RPGs defined

[bismarck55]

RPGs are wargames wherein you control an individual defined by numbers so as to separate player skill/knowledge/ability and character skill/knowledge/abilty. It is not about choices, story or any of that bullshit. NetHack = RPG, Mass Effect = chest-high-wall-shooter.

Anyone agree?

 

[NeutralDrow]

Sure, why not.

Basically, you just defined RPGs by their stat systems. I'm not sure I can think of a labeled RPG that doesn't follow that.

 

[Iron Lightning]

I challenge the internet to show me a visible statistic lacking game that is unarguably an RPG. If someone can find this, well then I suppose I'd have to disagree with the OP.

 

[AllLagNoFrag]

RPG's are also known as rocket propelled grenades...

OT: Well, role-playing games are where you play a role in the game's story. If you want to get right down to the specifics, any game labelled an rpg is an rpg. You play a role of a character after all. What you defined is a specific type of rpg. Mass Effect is an rpg in the way that you play the ROLE Commander Sheperd, a main character in a universe.

IMO how you differentiated NetHack and Mass Effect apart from eah other was by their gameplay, not the genre.

 

[NeutralDrow]

IMO how you differentiated NetHack and Mass Effect apart from eah other was by their gameplay, not the genre.

That's what defines a game genre. It's why shooters, platformers, and fighting games are considered different genres.

 

[TheSquirrelisKing]

Amber "dice less" RPGs have been around for a long time, but if we are speaking only of videogame RPGs, I suppose that is as good a definition as any.
*Edit* Correct me if I'm wrong but do I sense some hostility in that definition OP?

 

[bismarck55]

RPG's are also known as rocket propelled grenades...

OT: Well, role-playing games are where you play a role in the game's story. If you want to get right down to the specifics, any game labelled an rpg is an rpg. You play a role of a character after all. What you defined is a specific type of rpg. Mass Effect is an rpg in the way that you play the ROLE Commander Sheperd, a main character in a universe.

IMO how you differentiated NetHack and Mass Effect apart from eah other was by their gameplay, not the genre.

That makes no sense whatsoever, genre is defined by gameplay (when referring to games).

 

[AllLagNoFrag]

IMO how you differentiated NetHack and Mass Effect apart from eah other was by their gameplay, not the genre.

That's what defines a game genre. It's why shooters, platformers, and fighting games are considered different genres.

I sit here at my laptop corrected. Well, in the games you do play a role nonetheless. However, I still treat Mass Effect as a role playing game more than anything else. Then again, unlike the thread starter I did factor in choice making...

But yeah, the core of an rpg is still stats/abilities

 

[Omikron009]

I wholeheartedly disagree. I define an RPG as a game in which you play a role. That sounds stupid, I know, but bear with me. A game where you play as a character whose experience you shape through your choices and interactions with other characters is an RPG. It doesn't matter whether or not there are levels or experience points or stats. I would actually present Mass Effect as one of the best examples of what I'd consider an RPG. It goes against my definition somewhat in that the plot isn't completely altered based on your decisions, but you can create a unique individual character.

 

[bismarck55]

Amber "dice less" RPGs have been around for a long time, but if we are speaking only of videogame RPGs, I suppose that is as good a definition as any.
*Edit* Correct me if I'm wrong but do I sense some hostility in that definition OP?

Plenty of hostility. I got worked up reading the turn based games thread (turns systems being intimately related to RPGs, I decided to post this, seeing as there seem to be plenty of misconceptions relating to both subjects).

 

[starwarsgeek]

RPGs are wargames wherein you control an individual defined by numbers so as to separate player skill/knowledge/ability and character skill/knowledge/abilty. It is not about choices, story or any of that bullshit. NetHack = RPG, Mass Effect = chest-high-wall-shooter.

Anyone agree?

I partially (well...mostly) agree, but I'd like to add some things.

Firstly, I consider Mass Effect and games like it "Role-Playing Shooters," since it uses mechanics of both genres (similar to Action-Adventure games. Legend of Zelda uses reflex gameplay, which isn't usually found in adventure games, and it uses puzzels, exploration, ect., which aren't typically found in action games)

Also, I'd also add in "Choose Your Own Adventure" as an element of RPGs. While certainly not required, CYOA doesn't really fit with any other established genre, nor does it do enough to count as a genre by itself, and player choice has always been a part of rpgs through optional "side quests" and, sometimes, class and character choices (both dating back at least as far as Final Fantasy 1). As technology advanced, so did the possibilities of this element.

Edit: To further explain, the most famous pen and paper RPG--and thus, the most famous precurser to video game RPGs--is, of course, Dungeons and Dragons. From my understanding (I have unfortunately never gotten a chance to play), it uses randomly determined dice rolls and character stats, customizable classes, and theorectically limitless player freedom. In other words, stat-based gameplay, customability, and choices are all elements of the RPG...of course, not all are required to determine if a given game is an RPG.

 

[The Blue Mongoose]

For me, an RPG is a game in which you construct a character, guide their progress through the game, make their choices for them... Basically a game in which you can play any role you want.

Deus Ex for me is a good example of an RPG, you can play JC as whatever you'd like, kill everyone, kill no one, become God etc.

Fallout 3 would not be a true RPG for me, it has RPG elements, but you're very limited in what you can actually do.

Demon's Souls would also not be an RPG, because you don't make any choices that affect the story (that I've seen so far! I have yet to finish it, but there has been zero conversation so far...).

Fable and inFamous also fall short of my RPG bar, just because the story is so rigidly constructed and you don't really have much of a choice. It's just Good or Bad.

Fallout 1 and 2, probably form the basis of my definition, because they were two of my first RPGs.

 

[Valkyrie101]

I wholeheartedly disagree. I define an RPG as a game in which you play a role. That sounds stupid, I know, but bear with me. A game where you play as a character whose experience you shape through your choices and interactions with other characters is an RPG. It doesn't matter whether or not there are levels or experience points or stats. I would actually present Mass Effect as one of the best examples of what I'd consider an RPG. It goes against my definition somewhat in that the plot isn't completely altered based on your decisions, but you can create a unique individual character.

Precisely my thoughts. A lot of people seem to hold the view that RPGs are defined by lots of lots of numbers. I disagree. An RPG is, or should be, a game in which you create and shape a character, with emphasis on characters and story, choices and consequences. it would be quite possible to take away all of the levels, stats etc from Mass Effect and it would still be an excellent RPG, because it offers choices and interactions.

 

[Chamale]

An RPG is a game in which you play a role - you create a character for said role, and act as a character in said role. All of this "statistics" bullshit was invented to force players to remain in character.

I challenge the internet to show me a statistic-lacking game that is unarguably an RPG. If someone can find this, well then I suppose I'd have to disagree with the OP.

I'd like to see a game without statistics. Show me that and you'll have divided by 0.

Park Bench. It's not a video game, it's not a game with statistics, it's a game based on fun and the principle that players should play a role other than the one they normally have.

Mafia is closer to a "traditional" RPG than Park Bench, but it's still very far removed and not a video game.

Pokemon, though fun, is barely an RPG. You can't really play a unique role, since you're forced into specific actions by the plot. Because Dungeons and Dragons included statistics and role-playing, however, some people consider statistics and random chance to be the basis of a "Role-Playing Game".

 

[starwarsgeek]

Pokemon, though fun, is barely an RPG. You can't really play a unique role, since you're forced into specific actions by the plot. Because Dungeons and Dragons included statistics and role-playing, however, some people consider statistics and random chance to be the basis of a "Role-Playing Game".

Tell me, how many pokemon can you chose between now? It puts the likes of even Oblivion to shame as far as class customablility. Story isn't the only place a player can make a choice