Regarding Santa Claus [NO KIDS ALLOWED]

[Ashannon Blackthorn]

It's weird. I'm torn about this thread. I want to smack the OP and congratulate him at the same time.

Smack him because of his generally whiny emo condescending crap he writes, but he is right.

But then again, I also don't see the harm and I sure as hell don't buy no conspiracy theories. Most conspiracy theories are for the weak minded trying to prove that they "know" stuff the common masses don't.

But Santa is a symbol and as good Saint George (Carlin) said, "I leave symbols to the symbol minded..."

So maybe the OP can re-write his topic and leave out the shit and I'd be a lot more happy to fully support him as opposed ot giving him a lukewarm meh and a imaginary boot to the balls.

Also, for how I deal with ol Saint Nick... I tell the kids he's not real physically. There is no large fat man with flying moose and all that. But, I tell them what he represents is real and that they should cherish that instead of some physical being. Most kids can handle that, still get the magic and they get the realism. Best of both worlds.

 

[Z of the Na'vi]

Firstly, my father and I actually get along really great. My mother, on the other hand, is a monster *****.

And secondly, I believe you are highly wrong about "thread he created (or at least was a major part of) in which we were told to define what makes us happy in life and he shot down each and every person's response with his incredibly emo outlook on life." I want to see which thread that was that I supposedly created. And if I did create it, I bet you that you'll see that I didn't do it to everybody, maybe just one or two, at the most.

Go on. Find that thread. I call your bluff.

Nah. Too little, too late.

I personally, don't like you very much, so...no, I don't think I will.

Good day.

 

[omega 616]

Spoiler: The Easter Bunny isn't real either.

Dude!

Somebody needs to work on there spoiler tags!

On topic. Firstly no kid is good all year round for santa, that lie gets broken out late November to make kids behave.

Secondly, it's a decent reason to get over hyped kids, with one more sleep to go, to go to sleep. I am sure you remember going to bed on xmas eve squeeing like crazy that tomorrow you will be ripping open them presents that have mocking you for a whole month! The excitement is almost too much to bear!

Will people stop trying to suck the fun out of stuff? We already live in a pretty shitty world, having santa, the easter bunny and the tooth fairy make the world a teeny tiny bit better twice or thrice a year!

 

[silversnake4133]

I don't really see why there's a problem with it. If anything it teaches children both delayed gratification and that if you want to be rewarded you have to work for it (in this case they have to mind their manners and be "good" ie, not whining, screaming, crying, etc). Besides to many kids "Santa" can act as like the "generous Grandfather" because all he wants to do is give presents and spread cheer. Eventually kids learn that there is no actual Santa Claus, but that notion instilled a greater appreciation for my parents because they are so willing to give me a better Christmas before their own.

Yeah parents are essentially lying to their children, but at that age, kids aren't really going to know the difference. Besides Santa Claus has become a symbol of cheer and generosity for this holiday season. Not necessarily commercialism, but just giving to others to make them happy. This then translates into the "being good" aspect for children. If they help others and act in a positive manner toward others then they can expect that "good karma" back in the form of presents that Santa Claus will bring. Heck I'm 22 and I still believe in Santa Claus, I don't know why it's such a big deal that others don't, or that adults aren't supposed to believe in him.

 

[Singularly Datarific]

Spoiler: The Easter Bunny isn't real either.

Aaaanyways, prolly because it's fun to be able to believe in a mystical thing such as Santa. Also, behavior. Little kids care about presents so the threat of NO presents is a good way to get them in line.

 

[Capricious]

Look this does not matter if it is truth fiction real or fake this santa clause was once adopted as a story of old saint nick from germany where the parents were to poor to promote such an idea where saint nick was an old toy maker that whittled in his free time he gave his creations to kids when he passed by nothing more he became over glorified by being dubbed a saint after his death and renamed santa clause when translated is saintly cause. now it is used to promote consumerism on winter solstice pagan holiday later made to be hedonistic then was made to be christian based giving underlying "tones." Anger is unnecessary in this I personally do not celebrate any holiday due to my religious beliefs saying why have festivities on one given day why can it not be every day what make this day different and don't say christmas cheer or some nonsense like that.

I see Santa didn't give you any punctuation marks for Christmas.

There's just no right way to raise a child. Hence why I don't want one.

And here we come to the crux of it. You sir, hate children. That does not make you a bad person. My first girlfriend despised children. There is no manual that says "Raising Kids for Dummies". However, it is not incredibly difficult to know how to raise a child. You have to be dedicated, you have to be patient, you have to be strong. You make these points about incredibly traumatic events, and bombs, and child abuse. THIS IS FUCKING SANTA CLAUS. Yes, it is a lie. But you know what? WE LIE EVERY DAY. Actors lie as part of their profession! Being traumatised because of the Santa lie is like being traumatised by learning that James Bond is a fictional character. Santa is a harmless, fun thing for parents. As a parent, I know this. You are not a parent. You do not know. You also, as I predict, find children repulsive. Santa claus is NOT FOR YOU. IT IS FOR US. STOP TRYING TO BE A SMARTARSE, AND LET US GO ABOUT OUR BUSINESS.

I also see that you do not read. So let me reiterate that I does not matter that santa is real but what he purveys. He is a storybook character based on a real man. This is to help teach children what to be considered. Therefore he is to just convey the fact that you must have a year round attitude but get rewards for it. What I ask is why promote any such idea of rewarding good behavior. Why not just take it as a story to learn a moral? Why not show your detest and hate to the world? Why must we only come together once in a year? If you take these as rhetorical I will not fault you. I am a parent that view that children as do we need to learn and relearn values. The way to teach may be different but all the same the child will learn. And since the child will learn regardless of what we teach others will teach in our place.

 

[The Virgo]

Firstly, my father and I actually get along really great. My mother, on the other hand, is a monster *****.

And secondly, I believe you are highly wrong about "thread he created (or at least was a major part of) in which we were told to define what makes us happy in life and he shot down each and every person's response with his incredibly emo outlook on life." I want to see which thread that was that I supposedly created. And if I did create it, I bet you that you'll see that I didn't do it to everybody, maybe just one or two, at the most.

Go on. Find that thread. I call your bluff.

Nah. Too little, too late.

I personally, don't like you very much, so...no, I don't think I will.

Good day.

Either you find it or I will contact the mods and ask them to give you an infraction for unfounded slander, since you are unwilling to prove anything and I will not allow someone do speak badly of me about something I supposedly did on another thread without any proof. You wanna do that, have the proof to back it up.

You have 24 hours from the time of this post to either find what you're talking about or remove what you said before I contact the mods.

By the way, I love how THIS guy calls me professional troll when he won't even back up what he says. Lawl. That is all. XD

 

[Capricious]

When i have a son or daughter, im going to trick him/her into thinking im Santa. Say "I'll be back in the morning" and go out the door with a big sack on christmas eve night. ((And then climb in through my bedroom window and go to bed.))

Show up in the morning with snow on my boots, the smell of deer on my clothes and the last few presents in my bag. Then when they think im Santa, i'll tell them you, "cant tell anyone, not even your mother "

Childhood is about fantasy and whimsy. You have to build up all that happiness, so when the soul crushing depression that is High School bares down on you, you have a nice little reserve to fall on. Besides, whats more fun then saying the stupidest thing you can think of to a child and they believe it. "Yeah, People in China have to walk on their hands. If they let go, they fall into space! D: See, the world is a Dodecaoctahedron. And babies come from space! Theyre hidden inside Meteorites!" /worst father ever

My daughter and her friends believe that my name is Dr. Coconut because they lost my name in a paper shredding accident but I have a doctorate "even though I don't" and give them candy calling it medicine. I know they don't believe me but they have fun with it and they really don't know my name and their parents don't either because I introduce myself to them as such. Even so they think I'm rather insane they know that I am intelligent and don't question it. Majority of the parents tell their kids I'm a mad scientist just pervading the fun even more.

 

[The Virgo]

Okay, so as a realist you think Santa is a method of scaring kids into being good over a few weeks rather than a bit of fun? This is the second time I've had to wonder if I should burst into laughter or pity you.

Why not? I mean, I would use that as a way to make my kids behave if I had (much less wanted) any. And I am sure that I am not the only one who has thought of doing that. And I am sure many more have used this tactic to do so.

But really, you have to admit that Santa has become a marketing ploy these days. If it wasn't for him and the promise of gifts to the good girls and boys, our economy would be worse than it is. No, I take that back: CHINA'S economy would be hit hard. I suppose that it's a good thing, but it's also a bad thing. Why can't Christmas also be about time with one's family, rather than about the gifts Santa bring?

Why should you pity me for looking at things like that?

Also, if we're going into social bullshit then it's important for kids to have an active imagination. Magic, Santa, the Tooth Fairy, Dragons etc all have an impact on childhood development. Santa happens to be a big one for happiness and imagination.

And yet, look all over the world in countries where Santa isn't taught. There are just as many creative and happy kids. To say that the total removal of all non-entities from a child's life will turn him into a cold, lifeless husk, like the people in charge of EA Games, is absurd. I will grant you that there may be a more noticable creative difference between those who once believed and those who did not, but it is not entirely the case. Especially if they are never taught about it in the first place.

Also, I am curious as to how children develop if they do not have an active imagination. An active imagination is great, don't misunderstand me for one second, but if a child doesn't have an active imagination, will they still do good in school? Maybe they'll excel in other fields like sports, politics, philosophy, medical, business, law, etc. And is it not possible for a child to be taught that there is no Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Paul Bunion, Hanukkah Harry (XD Sorry, I had to throw him in!), etc. and still have an active imagination?

I'm interested in discussing your points of view on those two subjects.

 

[Z of the Na'vi]

Either you find it or I will contact the mods and ask them to give you an infraction for unfounded slander, since you are unwilling to prove anything and I will not allow someone do speak badly of me about something I supposedly did on another thread without any proof. You wanna do that, have the proof to back it up.

You have 24 hours from the time of this post to either find what you're talking about or remove what you said before I contact the mods.

By the way, I love how THIS guy calls me professional troll when he won't even back up what he says. Lawl. That is all. XD

Once again, no thank you. I'm quite done with this thread, and Off-Topic overall, for that matter. Go ahead, continue to feel that the mods are your own personal army. You have a lot to learn about how the moderation system here works. Please do not quote me again, and submit your concerns with the moderation team at your leisure.

I already have.

Farewell.

 

[darksakul]

Regarding Santa Claus ... why do people do it? Why do people, year after year, bullshit their kids into believing that there is Santa? Why do that?

The only real reason I can see is to instill the fear of a higher authority at a young age (he sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake. He know's if you've been bad or good, SO BE GOOD FOR GOODNESS SAKE.) and, by telling them that being naughty results in no presents, forces them to be nice for some higher power.

Why don't people just outright tell their kids there is no Santa and get it over with?

Also, no, you may not turn this into a religious debate comparing it to God/Jesus/Moses/Mohammad/etc. We're talking about Santa, not God. Debates between atheists and believers never become more than flame-wars. Thank you for keeping it nice.

Watch this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Pratchett%27s_Hogfather
What one of the main characters at the end, Death him self makes a statement why mythological figures have to exist. I don't remember the line thats spoken word for word, but Death in that movie said it the best.

 

[rangerman351]

It's weird. I'm torn about this thread. I want to smack the OP and congratulate him at the same time.

Smack him because of his generally whiny emo condescending crap he writes, but he is right.

But then again, I also don't see the harm and I sure as hell don't buy no conspiracy theories. Most conspiracy theories are for the weak minded trying to prove that they "know" stuff the common masses don't.

But Santa is a symbol and as good Saint George (Carlin) said, "I leave symbols to the symbol minded..."

So maybe the OP can re-write his topic and leave out the shit and I'd be a lot more happy to fully support him as opposed ot giving him a lukewarm meh and a imaginary boot to the balls.

Also, for how I deal with ol Saint Nick... I tell the kids he's not real physically. There is no large fat man with flying moose and all that. But, I tell them what he represents is real and that they should cherish that instead of some physical being. Most kids can handle that, still get the magic and they get the realism. Best of both worlds.

And that's the magic of Christmas.
But in all seriousness, I think this is a great way to keep kids from being mad that they were lied to/ why santa was thought up.
Well done Sir!

 

[InsaneOne10]

When it comes to Santa, I was actually happier when I figured out it was my parents giving me the gifts. Also, in regards to everyone talking about how life is shit and kids should be happy, why not just teach them to have realistic expectations (which I think is what leads to a lot of disappointment) and to appreciate the joyous parts of life, not to mention the use of some escapism. Just because something seems to be harmless doesn't mean it's not an innocent part of a bigger problem in human social norms.

 

[The Virgo]

Either you find it or I will contact the mods and ask them to give you an infraction for unfounded slander, since you are unwilling to prove anything and I will not allow someone do speak badly of me about something I supposedly did on another thread without any proof. You wanna do that, have the proof to back it up.

You have 24 hours from the time of this post to either find what you're talking about or remove what you said before I contact the mods.

By the way, I love how THIS guy calls me professional troll when he won't even back up what he says. Lawl. That is all. XD

Once again, no thank you. I'm quite done with this thread, and Off-Topic overall, for that matter. Go ahead, continue to feel that the mods are your own personal army. You have a lot to learn about how the moderation system here works. Please do not quote me again, and submit your concerns with the moderation team at your leisure.

I already have.

Farewell.

I am not using the mods as my own personal army. I am trying to use them to prevent random people from slandering me who then outright refuse to back up their claims and refuse to edit out what they outright refuse to prove. And yes, I am contacting one right now.

We shall see what happens next.

Watch this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Pratchett%27s_Hogfather
What one of the main characters at the end, Death him self makes a statement why mythological figures have to exist. I don't remember the line thats spoken word for word, but Death in that movie said it the best.

Argh! I'm going to have to find that movie now! QUICK! To the Netflix!

Yeah parents are essentially lying to their children, but at that age, kids aren't really going to know the difference. Besides Santa Claus has become a symbol of cheer and generosity for this holiday season. Not necessarily commercialism, but just giving to others to make them happy. This then translates into the "being good" aspect for children. If they help others and act in a positive manner toward others then they can expect that "good karma" back in the form of presents that Santa Claus will bring. Heck I'm 22 and I still believe in Santa Claus, I don't know why it's such a big deal that others don't, or that adults aren't supposed to believe in him.

I thought that maybe the reason why you said that Santa wasn't necessarily about commercialism is because you were in a different country where things may not be so materialistic, but in checking your profile, I see that you are also an American ... and also a Virgo! Howdy!

Yes, he isn't totally a symbol of commercialism, but you can't deny that Christmas helps sell a lot of toys/games/etc. And yes, he has become a symbol of cheer, but I also have to wonder why tales of people who exist can't be used in place of him. There was recently a woman who went to a KMart in Indiana and paid off 50 KMart shopper's layaway accounts for Chirstmas. I think that would promote much more of the spirit of kindness, generosity and cheer than Santa. Then again, I might be wrong, but that's the way I see it.

By the way, here's the link to that story [http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/12/16/anonymous-donors-pay-off-kmart-layaway-accounts/], if you want to read the full thing. Yes, it's on Fox News, but it was originally by the Associated Press, but they want me to pay $1.50 for the full article. Fuck that. So, here it is, free of charge!

 

[darksakul]

Argh! I'm going to have to find that movie now! QUICK! To the Netflix!

It is on Netflix actually, it is every close to the book too.

In Diskworld they do not have Santa Claus, but they do have a similar figure, the HogFather.

Big guy with a Red Suit, rosy cheeks, fat belly, and his face resembles a pig, still has a beard, lives at the North like Santa.

The HogFather goes to house to house bringing children gifts on Hogfathers eve, children leave him pork pies and turnips for the boars that pulls his magic sleigh.

Other cultures that lack Santa do have similar figures, in Christan communities where Santa isn't talked about like Mexico, the 3 Wise men brings presents.

In the time of the Soviet Union, Soviet territories had the non-religious Father Winter instead of Santa Claus/ Father Christmas who brings good children treats on New Years eve.

The Norse once told there children Odin would come on the Winter Solstice riding on his 8 legged horse Sleipnir and will bring presents and treats to put in there socking.

Our modern deception of Santa Clase is a combination of Norse holiday tradition of Odin, the Catholic "Saint Nicholas", bit of the the 3 Wise men for good measure plus any random bits from various local legends and myth.

But why should parents tell there children about Santa?

Now that I remember Death's Dialog about the Hogsfather from that Disk world movie
I will paraphrase this so it relate to our Santa Clase

If we can't have out children believe in a little Innocent lie about Santa Claus, how we expect them to believe bigger lies when they grow up such as abstract concepts of Truth, Beauty, Morality, Justice, even right and wrong. All little lies we humans made up to make the world a more bearable place to live.

And my Closing argument
"Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus".
Actual letter written by a 8 year old girl to the editor of the New York Sun Sept. 21, 1897

This link as the article to the Letter and to the image of the original New Paper
http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/

Also the most heart warming movie involving Charles Bronson ever. No Seriously.

 

[The Virgo]

In Diskworld they do not have Santa Claus, but they do have a similar figure, the HogFather.

Big guy with a Red Suit, rosy cheeks, fat belly, and his face resembles a pig, still has a beard, lives at the North like Santa.

The HogFather goes to house to house bringing children gifts on Hogfathers eve, children leave him pork pies and turnips for the boars that pulls his magic sleigh.

That's funny you should say that, because when I was a kid, a relative told me that hillbilly kids, instead of leaving milk and cookies, left beer and pig's feet for Santa. XD

Other cultures that lack Santa do have similar figures, in Christan communities where Santa isn't talked about like Mexico, the 3 Wise men brings presents.

... Hm. That's funny because my dad is Mexican, born and raised, and he was raised with the Santa tradition. Of course, he lived close to the United States border, so they may do that in different regions. Mexico is a huge place full of many cultures and tribes, so the idea of that being the case is a huge possibility.

But speaking of Santa and Mexico, what's funny is that he was telling me that, in Mexico, he is called "Santa Claus", even though "Santa" means a female saint! XD

If we can't have out children believe in a little Innocent lie about Santa Claus, how we expect them to believe bigger lies when they grow up such as abstract concepts of Truth, Beauty, Morality, Justice, even right and wrong. All little lies we humans made up to make the world a more bearable place to live.

Wow. That is actually a cool statement. Thanks for sharing that dude! Now I need to find that movie. I'm glad it's on NetFlix. Sure, the service may often be shitty (both Watchmen discs were broken, but the second one at least played past the bad part.), but it sure is cheaper than cable and you're not stuck with 1,000 channels with nothing to watch on any of them. |:-/

And my Closing argument
"Yes Virginia there is a Santa Claus".
Actual letter written by a 8 year old girl to the editor of the New York Sun Sept. 21, 1897

This link as the article to the Letter and to the image of the original New Paper
http://www.newseum.org/yesvirginia/

Also the most heart warming movie involving Charles Bronson ever. No Seriously.

Charles Bronson? Heartwarming? (o)_(O) Wow. And someone actually posted that same article here before you, but he did not provide the link. Thanks!

 

[Itsthefuzz]

I feel like there is nice room for discussion here, but not any that would convince the OP otherwise that Santa Clause is a just a fun thing. I usually don't try to persuade the anyone who makes a topic since it almost never works, but I guess in the topic for discussion is still interesting. (This is just my own opinion that IN GENERAL Opinion based topics of discussion never seem to persuade anyone to change their opinion. Maybe acknowledge something they didn't notice before, but never say "Oh well actually, your argument makes more sense than mine so I guess I was wrong." Myself included is affected by this.)

Santa Claus is a lie, and yeah you could argue there isn't a point of lying to your kids just to tell them later it was BS. But as many others have brought up.. it's just fun. It's magic. The looks and the joy every year for the kids who think this mythical man is bringing EVERYONE toys and joy on Christmas is just cool. The world doesn't actually work that way, but life is short. Let them have their fun now and learn how cold this place can be later.

 

[darksakul]

... Hm. That's funny because my dad is Mexican, born and raised, and he was raised with the Santa tradition. Of course, he lived close to the United States border, so they may do that in different regions. Mexico is a huge place full of many cultures and tribes, so the idea of that being the case is a huge possibility.

But speaking of Santa and Mexico, what's funny is that he was telling me that, in Mexico, he is called "Santa Claus", even though "Santa" means a female saint! XD

No One perfect.

Charles Bronson? Heartwarming? (o)_(O) Wow. And someone actually posted that same article here before you, but he did not provide the link. Thanks!

Yeah I know it sounds weird, but a Actor known for violent action films does a nice family friendly Christmas Movie based on a real story. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103305/

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Why not? I mean, I would use that as a way to make my kids behave if I had (much less wanted) any. And I am sure that I am not the only one who has thought of doing that. And I am sure many more have used this tactic to do so.

But really, you have to admit that Santa has become a marketing ploy these days. If it wasn't for him and the promise of gifts to the good girls and boys, our economy would be worse than it is. No, I take that back: CHINA'S economy would be hit hard. I suppose that it's a good thing, but it's also a bad thing. Why can't Christmas also be about time with one's family, rather than about the gifts Santa bring?

Why should you pity me for looking at things like that?

Yeah, it's very possible that a lot of parents use Santa and Christmas as an excuse to get their kids to behave, but I like to think that there are parents that don't need to use something like Christmas to make their kids to behave. I don't think it's so absurd that kids are actually well behaved all year round, despite the bad press they get.

As for the Christmas with the family thing; it usually is. For kids it isn't because it's family time all year round, but once these kids grow up and get out into the world presents take a back seat and family time (and a fucking great meal) take first place.

And yet, look all over the world in countries where Santa isn't taught. There are just as many creative and happy kids. To say that the total removal of all non-entities from a child's life will turn him into a cold, lifeless husk, like the people in charge of EA Games, is absurd. I will grant you that there may be a more noticable creative difference between those who once believed and those who did not, but it is not entirely the case. Especially if they are never taught about it in the first place.

Also, I am curious as to how children develop if they do not have an active imagination. An active imagination is great, don't misunderstand me for one second, but if a child doesn't have an active imagination, will they still do good in school? Maybe they'll excel in other fields like sports, politics, philosophy, medical, business, law, etc. And is it not possible for a child to be taught that there is no Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, Paul Bunion, Hanukkah Harry (XD Sorry, I had to throw him in!), etc. and still have an active imagination?

I'm interested in discussing your points of view on those two subjects.

I'd agree that the removal of non-entities wouldn't make that big a difference in the long run, but while they're kids they'd have less fun with these events. Kids make a lot of their own fun using their imagination, these creations by the parent are really just trying to perpetuate the fun they had, rather than stimulate imagination. That part was me exaggerating the importance.

Having an active imagination doesn't necessarily mean they'll do well in school if it does it'll focus more on creative subjects, I think it has more to do with psychological development and, to a lesser extent, just throwing it out there, social skills. I could talk about this but it's not exactly my area of expertise, I just know imagination is important, particularly seeing it expressed, most often through play.

 

[crispskittlez]

It's good fun, and it makes the world that little bit more magical. Also it's an excuse to get your children to behave.

This, so much of this. I have a little brother, and he would be intolerable around Christmas time if he couldn't be threatened by a lump of coal.