Rebecca Mayes Muses: Love Song for Yahtzee

[DeepComet5581]

Oh, wait, looks like people have already started...

Is that a compliment?

 

[FleaJr]

I'm going to guess that Mr Croshaw can't sing.. for shit.
However, imagine a Vocoder'd response 'Autotune Reviews' as it were

 

[Pandageddon]

It was a love song. Not a feminist statement.

You can't make or break love. It happens. Rebecca fancies Yahtzee, so she will write a love song about Yahtzee.

Yahtzee's opinions are his own. I have noticed he tends to go after female characters more than male characters. But thats to be expected. He is a white, British male. We are practically born misogynist.

But if you want to debate games, i'm more than happy to do so.

You say that its socially acceptable to be homophobic in gaming communities. Umm... no. If I saw someone being homophobic in a game, then I would see that they are dealt with in an appropriate manner depending on how they behaved.

Also, you say there are no gay or bisexual lead characters. Have you completely forgotten Fable and Fable 2? Where the lead character could be both? You also only give 2 examples of games with a strong female companion. Half-Life 2? That had the most empowered woman I've ever seen in that kind of game.

Might I also point out that the protagonist of the Metroid series, Samus Aran, is a woman, and that the protagonist of Deus Ex: Invisible War, Alex D, could be chosen to be a woman. Also, Invisible War was full of female characters that didn't just play eyecandy roles (Billie Adams, Klara Sparks, Leila Nassif, Nicolette DuClare etc).

On a final point, you say that these points apply to mainstream games. Most gaming companies will tell you that the mainstream consists of a large percentage of males. This means that they have to create games that appeal directly to MEN. Why do you think there have been loads of crappy things released for the Wii? They are Nintendo's attempt to corner the female market.

You've made some good points there. I've not played Deus Ex: Invisible War, is it worth checking out? I forgot Metroid, and Portal- I think I'll blame that little oversight on my hangover!

When I said it's 'socially acceptable' to be homophobic, I didn't mean that I think it's a fine way of behaving- but it is very common, at least from my experiences. I used to play World of Warcraft and Halo and you'd hear people using homophobic language all the time- WoW battlegrounds and PuGs are particularly bad for it. It was rare that anyone got told it was not cool or kicked from groups. In fact, a couple of times I saw people being booted from groups precisely for addressing the homophobia. It is possible that I've seen more douchebaggery than you though, and I wouldn't hold the WoW community up as a shining representation of all gamers and their opinions.

You're quite right about being able to choose your character's sexuality in the Fable games, and you can do it in Dragon Age: Origins as well (the two bisexual characters you can get freaky with are interesting and well written, which is nice). I doubt you'd see many gay characters outside of RPGs, though, and certainly not as the main character- can you imagine a game like God of War with a gay hero, for example?

It's interesting that you say that the majority of mainstream gamers are male. According to this survey, two thirds of online gamers are women:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2006/10/7922.ars

I realise that study takes into account all games with an online component, not just mainstream games. From my own anecdotal experience, almost all the women I know are gamers playing everything from Mario Kart to Saints Row 2 to 80 hour JRPGs. There's a definite market of female gamers playing "proper" games as opposed to just faffing about on FarmVille or WiiSports. It would be nice to have a bit more representation, both in the games and in the industry itself.

 

[MiserableOldGit]

So er, what brought that on at this point in time exactly? Did he bugger off the mornin after and not call you back or something? I prefer standing outside their house at 3 in the morning drunk while shouting obscenities and throwing plantpots at pets/windows/incidental passersby, but whatever works for you...

 

[DeepComet5581]

You've made some good points there. I've not played Deus Ex: Invisible War, is it worth checking out? I forgot Metroid, and Portal- I think I'll blame that little oversight on my hangover!

When I said it's 'socially acceptable' to be homophobic, I didn't mean that I think it's a fine way of behaving- but it is very common, at least from my experiences. I used to play World of Warcraft and Halo and you'd hear people using homophobic language all the time- WoW battlegrounds and PuGs are particularly bad for it. It was rare that anyone got told it was not cool or kicked from groups. In fact, a couple of times I saw people being booted from groups precisely for addressing the homophobia. It is possible that I've seen more douchebaggery than you though, and I wouldn't hold the WoW community up as a shining representation of all gamers and their opinions.

You're quite right about being able to choose your character's sexuality in the Fable games, and you can do it in Dragon Age: Origins as well (the two bisexual characters you can get freaky with are interesting and well written, which is nice). I doubt you'd see many gay characters outside of RPGs, though, and certainly not as the main character- can you imagine a game like God of War with a gay hero, for example?

It's interesting that you say that the majority of mainstream gamers are male. According to this survey, two thirds of online gamers are women:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2006/10/7922.ars

I realise that study takes into account all games with an online component, not just mainstream games. From my own anecdotal experience, almost all the women I know are gamers playing everything from Mario Kart to Saints Row 2 to 80 hour JRPGs. There's a definite market of female gamers playing "proper" games as opposed to just faffing about on FarmVille or WiiSports. It would be nice to have a bit more representation, both in the games and in the industry itself.

I would indeed like to point out first that online games and mainstream games are different, and women tend to play online games more for the social element.

Invisible War is a disappointment if you enjoyed the original. It just doesn't have the same spark, but has greatly improved technology usage.

In my experience, people either act homophobic as a joke or because they're religious. I have never and will never play World of Warcraft, so I don't know about what sort of behaviour goes on there. From what I know of people who do, there are a lot of immature people on there and that they most certainly dont represent the opinions or behaviour of all gamers.

Also, I think it might be good to mention that quite a lot of people are homophobic in real life for any number of reasons (Mostly religion) and that attitude will translate into their daily activities. They can't help it, thats the way they are.

Kratos would be a bad example of someone who could be gay. He is an emotionless demi-god, and therefore has no discernable sexuality or sexual orientation. I think the best examples are male JRPG characters who, with their long hair and flamboyant clothing, could very well be gay, or at least borderline.

 

[Latinidiot]

HAHAHAHAHA, just imagine Yahtzee writting a song and singing it in response. You'll laugh too.

I think it would have to be a rap. a very fast one.

 

[feeqmatic]

I think Ms. Muse has 50 cent syndrome. Which i find hilarious and ridiculous at the same time. I'm not a big fan of muse, her music is not my cup of tea. But thats not the issue here. This was a crude marketing ploy similar to the activities of 50 cent who if you have ever noticed, always manages to "beef" with another rapper not long before or after he has a new album waiting to be released. Being that the Epic win dropped this week, and that she promoted this as a love song the entire time, she knew what she was doing.

I haven't watched one of her videos in months but i tuned in to this one only to find it an abstract unentertaining and semi nonsensical attack on a comic writer's character based soley of his comedic stylings. I find it highly laughable that anyone would try to attack a comedian on anything except being funny or unfunny as it immediately destroys the attackers credibility and logic. Its like getting angry at south park. Why? Why wait till her album comes out. Why deceive the escapist community with this whole "love song" ruse. Why the weird screw driver ending? Why hasn't she repped too hard for feminism up until this point? What was this supposed to be aside from a bump in her q rating and a boost to her record sales.

I find Yahtzee wildly entertaining. And Im sure he has negative opinions on women as a whole along with most people which would be par for the course. However to arbitrarily attack him as a misogynist is weak sauce and reeks of cherry picking, and a person looking to be offended. As many have stated he has had just as many statements attacking female stereotypes and misogyny as he has had jokes about women. But the kicker is that regardless they are still jokes. It all seems very contrived and calculated. And seeing as she no has nearly 400 posts in 2 days (more than yahtzee usually gets in a week) its working.

More so than a retaliation or redress from Yahtzee i would like an explanation from Muse to make sense of her logic and motivation on this event. Yahtzee should take the Rick Ross route (Rapper that beefed with 50-not say much and go on being good at what he does) and let his success speak for itself.

 

[Carnagath]

Was this an attempt to hop on the Yahtzee fame train?

Probably the Yahtzee man-train as well. Now, why exactly did she think that the Escapist community needed to be informed of this is beyond me. It's a match made in heaven though, for sure. An oh-so-edgy mildly entertaining late 20's man with the mindset of a 14 year old emo child (all people are shit and I am ugly) and an extremely insecure, extremely vulnerable woman of the same age who immediately takes offence at everything and is STILL unsure about the true nature of her own sexuality, judging by her own blog posts. To quote Ebert, "you inhabit a world I am so not interested in".

I also find it amusing that so many people in this thread equate internet sexism (usually displayed by pre-teen boys) to real-world sexism. The internet is where people go to unwind and be silly. Taking anything said over the internet at face value is a recipe for disaster. Calling someone a "whore" or a "******" because they killed you in some FPS game does not mean these are heart-felt statements that also depict that person's real life views and morality. What most people in real life are actually looking for is to meet someone with an interesting personality that they trust enough to warrant loving them unconditionally. The fact that they may go home at the end of the day and say "Oh, you fag" while playin Halo 3 does not make them horrible monsters. Get your world views sorted out, pretty please.

 

[DSaB]

Yahtzee should definitly do a reply in the same style as the song at the end credits of "only fools and horses", i think that would work.

Like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxOEhc960Bc

Who did he insult to piss her off so much?

 

[distilledfx]

Very nice, def loved the little reggae bits I could hear in there. Shame about the choppy images, I would have thought Yahtzee would have helped you out by sending them out but then again... affectionate but honest, without resorting to ZP style cursing and hostility.

 

[magicmonkeybars]

Wow, that was pretty vicious coming from a hippy.
I didn't think you'd have such venomous fangs, you spitefull little kitty you.
See how your anger has made you popular, now strike Yahtzee down and become the most popular feature on the Escapist.

 

[distilledfx]

The internet is where people go to unwind and be silly. Taking anything said over the internet at face value is a recipe for disaster.

Bingo. I like to think people here are smart enough to know that the internet shouldn't be taken seriously.

 

[Pandageddon]

I would indeed like to point out first that online games and mainstream games are different, and women tend to play online games more for the social element.

Invisible War is a disappointment if you enjoyed the original. It just doesn't have the same spark, but has greatly improved technology usage.

In my experience, people either act homophobic as a joke or because they're religious. I have never and will never play World of Warcraft, so I don't know about what sort of behaviour goes on there. From what I know of people who do, there are a lot of immature people on there and that they most certainly dont represent the opinions or behaviour of all gamers.

Also, I think it might be good to mention that quite a lot of people are homophobic in real life for any number of reasons (Mostly religion) and that attitude will translate into their daily activities. They can't help it, thats the way they are.

Kratos would be a bad example of someone who could be gay. He is an emotionless demi-god, and therefore has no discernable sexuality or sexual orientation. I think the best examples are male JRPG characters who, with their long hair and flamboyant clothing, could very well be gay, or at least borderline.

Kratos' sexuality was pretty well defined in God of War 3 when you got him to bang Aphrodite in a mini-game

But aside from that I think Kratos is a perfect example of a character who could potentially be gay! I live in a city with a huge gay scene and I see chaps that could pass for Kratos walking arm in arm with their boyfriends all the time. Also, he's an ancient Greek, and they were quite accepting of homosexuality. Being gay shouldn't automatically equate to "fop".

Religion is certainly a big reason why some people are homophobic, but there are also plenty of non-religious people out there who just plain hate gay people, too.'Gay' or 'fag' seem to be catch-all insults in some gaming communities. Even though WoW players don't represent all gamers, it is still a huge and very visible community.

Going back to your other post, I appreciate that Rebbecca wasn't singing some kind of feminist manifesto. But she did call Yahzee misogynistic, which is a pretty unpleasant thing to be accused of. I think if you're going to use that word it should be at a truly deserving target. You mentioned that you thought Yahzee tended to come down harder on female protagonists than male ones- might that be because those characters have been particularly badly realised? As you pointed out, mainstream games are mainly aimed at guys- but they're also overwhelmingly made by men too. In Bayonetta's case, it was made by men who appear to have only observed women from a very great distance . I've seen Yahzee reviewing games with female characters on them where he hasn't ragged on them purely for being female.

 

[Carnagath]

snip

I really dislike Rebecca Mayes.
No offense, but she kind of reminds me of the girl in Hi5 that always made mini-versions of the songs that other people did on the show.
I hated her because I thought all she did was steal people's stuff.

Look, I have no problem with her. She sings about video games, and that's cool. You obviously can't expect "High Art" at the rate at which she is required to produce these songs, it's pretty amazing that she even manages to keep up with that in the first place. It's often nice to check up on one of her songs after finishing a game, it's a nice supplement. And of course she is beautiful, at least by my preferences. I believe she makes a nice addition to the Escapist's features. It's this specific video that I find pointless and annoyingly vain.

 

[David Eller]

Are you so certain that he drinks?
I could imagine a slurring rebecca coming at a sober aussie with a pencil...

And he'd be like, "I'll show you a pencil!"

mwahahhaha

 

[DeepComet5581]

Kratos' sexuality was pretty well defined in God of War 3 when you got him to bang Aphrodite in a mini-game

But aside from that I think Kratos is a perfect example of a character who could potentially be gay! I live in a city with a huge gay scene and I see chaps that could pass for Kratos walking arm in arm with their boyfriends all the time. Also, he's an ancient Greek, and they were quite accepting of homosexuality. Being gay shouldn't automatically equate to "fop".

Religion is certainly a big reason why some people are homophobic, but there are also plenty of non-religious people out there who just plain hate gay people, too.'Gay' or 'fag' seem to be catch-all insults in some gaming communities. Even though WoW players don't represent all gamers, it is still a huge and very visible community.

Going back to your other post, I appreciate that Rebbecca wasn't singing some kind of feminist manifesto. But she did call Yahzee misogynistic, which is a pretty unpleasant thing to be accused of. I think if you're going to use that word it should be at a truly deserving target. You mentioned that you thought Yahzee tended to come down harder on female protagonists than male ones- might that be because those characters have been particularly badly realised? As you pointed out, mainstream games are mainly aimed at guys- but they're also overwhelmingly made by men too. In Bayonetta's case, it was made by men who appear to have only observed women from a very great distance . I've seen Yahzee reviewing games with female characters on them where he hasn't ragged on them purely for being female.

Fair enough. I haven't actually played God of War 3, so I wasn't aware of that. Still, it took until the third game to realise that feature and it only seems to happen once.

I can only see Kratos as a kind of Carry-On style camp, talking about his "Flailing weapon" at times. In England we don't have quite so much of a gay scene, and we certainly don't have men with biceps wider than their heads, so it would be hard for me to make the same comparison. I am aware of the Greek's tendencies towards homosexuality, but still maintain the point that being a divine entity does mean being detached from normal human activities (Which Yahtzee incidentally commented on in his review of GoW3)

Tolerance of homosexuality is much better than it used to be in countries like England and America, which is where the majority of the immature haters come from. It comes down to values. I was brought up under the mantra of "All human beings are equal" and have developed enough of an open mind to not give 2 sh**s if someone likes members of their own gender. Quite a lot of other people (Mostly Americans, I'm afraid) aren't quite so open minded due to their upbringing, religious or not.

Female characters being badly realised just gives Yahtzee an excuse to hate on them (Which is the entire point of ZP, to hate on games, no matter how good), which gives the impression that he is a misogynist. He might be misogynist, I don't know. He might even admit that. I doubt he's going to take offense though.

As with men being the primary heads of gaming companies: Well, thats life. Men are more obsessed with gaming and will therefore be much more obsessed with game design and production. For example, of the 22 guys and 27 girls I keep in regular contact with, 8 of the guys and only 1 of the girls have expressed an interest in game design at some point. Women just like to pursue other interests.