Roe v Wade discussions in the supreme court.
- Thread starter Specter Von Baren
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That is because this is something you cannot prove without a way to peek into an alternate dimension. Only cranks are attempting it via dodgy math and an Argentinian teacher's strike that happened less than a lifetime ago.
You're lying again. You said that the majority agrees with you. They do not.
We didn't even have lockdowns in the US, so fuck of with that shit.
You're the one making the original truth claims. The burden of proof is on you.
Red states are less vaccinated because anti-disease control sentiment was allowed to run roughshod through right-wing media, politicians and other mouthpieces: anti-mask, anti-lockdown, anti-vaccine. Much of that due to the Trump administration's - chiefly of course Trump himself - catastrophic mishandling of public health communications.
Trump's serial incompetence meant he ended up repeatedly contradicted by his own experts who, mortifyingly for that narcissist, were better trusted than Trump. This caused Trump and his political and media allies to protect Trump's reputation by attacking government personnel, agencies, state governors, and anything else who dared contradict the bloviating orange braggart, thus degrading trust even more.
Anyway, back to Roe v Wade news:
Supreme court decided 5-4 to not shut down Texas's bullshit bounty law until a case winds through the court system, *and* that you can't sue state officials over it, because what's good for the goose is definitely not good for the gander in Texas.
Which means there's nothing in place to stop this exact same bullshit from popping up in other states. I'm expecting 6 more versions of this law by February.
Supreme court decided 5-4 to not shut down Texas's bullshit bounty law until a case winds through the court system, *and* that you can't sue state officials over it, because what's good for the goose is definitely not good for the gander in Texas.
Which means there's nothing in place to stop this exact same bullshit from popping up in other states. I'm expecting 6 more versions of this law by February.
Trump was pro vaccine.
Trump even at one point, pointed out he had his mask with him and planned to put it on / back on when appropriate because he walked on stage not wearing it and not making a show while Biden wore it right until he was at the podium for the debate.
A kooky religious belief is not something all religious people believe in, hence the "kooky" part of it. Everyone agrees with you shouldn't kill someone, it's not some weird leap to say a fetus is human life. I'm not religious at all, never went to church, don't believe in god, and I find abortion immoral. You can convince me that it's morally OK on a case-by-case basis but just generally, nope. Then you got the whole "line" of when it's OK and not OK that you'll never get agreement on. You could probably convince me that X weeks or earlier is OK based on science and how a fetus develops, but I don't care all that much about the debate honestly, plus everyone will have their own opinion on that as well. I'm just pointing out how it's not some weird thing that people would care very strongly about wanting abortion either against the law or extreme limitations on it.
When have the democrats changed their tune on masks or natural immunity? Because masking or vaccinating everyone is not based on science. 10s of thousands died from covid early on in the vaccine rollouts because we told everyone to get vaccinated instead of the high risk people. Why are democrats wanting to vaccinate kids for them to be able to go to school when that's not what the science says? Here's German data showing not a single healthy 5-11 year old has died of covid. Why do the kids NEED to get the vaccine then when the flu is more deadly and they aren't mandated to get a flu vaccine?
Just because life lost to the harms of covid restrictions don't have a nicely visible scoreboard doesn't mean those harms don't exist. It was already predicted the current young generation was going to have less life expectancy due to mental health issues BEFORE the pandemic and you think the pandemic restrictions improved mental health? You already had 20,000 more deaths from overdoses in 2020 than you had in 2019, that's a very real number that actually happened. You have kids having a large increase in obesity due to the pandemic as well, bad diets lead to shorter lives. Kids saw in huge dip in overall vaccinations for other diseases as well. There was also a huge dip in detecting child abuse because that mainly happens because of school that was closed (for no reason). What we've done to kids has been a massive tragedy.
Here's a cost-benefit analysis from Ireland and it didn't even considered the implications of delaying medical screenings and diagnosis for example. Find me a single cost-benefit analysis that has shown lockdowns have done more benefit than harm.
I was off by 1%, big whoop. It's not like say 10% or 20% of the population finds abortion morally unacceptable and they're just the vocal minority. It's almost exactly half. It's not some dumb religious thing people are trying to force on others.
Then go tell the millions and millions of people that lost their jobs (and businesses) and their HEALTH INSURANCE during a pandemic that there were no lockdowns. When I say lockdowns and reporters ask if there'll be more lockdowns in a press conference, they don't mean Chinese level lockdowns, they mean stuff like non-essential business closing, stay at home orders, school closures, etc (you know, the stuff we did). People refer to that stuff as "lockdowns". If there were no lockdowns, then why was their eviction moratoriums put in place?
Here ya go, this was like the only state death rates I could find that wasn't recent to date. Looks like this data was last updated on Feb 2, 2021. I was looking for age adjusted covid deaths per 100k by state for just 2020 (pre-vaccine basically). Looking at that data, how are you gonna tell me democrat covid policy was much better than republican covid policy in saving lives from covid? Look at Illinois and Indiana basically the same when one state was far more restrictive than the other. Look at Florida doing just fine when everyone was saying DeSantis is killing everyone. And Florida did average when you didn't even adjust for age as they have like the 2nd highest elderly population IIRC in US and when you adjust for age, their numbers are even better. And all of that is in a state that was basically open the entire pandemic.
Data Visualization | COVID-19 Death Rates by State | The Heritage Foundation
Death rates from COVID-19 vary broadly from one state to the other. Most notable are those handful of states with rates significantly higher than the overall national rate. From @HeritageDataViz
datavisualizations.heritage.org
Where's your proof?
What proof do you have that masks and lockdowns have done anything? Right above I posted the covid deaths per state for 2020 and there's no obvious data of red states doing worse than blue states. What anti-vaccine messaging is there in conservative media? Anti-mandate is not anti-vax. Democrats issued mandates and shamed people, that doesn't get people to do what you want and we know this from the HIV pandemic. People on the fence about the vaccine will become even more staunchly against it when you force them to get it. That's not saying republicans and their media don't have faults but pinning all on them is very disingenuous. What actual republican policy has made less people get vaccines or made vaccines less available in red states? The actual biggest problem is merely the political divide and people not wanting to do what the other side says regardless if it makes sense or not. That's both sides like the democrat areas closing schools made no sense but they did it because Trump was for schools reopening. Just like republican areas being more against vaccines just because the democrats like them so much. The media is probably the main fault (both sides) for pushing the narrative that the left/right sucks and everything they do is stupid as CNN is as much of a joke as FOX news.
Yes it is. Abortion was not an issue until Jerry Falwell made it one. You're just marching in lock step to his tune.
And it's not so much that you were off by a percentage point. It's that you either lied about it or didn't vet your source and just assumed the majority agreed with you.
Glad to. Because that wasn't a proper lockdown, that was just what happens during a natural disaster.
Then they're wrong.
Because it was a natural disaster preventing people from getting to work (fuck anyone who says I need to put my life on the line for some bougie's bottom line) and we live in a system where the landlords themselves sure as hell weren't going to volunteer to absorb the costs.
1. That's the Heritage Foundation. All of their data is suspect until vetted.Here ya go, this was like the only state death rates I could find that wasn't recent to date. Looks like this data was last updated on Feb 2, 2021. I was looking for age adjusted covid deaths per 100k by state for just 2020 (pre-vaccine basically). Looking at that data, how are you gonna tell me democrat covid policy was much better than republican covid policy in saving lives from covid? Look at Illinois and Indiana basically the same when one state was far more restrictive than the other. Look at Florida doing just fine when everyone was saying DeSantis is killing everyone. And Florida did average when you didn't even adjust for age as they have like the 2nd highest elderly population IIRC in US and when you adjust for age, their numbers are even better. And all of that is in a state that was basically open the entire pandemic.
Data Visualization | COVID-19 Death Rates by State | The Heritage Foundation
Death rates from COVID-19 vary broadly from one state to the other. Most notable are those handful of states with rates significantly higher than the overall national rate. From @HeritageDataViz
2. If you want non-partisan evidence, here's a list of Covid death rates per 100,000 people by state. You have noted that the top is a mix of blue and red states. But consider....
3. If you look at the data, Covd is hitting hardest in two kinds of places: areas with extremely high population density (e.g. New York, New Jersey) and solidly red states where the Republican response to Covid is to be pro-Covid. Red states tend to have a lower population density and fewer metropolises like NYC or LA. This matters because the greater the population density, the greater the ease of transmission by the virus.
4. Incidentally, these same low density population states also have the worst vaccination rates. This makes transmission of the virus much easier as fewer bodies are equipped to fight back. You're looking only at total deaths in isolation from all other statistics. Obviously states with lower populations and population density are going to see fewer deaths total. But when you look at the data, the rate at which people are dying is clearly the worst in red states. Per capita their populations are being hit the hardest.
5. The attitude of people like yourself has dramatically helped the spread of the virus, prolonged the pandemic, and indirectly caused the rise of new variants.
I don't know whether you knew all of this and deliberately obfuscated it from your argument or if you're genuinely just that ignorant. Frankly, I'm done caring which one it is.
Republicans really want to lose the midterms, don't they? like the midterms were probably there's before this because Democrat voters would probably be less interested in voting because of the slowness of the Democratic Party but now they have a rallying cry. the midterms are going to be brutal to the Republicans
Yeah, hopefully this helps the midterm by making it about abortion with some particularly insane bounty laws. 'Cause the Dems aren't winning on their own
Oh Christ but you understand so little.
Lockdowns don't - in the long term - stop people dying of disease: it's more that they kick the can down the road. The purpose of a lockdown is to break the rapid transmission of a disease when the number of people ill starts becoming so high that it threatens to overwhelm the capacity of health services. If the health services become overwhelmed, deaths maginify at a very alarming rate, not only from the disease itself but also a load of other health problems that can no longer be treated either. Ideally of course the can may be able to be kicked down the road long enough so that a therapy can be developed. Bear in mind that over 1000 Americans a day are dying of covid, even though most of the adult population is vaccinated. What would we be looking at if they were not? What does this suggest to us about how bad it could have been without any alternative control before the vaccine?
Quite likely there were ineffective lockdowns, because some authorities shut everything down at an inappropriate time. Lockdowns also exist within a wider body of public health measures, and thus will have at best a severely muted effect where the other measures are nonexistant or poor. There's also plentiful evidence that in many states, application of lockdown was inconsistent or undermined (even by something as simple as civil disobedience).
When I think about shitty and stupid public health comms, you are a prime example of what happens with such a failure. In the absence of a clear and reliable message, people latch onto whatever bullshit passes their way, and delude themselves they're enlightened geniuses who "follow the science", where everyone else are just dumb sheeple.
Dangerous transmissions: anti-vax radio shows reach millions in US while stars die of Covid
Media watchdogs suggest that some basic level of responsibility to the public should be required to keep a broadcast license
www.theguardian.com
Unfortunately a lot of those places are getting hit harder by the 2nd wave in the end anyway. I know because I know some people in said areas who have been posting on social media about how great it was being Covid free until the 2nd wave and it was lockdown and as much chaos there as most other countries during the first wave if not worse.
Just going to throw a few more sources on top of the Guardian one in the hope that maybe he'll read at least one of them.Oh Christ but you understand so little.
Lockdowns don't - in the long term - stop people dying of disease: it's more that they kick the can down the road. The purpose of a lockdown is to break the rapid transmission of a disease when the number of people ill starts becoming so high that it threatens to overwhelm the capacity of health services. If the health services become overwhelmed, deaths maginify at a very alarming rate, not only from the disease itself but also a load of other health problems that can no longer be treated either. Ideally of course the can may be able to be kicked down the road long enough so that a therapy can be developed. Bear in mind that over 1000 Americans a day are dying of covid, even though most of the adult population is vaccinated. What would we be looking at if they were not? What does this suggest to us about how bad it could have been without any alternative control before the vaccine?
Quite likely there were ineffective lockdowns, because some authorities shut everything down at an inappropriate time. Lockdowns also exist within a wider body of public health measures, and thus will have at best a severely muted effect where the other measures are nonexistant or poor. There's also plentiful evidence that in many states, application of lockdown was inconsistent or undermined (even by something as simple as civil disobedience).
When I think about shitty and stupid public health comms, you are a prime example of what happens with such a failure. In the absence of a clear and reliable message, people latch onto whatever bullshit passes their way, and delude themselves they're enlightened geniuses who "follow the science", where everyone else are just dumb sheeple.
Dangerous transmissions: anti-vax radio shows reach millions in US while stars die of Covid
Media watchdogs suggest that some basic level of responsibility to the public should be required to keep a broadcast license
Despite Outbreaks Among Unvaccinated, Fox News Hosts Smear Shots (Published 2021)
Months after Rupert Murdoch got a Covid-19 vaccine dose, one of his network’s stars, Tucker Carlson, called a Biden vaccination proposal “the greatest scandal in my lifetime.”
Tucker Carlson Makes Totally Untrue Statement About Vaccines, Citing 'Science'
The Fox News personality told his vast audience there's "no difference" in the way vaccinated and unvaccinated people spread COVID-19. That's false.
The Republican anti-vax delusion
America’s vaccination programme is stalling. Populist conservatives are to blame
Suddenly, Conservatives Care About Vaccines
A number of leaders on the right suddenly urged their audiences to get vaccinated in the past day. Why now?
www.theatlantic.com
He won't. The reason I put him on ignore is that every word he writes is an attempt to justify his viewpoint that we should all have been willing to die rather than inconvenience him with lockdowns.
Yet his supporters are almost universally anti.
I'll admit, considering how his cult considers him the chosen one by God to rule the world, that one does confound...