickened to consider it.

The rape games appeal directly to that - as would a Hostel simulator, and both of those kinds of games disgust me. Though it may be legal, I personally would rather they didn't exist. I don't care to defend their 1st amendment rights really. Not because I fear people will emulate that IRL, more because I don't want it to exist at all.
 

Streetfighter

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I'm going to kill this one dead right here.

The murder in videogames isn't so much murder as combat. Even the helpless civilians have a chance to run away in Prototype before I use their bodies as surfboards. Most of the humans you send to the next world in a given game are trying to kill you back and reduces the whole murder debate to a "kill or be killed" philophsy that was kind of cemented in as acceptable around about 2 million BC. Because of that it's coded into human (especially male) DNA as something that's alright, even desirable to do. Why the freak do you think nations invade each other? Not everything's a pre-emptive strike.

RAPE, however, involves sexual domination, humiliation, girls curling up and crying in showers frantically trying to clean themselves. It's not really that much fun (unless you are a sexual monstrosity, which undoubtedly some of you are, given the amount of tentacle hentai out there). If you were engaged in some sort of fucked-up battle where you were attempting to anally rape someone before he anally raped YOU, that may, in a more liberal future possibly, be passed of as acceptable. The standard image that people have in their heads of rape (man holds woman down and has sex with her against her will leaving her traumatised) doesn't really translate into "challenging fun", a label that you can apply to all other games (except FLOCK on XBLA. Fuck that noise).

In closing, on-screen violence has long been accepted far more so than any sexual content, both in movies and games. For example, a scene with a man getting a bullet through his head in the Steven Segal film "Belly of the Beast" netted that movie the same rating as one of Meg Ryan getting some explicit loving in "In the Cut".
It IS interesting that censors don't want us to see life beginning but they feel fine letting us see it end.

"Action" doesn't necessarily translate into "murder". "Sexuality" doesn't necessarily translate into "rape." There is a REASON why the pair of them are capital crimes with similar punishments but there's also a REASON why they're treated differently when it comes to ratings.
 

magnuslion

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Cheeze_Pavilion said:
magnuslion said:
I suffered sexual abuse and rape and torture as a child. im glad i am alive. you either choose to forgive, and move on, or you torture yourself forever. and it really is nothing more than a choice. we are the ones who cock it up with our "but..but..." crap.

as to the moral ambiguity of murder, i foind it vastlet interesting that we as a society term rape ((which i will remind you has become a freaking gaming slang term)) to be more heinous than murder, which terminates a persons choice to do anything.

kinda strange.
I think maybe because we consider most rapists to be worse people than most murderers, even if they 'do less damage'. A lot of the time, a murder happens because of some reason. When murders are done for the same reason rapes occur, for the enjoyment of the act regardless of the damage done to the other person, we consider those murderers way different than those who murder out of anger or something a little less ugly.

I guess you could say that all rapes remind us of thrill kills, while when we think of murder, we think of someone not being able to control their rage or something. Kind of like why we think of arsonists the way we do: we can see no 'human' reason for their actions.

Not saying that's airtight logic, but I think it's the logic in the heads of many people.
the problem with that line of logic is that peoples so called "reasons" are rarely justifiable at all. "he hit me" or "she cheated on me" or any of the other common reasons for murder still show a lack of ability to control ones anger and choices. I understand the comparison, but the reality is i consider neglect ((i.e vehicular manslaughter, etc.)) to be every bit as disturbing as someone with out of control anger.
 

Noone From Nowhere

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The idea that rape can never be 'justified' requires turning a blind eye to History.
Whether it is used to break the spirits of the victim or group of victims(regardless of gender)as well as those who fail to protect said victim(s)for the purpose of demonstrating the power of one's self or group over another person or group, to wipe out a bloodline or forcibly to preserve one's own (or that of one's ethnicity, and to uphold taboos and social privilege (such as the authority of the Nobility or males to hold a position or to act or dress in a certain way, it can be just as powerful a socio-political tool as assassination but far less final for the individual.
The strong of will have an opportunity to use the experience of the sexual assault to make themselves stronger and gives the society a rally point against the rapists and their enablers just as assassination can make one into a martyr, though one who can not witness any social transformation oneself. A murder robs the victim of any potential to regain his/her composure or to undergo any change outside of decomposition.
It is perhaps the social taboo on female sexuality which often puts the blame for all of a society's 'moral' problems on 'immodest' women that makes rape feel worse than murder for them as they are not only victimized by the rapist but the people of their societies for not hiding from men. Beyond that point, the women internalize that blame and start to loathe themselves.
At that rate, that a robbery can be just as traumatic if the one robbed had no mental defenses against such a loss of control.
It may not quite be accurate, but to the victim who can still feel it is.
How does this relate to video games? Maybe they should be allowed to explore the issue of Rape in a serious manner as part of the evolution of the medium? Then again, they would benefit by giving the act of Murder more gravity in games, as well.
 

KaiusCormere

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TexaNigerian said:
The idea that rape can never be 'justified' requires turning a blind eye to History.
Whether it is used to break the spirits of the victim or group of victims(regardless of gender)as well as those who fail to protect said victim(s)for the purpose of demonstrating the power of one's self or group over another person or group, to wipe out a bloodline or forcibly to preserve one's own (or that of one's ethnicity, and to uphold taboos and social privilege (such as the authority of the Nobility or males to hold a position or to act or dress in a certain way, it can be just as powerful a socio-political tool as assassination but far less final for the individual.
The strong of will have an opportunity to use the experience of the sexual assault to make themselves stronger and gives the society a rally point against the rapists and their enablers just as assassination can make one into a martyr, though one who can not witness any social transformation oneself. A murder robs the victim of any potential to regain his/her composure or to undergo any change outside of decomposition.
It is perhaps the social taboo on female sexuality which often puts the blame for all of a society's 'moral' problems on 'immodest' women that makes rape feel worse than murder for them as they are not only victimized by the rapist but the people of their societies for not hiding from men. Beyond that point, the women internalize that blame and start to loathe themselves.
At that rate, that a robbery can be just as traumatic if the one robbed had no mental defenses against such a loss of control.
It may not quite be accurate, but to the victim who can still feel it is.
How does this relate to video games? Maybe they should be allowed to explore the issue of Rape in a serious manner as part of the evolution of the medium? Then again, they would benefit by giving the act of Murder more gravity in games, as well.
Are you suggesting that the use of rape by a social elite to break the spirits of a group of victims is a justifiable political tool? (like apparently, assassination) I suppose the Japanese in WW2 were thinking something similar when the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Nanking took place.

I would have thought it didn't need to be said but I suppose here we go :
Rape is not a justifiable political tool!
 

Cxizent

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Jan 14, 2009
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Insanum said:
Well:

Rape usually tortures someone mentally afterwards, Not too mention the possibility of pregnancy, etc.

Murder tends too affect other people, not really the victim.

I can understand your point, Unfortunately sex has always been a more taboo subject than murder.

EDIT: Due too people questioning what i mean:

Murder effects the victim, it takes away theyre life, however the after effects mainly effects the family, etc.
"too" = also, as well.
 

Noone From Nowhere

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KaiusCormere said:
TexaNigerian said:
The idea that rape can never be 'justified' requires turning a blind eye to History.
Whether it is used to break the spirits of the victim or group of victims(regardless of gender)as well as those who fail to protect said victim(s)for the purpose of demonstrating the power of one's self or group over another person or group, to wipe out a bloodline or forcibly to preserve one's own (or that of one's ethnicity, and to uphold taboos and social privilege (such as the authority of the Nobility or males to hold a position or to act or dress in a certain way, it can be just as powerful a socio-political tool as assassination but far less final for the individual.
The strong of will have an opportunity to use the experience of the sexual assault to make themselves stronger and gives the society a rally point against the rapists and their enablers just as assassination can make one into a martyr, though one who can not witness any social transformation oneself. A murder robs the victim of any potential to regain his/her composure or to undergo any change outside of decomposition.
It is perhaps the social taboo on female sexuality which often puts the blame for all of a society's 'moral' problems on 'immodest' women that makes rape feel worse than murder for them as they are not only victimized by the rapist but the people of their societies for not hiding from men. Beyond that point, the women internalize that blame and start to loathe themselves.
At that rate, that a robbery can be just as traumatic if the one robbed had no mental defenses against such a loss of control.
It may not quite be accurate, but to the victim who can still feel it is.
How does this relate to video games? Maybe they should be allowed to explore the issue of Rape in a serious manner as part of the evolution of the medium? Then again, they would benefit by giving the act of Murder more gravity in games, as well.
Are you suggesting that the use of rape by a social elite to break the spirits of a group of victims is a justifiable political tool? (like apparently, assassination) I suppose the Japanese in WW2 were thinking something similar when the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Nanking took place.

I would have thought it didn't need to be said but I suppose here we go :
Rape is not a justifiable political tool!
Perhaps you failed to notice that the word Justified is in quotes?
People can come up with excuses for anything.
 

Ultrajoe

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Apr 24, 2008
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samaritan.squirrel said:
Isn't porn a form of escapism for the sexually frustrated?
Rape isn't about sexual release, it's about control, power and attack.

A Rape fetish? That's sexual release. Rape? Not so much.
 

Lord Kodous

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Feb 24, 2009
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rape is worse because usually the victim has to live with the trauma of being raped, the victim of murder does not
 

mike1921

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Cheeze_Pavilion said:
mike1921 said:
.......how is virtual sex real??
It provokes a sexual response. On the other hand, while I've played football, Madden has never provoked a tackling response in me

You make it sound like porn is inheritly bad.
My fault then for being unclear: porn is FANTASTIC. Thing is, porn is its own category. It kinda crosses the boundary from virtual to real even when it's pictures on a screen. This is because sex, unlike shooting guns or throwing footballs or rolling around giant balls of stuff to save the universe--is primarily a *mental* activity: the most important sexual organ is the brain, so.
When violence in a game or anime works me up I want to fight someone, normally in unrealistic ways. When porn works me up I want to bone someone.
Mirroga said:
It also adds to rape = sexism / women activist bait, but violence and murder is universal.
Women could rape men, women could rape women, men could rape men, men could rape women. It's not sexism, and I honestly don't care what pisses off the feminazis.
Lord Kodous said:
rape is worse because usually the victim has to live with the trauma of being raped, the victim of murder does not
I'd rather live with trauma than die unless said trauma caused brain damage.
magnuslion said:
Cheeze_Pavilion said:
magnuslion said:
I suffered sexual abuse and rape and torture as a child. im glad i am alive. you either choose to forgive, and move on, or you torture yourself forever. and it really is nothing more than a choice. we are the ones who cock it up with our "but..but..." crap.

as to the moral ambiguity of murder, i foind it vastlet interesting that we as a society term rape ((which i will remind you has become a freaking gaming slang term)) to be more heinous than murder, which terminates a persons choice to do anything.

kinda strange.
I think maybe because we consider most rapists to be worse people than most murderers, even if they 'do less damage'. A lot of the time, a murder happens because of some reason. When murders are done for the same reason rapes occur, for the enjoyment of the act regardless of the damage done to the other person, we consider those murderers way different than those who murder out of anger or something a little less ugly.

I guess you could say that all rapes remind us of thrill kills, while when we think of murder, we think of someone not being able to control their rage or something. Kind of like why we think of arsonists the way we do: we can see no 'human' reason for their actions.

Not saying that's airtight logic, but I think it's the logic in the heads of many people.
the problem with that line of logic is that peoples so called "reasons" are rarely justifiable at all. "he hit me" or "she cheated on me" or any of the other common reasons for murder still show a lack of ability to control ones anger and choices. I understand the comparison, but the reality is i consider neglect ((i.e vehicular manslaughter, etc.)) to be every bit as disturbing as someone with out of control anger.
Wait "he hit me" is self-defense, how is that not justified? As for "she cheated on me", agreed
 

Megacherv

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Sep 24, 2008
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With Rape, the victim is still alive and is emotionally and mentally traumatised, and the friends and family are shocked, but still go on with their daily lives. With murder the victim is dead, therefore feels nothing, and the family grieve, but still go on with their daily lives.