Realism, Except for women or Are there any real girls in video games.

[Beautiful End]

snip

Colour me cynical but in a game like Dragon Age, Fallout 3/NV or anything that shares this same characteristic I'm going to relay everyone has exactly the same body type. Wynne may look old but she has the exact same figure as Morrigan so putting them in that kind of clothing when their body types are indistinguishable just seems pointless. Bonnie was good looking but they actually had the balls to put clothes on her. I don't what women's reaction is but personally I don't think the problem is making them attractive, but kitting them out in string bikini slutware. There's no reason you can't have an attractive character without exploiting them. Really I just hate when any form of media tries to use nudity/sex appeal as an incentive. If I want to watch porn, then the Internet has a plentiful supply but I'm here to play a game damnit.

Because...sex sells. Truly, that's one of the main reasons why Duke Nukem sold whatever copies it sold before people realized it sucked.

But I agree completely. Part of why I like characters like Bonnie is because they're more than eye candy; they have personality. You don't pay attention to Bonnie because you first see her taking a bath by the river, completely naked or something like that. No, you like her because of her development throughout the game and because you get to know her better.
Sadly, with Morrigan and everyone else who is meant to be ye candy first, everything else second, you gain interest in her because she's "that one half naked swamp witch".
So really, when we have to explain why we like characters like Morrigan, even though no one says it, we all know it's because she's, well, she could use a little bit more clothing. Same reason why Lara Croft is popular, same reason why Tifa is popular and so on.

I still can't remember the name of that blonde girl from Uncharted. I didn't make it too far into the game when I got it but it seemed to me she was also pretty down to Earth. She didn't look slutty, dumb or anything and I kinda got to like her.

 

[DEAD34345]

Kreia from Kotor II, she's definately not your average boobs on a stick >_>

What's real about Kreia?

Do you meet many women in real life who will complain no matter what you do, act like they know everything, and constantly spew completely useless and nonsensical "advice"?

On second thoughts, don't answer that.

OT: I can't think of any women that really seem "real" or normal in games, but neither can I think of any real or normal men, so what's the problem? Video-games don't focus on normal people because interesting people are more... well... interesting. Just like movies and books.

 

[badgersprite]

As real as you'd get in film or on television. I mean, what do you expect? People are going to try to design characters or cast actors who are attractive, or at least who a lot of people would consider attractive.

I think the discussion often takes the wrong view of this issue. It's not necessarily "real women" that we want in video games - it's relatable women (but then whether anyone can agree on what makes a woman relatable is a whole other can of worms).

 

[Suijen]

I liked Femshep and Alyx Vance.

 

[Pegghead]

I know it's a cardinal sin to bring her up in any way that isn't tearing her to pieces, but I'd like bring forth Rochelle from Left 4 Dead 2.

It's not the best picture seeing as it's an artwork of her armed to the teeth but let's face it:

*She was nothing that special before the apocalypse, just a downtrodden intern for a local tv news station who probably would've been happy enough to grab coffee each day of her career (she was originally going to be a kind of no-nonsense, older DMV lady)

*She's not exactly looking to win a beauty contest. Looks like she'd just gotten out of bed on the day it all happened, old band tee, messy hair etc. She's what, probably late-twenties, early thirties, sporting a tone of voice that across all dialogue never resembles anything close to being truly cheerful or sing-songey or even whole-heartedly badass.

*She's not some kind of strong, independent badass of a woman nor is she a stereotypical damsel in distress. She's just taking the end of the world as it comes and isn't trying to rock the boat with the three sane men in her world she physically needs to survive (as they need her)

I know, I know. Being a fairly bland character doesn't automatically make her a "real girl", but compare all this to Princess Peach. Compare it to Chun-Li, hell, compare it to Zoey from the first game.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Hi there, friendly neighborhood blah blah blah. Lets get straight to my point:

So while fussing around on some awesome Character Creation Engines suggested by all you delightful Escapees, when I realized that I only ever see "real" women on games that feature them, or, barring that, ATTEMPTS at "real" women. So I'm wondering one thing, solely because if I addressed the second I'd just get one million valid opinions I've all already heard, so, instead I ask: Are there any games you can think of that include "real" women? Either physically or emotionally, and yes, I know, some real women are sticks with balloons attached, or single note stereotypes, thus the use of quotations.

TLDR: You're a bad person, read the post, it's like, ONE paragraph.

Yes, though no actual existing women are like those real women in games, books, movies etc.



Everything in games (and those other media) is IDEALIZED, it's the perfect version of that thing in the minds of the creators. Real spaceships will never be like those things in star wars...but boy wouldn't it be cool if they were! Real swords don't cut mountains in half...but isn't a sword able to do that a cool thing? Real women aren't able to run and fight comfortably in sexy outfits or stiff beautiful gowns...but don't they look prettier doing that than just dressed as another soldier in our loved games?


That's what you should take out of every game you play, everything you see is a perfection of the original real object in the eyes of the creator. (at least this is true for the good ones, a lot of games just deliver what they think the fans will like to see, despite sometimes not actually considering it perfect, and that's the hack segment of them)

 

[Innegativeion]

Jade from Beyond Good and Evil.

OOoooh ninja'd

Was gonna say, I just got beyond good and evil HD, and she's pretty much just... Jade.

I mean its obvious the artists designed her to be attractive, but she's a character before she's a woman clearly. She wears baggy pants and a coat, a low cut neck but nothing too revealing. She's a photographer who became skilled with a bow staff out of necessity (alien invasions and what not).

She has a very clear personality, trades a lot of snarky comments with her adoptive uncle, and the fact that she's female isn't really made tremendously important.

I think she's an excellent model for making a "good" female protagonist.

 

[Treblaine]

I realized that I only ever see "real" women on games that feature them

uhhh, so the only things that have women are things that have women. Isn't that obvious!?!

What do you mean?!?!

Yeah, women are poorly represented, but "realism" isn't itself that big a problem as men aren't presented realistically either. Men are hyper masculine idealised representations of the male form, uncompromising and admirable, and much the same is done with female characters only to a much shallower extent.

Ultimately I think developers (who are mostly male) are really unsure about depiction of females, which usually relegates them to NPC role.

I think Alyx is a fairly good representation, she certainly dresses practically but not asexually.

 

[AdeptaSororitas]

Hi there, friendly neighborhood blah blah blah. Lets get straight to my point:

So while fussing around on some awesome Character Creation Engines suggested by all you delightful Escapees, when I realized that I only ever see "real" women on games that feature them, or, barring that, ATTEMPTS at "real" women. So I'm wondering one thing, solely because if I addressed the second I'd just get one million valid opinions I've all already heard, so, instead I ask: Are there any games you can think of that include "real" women? Either physically or emotionally, and yes, I know, some real women are sticks with balloons attached, or single note stereotypes, thus the use of quotations.

TLDR: You're a bad person, read the post, it's like, ONE paragraph.

Yes, though no actual existing women are like those real women in games, books, movies etc.



Everything in games (and those other media) is IDEALIZED, it's the perfect version of that thing in the minds of the creators. Real spaceships will never be like those things in star wars...but boy wouldn't it be cool if they were! Real swords don't cut mountains in half...but isn't a sword able to do that a cool thing? Real women aren't able to run and fight comfortably in sexy outfits or stiff beautiful gowns...but don't they look prettier doing that than just dressed as another soldier in our loved games?


That's what you should take out of every game you play, everything you see is a perfection of the original real object in the eyes of the creator. (at least this is true for the good ones, a lot of games just deliver what they think the fans will like to see, despite sometimes not actually considering it perfect, and that's the hack segment of them)

I understand that, I never stated I was asking WHY this is true, simply because I know the answer because so many people discuss it. MY question is, are there any girls who are "real" feeling or looking. Or at least on the way to being "real". Everything in movies is idealized, yet there are still movies with average or even below average looking female characters and or leads. Same with books, same with actual ART. I'm wondering if there are any example yet, some inkling as to what may yet come of our relatively young medium.

 

[Thaliur]

Jade from Beyond Good and Evil.

I support this!
She was good-looking, but not "sexualised", as many others.

 

[AdeptaSororitas]

I realized that I only ever see "real" women on games that feature them

uhhh, so the only things that have women are things that have women. Isn't that obvious!?!

What do you mean?!?!

Yeah, women are poorly represented, but "realism" isn't itself that big a problem as men aren't presented realistically either. Men are hyper masculine idealised representations of the male form, uncompromising and admirable, and much the same is done with female characters only to a much shallower extent.

Ultimately I think developers (who are mostly male) are really unsure about depiction of females, which usually relegates them to NPC role.

I think Alyx is a fairly good representation, she certainly dresses practically but not asexually.

I mean games that SPECIFICALLY set out to make "real" girls, such as Alyx from Half Life, they were actively trying to make a "normal" girl because geeks love nerdy girls and thats what some people consider real.

And yes, I fully understand that, and I actually plan to make a thread about it, but now is not the time and this is not the thread.

Also it is not my intention to start arguments, so I'd rather not debate whether Alyx is or isn't "real" I don't consider her so, so be it.

 

[Gladiateher]

Yeah, or at least just as much as any man in a videogame. These aren't real people and can only be so realistic. For example many men, despite what they might believe have a hard time killing, but in videogames there aren't many men that shys away from a "righteous" kill.

 

[Zinaxos]

I'm gonna say Faith from Mirror's Edge. She rocked.

 

[Treblaine]

I know it's a cardinal sin to bring her up in any way that isn't tearing her to pieces, but I'd like bring forth Rochelle from Left 4 Dead 2.

It's not the best picture seeing as it's an artwork of her armed to the teeth but let's face it:

*She was nothing that special before the apocalypse, just a downtrodden intern for a local tv news station who probably would've been happy enough to grab coffee each day of her career (she was originally going to be a kind of no-nonsense, older DMV lady)

*She's not exactly looking to win a beauty contest. Looks like she'd just gotten out of bed on the day it all happened, old band tee, messy hair etc. She's what, probably late-twenties, early thirties, sporting a tone of voice that across all dialogue never resembles anything close to being truly cheerful or sing-songey or even whole-heartedly badass.

*She's not some kind of strong, independent badass of a woman nor is she a stereotypical damsel in distress. She's just taking the end of the world as it comes and isn't trying to rock the boat with the three sane men in her world she physically needs to survive (as they need her)

I know, I know. Being a fairly bland character doesn't automatically make her a "real girl", but compare all this to Princess Peach. Compare it to Chun-Li, hell, compare it to Zoey from the first game.

Plus she's a black female. That's a group that is all but invisible.

Directors/producers that want black representation almost always choose to add a token black MALE character rather than black female. As a result the female perspective of African American culture is almost invisible, unless she is there as a the mother, wife or girlfriend or a black male protagonist.

African American culture has been segregated for so long that it is a distinct social group even with the end of segregation. But the media seems to have only ever shown the male perspective of that.

I can't tell you how rare it is to have an entertainment product that has a black female who isn't relegated to "spouse/relative of more important character".

Part of the reason I think Rochelle is so boring is the Valve writers don't have any previous works to build on. Coach, Nick and Ellis all have dozens of other characters from fiction to draw ideas from but looking through media they don't have much. So they just played her straight and that really didn't leave much to work with.

I like here and would say considering the circumstances she's looking pretty good. Definitely keeps her appearance up more than the other 3.

I think the problem is you can't write her in as the foil to the other wacky 3 without her ending up shrew-like.

 

[Treblaine]

I realized that I only ever see "real" women on games that feature them

uhhh, so the only things that have women are things that have women. Isn't that obvious!?!

What do you mean?!?!

Yeah, women are poorly represented, but "realism" isn't itself that big a problem as men aren't presented realistically either. Men are hyper masculine idealised representations of the male form, uncompromising and admirable, and much the same is done with female characters only to a much shallower extent.

Ultimately I think developers (who are mostly male) are really unsure about depiction of females, which usually relegates them to NPC role.

I think Alyx is a fairly good representation, she certainly dresses practically but not asexually.

I mean games that SPECIFICALLY set out to make "real" girls, such as Alyx from Half Life, they were actively trying to make a "normal" girl because geeks love nerdy girls and thats what some people consider real.

And yes, I fully understand that, and I actually plan to make a thread about it, but now is not the time and this is not the thread.

Also it is not my intention to start arguments, so I'd rather not debate whether Alyx is or isn't "real" I don't consider her so, so be it.

What do you mean by "real"?

Obviously it cannot be actually real, the game is by definition fictional.

What do you mean if you don't just mean "normal"?!?!?

 

[Kahunaburger]

I understand that, I never stated I was asking WHY this is true, simply because I know the answer because so many people discuss it. MY question is, are there any girls who are "real" feeling or looking. Or at least on the way to being "real". Everything in movies is idealized, yet there are still movies with average or even below average looking female characters and or leads. Same with books, same with actual ART. I'm wondering if there are any example yet, some inkling as to what may yet come of our relatively young medium.

"Real" meaning what, exactly? Three-dimensional?

 

[Erana]

You know, I greatly appreciate the consciousness of the people posting here of the misrepresentation of women in the media, but I think the biggest issue here is not that women are poorly characterized, but that so few developers are able to really make great, believable characters, period.

If the industry does better with their characters as a whole, then good women will follow. Or people of any group, for that matter.

 

[Gunner 51]

sic...

-Bonnie McFarlane (Red Dead Redemption): You can kinda feel an awkward kind of tension between John and Bonnie. But she's got responsibilities; a father to look after, a ranch to run, she's pretty much the man of the house ranch in a time where this was frowned upon. She's gutsy but not...gay? I mean no offense.

-Morrigan (Dragon Age: Origins): UGHHH! I can't help myself! Perhaps its the fan in my who just wants to see her as a real woman. But I mean, you see her evolve from a cruel and heartless woman who doesn't believe in love into a heartbroken, confused woman who eventually does fall in love. Even though the topic of love is like a side plot in this game, it's still pretty realistic in that sense.
Can't really say anything else about the other characters. I've only finished the game with Morrigan as a love interest. But I assume it's the same, kinda sorta?

I agree with these two choices, I haven't seen the others you had mentioned. Though you're not the only one who sees a real lady in Morrigan. Though you may find it worth your while to play the Witch Hunt DLC to see the ending to Morrigan's story.

Spoiler

I just couldn't bring myself around to leave her to face the other dimension alone...

Though I think some honourable mentions do need to go to Aya Brea from Parasite Eve and Jenny Romero from The Darkness. (Doesn't help that she has a passing resemblance to my own OH.)

 

[Trivun]

Yep, plenty. Here are just a few I've seen, along with the (abbreviated) games they appear in. Jade (BGAE), April Ryan and Zoe Castillo (Dreamfall/The Longest Journey), Chell (Portal), Zoe (L4D), Alyx Vance (HL2), Lucy and Rebecca (AC), Ashe (FF12), Lightning (FF13).

Need I go on?