S&P has downgraded U.S.A credit rating from AAA to AA+

[Korolev]

It was conservatives who wanted a war with Iraq over WMDs that didn't exist. It was the conservatives who pushed for more and more and more and more and more and more defence spending, crying out that the Democrats were "Yella-bellies" because they cut the massively unneeded F-22 raptor jet. It was the Conservatives who originally pushed for the bail out under G.W Bush in 07-08.

"We cannot allow a mine shaft technology gap!"

God I laughed my ass off when I saw that movie for the first time, because I immediately thought of all the rhetoric surrounding the F-22 program.

The thing is, we really do need the fighter. But, not so much the fighter, as the idea of the fighter. That fighter is the sum result of decades of scientific endeavor, that everyone thought was useless. It proves, that somewhere down the line, even the craziest scientific notion or bit of hyper-expensive impractical technology WILL have a use.

But, we also need the fighters themselves. However, we don't need a whole fleet of them, as they would be too damned expensive! The Russians actually had a brilliant idea when faced with their potential bill when faced with the Su-47 and Su-50 projects. They have a reduced fleet of Gen 5 fighters(stealth fighters) and augment and support that fleet with Gen 4 +++ fighters(essentially non-stealth fighters made with modern tech) The Gen 4+++ fighters (Su-35, look them up, they are sexy as hell) are perfectly capable of engaging Gen 5 fighters, they just have lower survivability. However, their increased numbers and ordnance loads give them a huge advantage. The difference, is that the Su-35 costs ~$60 million and the Su-50 costs ~$150 million.

You have a good point: better fighters will allow the US to stop maintaining older jets. I suppose I didn't think about it from that perspective. However, would they actually stop maintaining the jets? I remember (well, I don't really remember it since I wasn't alive at the time, but I remember hearing) that back in the 1950's and 60's, the US pushed for more nuclear weapons to allow it to cut back on its conventional spending. You know, More Nukes = Frightened Russians = No need for tanks. But it didn't quite work out that way, because they already had the tanks and they didn't want to scrap them.

But I also really do like your point that the technology behind the F-22 could be used for good. It's always a good idea to push for a scientific breakthrough. However, it just galls me that you've got Republicans who cry out that spending is too high, yet.... they spend just as much as the democrats! It's really surprising that this whole "Conservatives = frugal while Democrats = cash splash", when from my perspective.... none of them cut spending. None of them can! The largest portions of the US budget are Medicare, Social Security, Education and Defence. And you can't cut any of them without facing a revolt at the polls!

So what about this idea: Instead of cutting spending for advances in technology, they increase it three-fold. Yes, they'll have to borrow some money, but the new technology could then be used to create new industries to pay off the debt faster!

 

[Worgen]

we should just go to war with china, that way we dont owe them any money

*snip*

there is one thing we still make, weapons, and we are pretty good at it, they might have 300,000,000 solders but that doesnt mean much with automatic weapons and bombs etc etc, besides, really unless we nuke each other, neither of us really has anything to gain from a war, neither country would want to occupy the other one, we would benefit because we could wipe out our debt and force jobs to come back here, ultimately a war with china benefits us the most, assuming that nukes dont get involved

The problem is that we, not you and me and the rest of the common folk, but the ones with money, don't want jobs here. If China were to get sucked into a black hole, we'd find some other country to do our labor. Why? To save $4 an hour per employee. :'-(

they would try but its harder then you think, india would be an obvious choice but still, if the proper incentives are offered we would at least get some jobs and such back

You're still forgetting that China has the US by the balls not just because they make everything americans use, but because they own enough bonds to crash America just by releasing them to the market.

really we just have to refuse to honor bonds that china bought from us and boom, no more debt but thats why I said war, its the easiest way to wipe a debt

 

[aprildog18]

How many trillions of dollars does the American national debt come to? I doubt anyone else could get so far in and remain a country.

Now when someone wants to say a big number, they don't say it is an "astronomical number" but an "economical number".

OP
We should just bribe the Big Three credit rating agencies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Three_%28credit_rating_agencies%29 to rate us.

From Albert Wesker himself (or Legion if you go that way)!

 

[notimeforlulz]

How many trillions of dollars does the American national debt come to? I doubt anyone else could get so far in and remain a country.

Have it in Real Time! [http://www.usdebtclock.org/]

As of posting, the debt clock is going up 10x faster than the tax revenue.

That is why the tea party are at fault for this. Because the tax revenue, is 10% of the interest on the debt. If anyone looks at that clock and says "Don't raise taxes" tell them to look again.

EDIT:
US$30k debt/second
US$3k tax revenue/second

 

[gabe12301]

How many trillions of dollars does the American national debt come to? I doubt anyone else could get so far in and remain a country.

Have it in Real Time! [http://www.usdebtclock.org/]

oh goodie! what i've always wanted! *gets popcorn*

 

[notimeforlulz]

Sorry, but the problem wasn't the greedy billionaires, it was the greedy politicians who seriously believed that they could spend a nation's wealth beyond its means, and when confronted with limits to the debt they accrued, whined and cried for the limit to be raised, falsely proclaiming doomsday would be upon us if we didn't. I could have sworn I said this before, but how exactly does accumulating more debt solve the problem of too much debt?

That was the crime the current leading party in Australia was guilty of and during the recession. But, their financial guarantee of financial institutions turned our country in to a place where a man could put his funds to weather the storm, with free government insurance of their money; and the government never had to pay those guarantees because the banks stayed stable.

They also spent too much money on work place reform, and they spent a whole wad to lessen the effects of the recession.

Now in Australia we have had a tax hike in the rich. It's a one-of one-year tax hike, and it's going to a government the right criticizes a thousand times a day for over spending. And I've criticized them myself of over spending.

But you know what? We'll be out of debt by 2012. Yeah... The leftists have actually saved our country from financial ruin. I never thought I'd ever say that... But look how our dollar is trading! The last time we had a recession we had the right in power, and our dollar sunk like a cannonball.

 

[Vankraken]

Just another bit of proof that the government is run by people who's job is suppose to be representing the citizens of the area they are elected from but instead care about the corporate and special interest groups that back their election campaign and about using politics to make money. The current business trend is to slash and burn with zero concern the "lesser" people in order to make a short term buck. Government is following the trend and each day cares less about hiding the fact.

 

[notimeforlulz]

while not directly related what i never got is why you Americans only allow yourselves to have opinions in blocks? you can either support the Republicans or the Democrats in all their ideas or pick one that is very important to you and stick with that. Where is the choice to want low taxes and keep weird religious ideas out of schools?
also why does your country suck so much at collecting and spending taxes?

our country kind of naturally became a 2 party system it wasnt setup this way, it just happened because there wasnt anything stopping it from happening, really it comes down to one more liberal party and one conservative, the conservative party aka republicans (originally they were the liberal party but once the dems decided to back civil rights they went right wing) is currently getting allot of pressure from a group called the tea party which is really super conservative and doesnt want any taxes at all so the republican stand point is no taxes but they dont seem to realize that doing things costs money

I thought the no taxes party was the libertarians? How the f--k do I know which party extreme conservatives in America should be supporting if they don't.....

 

[RaNDM G]

Oh no. S&P marked the nation's credit down half of a letter grade. The country is going to Hell. Things could not possibly get any worse.
/sarcasm

 

[ResonanceSD]

Yay, hopefully you guys will now be able to get a better handle on "DON'T SPEND MONEY YOU DON'T HAVE"

 

[Tiger Sora]

America is a big bloated corpse waiting to explode and rain pestilence upon the world. 14.5 trillion dollars in debt. A hole that without DRASTIC action right now they'll never get out of. The damn thing nearly blew up afew days ago. Living beyond it's means is an understatement.

Monday when the stock markets open I bet they're just going to fall even worse than they did yesterday.

Hello recession again. You moved back to the block eh? Living in a refrigerator box! Are you kidding me, the rents outrageous. Ahh how humor helps.

 

[RaNDM G]

America is a big bloated corpse waiting to explode and rain pestilence upon the world.

Wow, that's pretty dark.

You moved back to the block eh? Living in a refrigerator box! Are you kidding me, the rents outrageous.

Are you willing to say the rent... is too damn high?

 

[lacktheknack]

Maybe I'm just horribly naive or short-sighted, but falling from AAA to AA+...

Isn't that kind of like falling from 100% to 98%? Considering that the USA is ~$15 trillion in debt, how do you still manage such a high credit rating?

 

[Tiger Sora]

America is a big bloated corpse waiting to explode and rain pestilence upon the world.

Wow, that's pretty dark.

You moved back to the block eh? Living in a refrigerator box! Are you kidding me, the rents outrageous.

Are you willing to say the rent... is too damn high?

It is dark, I wasn't gona sugar coat. It ain't like my avatar where it's all fun and rainbows.

The rent is to damn high. The debts too damn high. And the skyscrapers all the bankers and CEO's are in that very much helped this problem..... are to damn high. I'd vote for that man, but since I live in Canada I can't.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

while not directly related what i never got is why you Americans only allow yourselves to have opinions in blocks? you can either support the Republicans or the Democrats in all their ideas or pick one that is very important to you and stick with that. Where is the choice to want low taxes and keep weird religious ideas out of schools?
also why does your country suck so much at collecting and spending taxes?

our country kind of naturally became a 2 party system it wasnt setup this way, it just happened because there wasnt anything stopping it from happening, really it comes down to one more liberal party and one conservative, the conservative party aka republicans (originally they were the liberal party but once the dems decided to back civil rights they went right wing) is currently getting allot of pressure from a group called the tea party which is really super conservative and doesnt want any taxes at all so the republican stand point is no taxes but they dont seem to realize that doing things costs money

I thought the no taxes party was the libertarians? How the f--k do I know which party extreme conservatives in America should be supporting if they don't.....

The tea party isn't really a political party; it's more of a far right wing coalition, which has republicans, libertarians, and (for the activists at least, I don't know of any congressional Tea Partiers that fit this description) even a few DINOs in its ranks. While some states have a registered Tea Party, the majority of Tea Partiers will tell you that there's no such thing as an organized political party called the Tea Party -- a few independent candidates claim it as their party, but for the most part, it's for ultra right wingers regardless of political party.

 

[RaNDM G]

Maybe I'm just horribly naive or short-sighted, but falling from AAA to AA+...

Isn't that kind of like falling from 100% to 98%? Considering that the USA is ~$15 trillion in debt, how do you still manage such a high credit rating?

You've hit the nail right on the head. Big companies and the media like to stir up commotion, even over a few trivial numbers. We should stay focused on what is going on in Congress instead of listening to corporations spewing "facts."

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

And yet, still the bankers are safely secured in their little money bins.

Everyone else pays for the mistakes of the incompetent few.

Except...which country is actually worse off than the US? Given the world's financial situation, has anything actually changed?

Or have we just been fed another scare story designed to make us toe the line further?

What actual change to our lives will that mean? Anything?

Because if it doesn't, then it's just like another child dying in Somalia. A tragedy that only effects us because we're being blamed for it. And we know who the real blame should go on.

 

[Indeterminacy]

But we got deep flaws in our political system when it took that fucking long to cut the political bickering and agree on a damned deal. Whatever happened to doing the damned job?

The fundamental inability of America's political system to decide what to do is not a result of a flaw in the system itself.

Garbage in, garbage out.

America just has too deep a divide between its political parties. Its entirely democratically and fairly elected political parties are doing their job exactly as they're supposed to - they're following up on their electoral mandate. It just so happens that these mandates are, across the board, incompatible.

There's a debate going on in R/P that America should split. I think what this move shows is that it's getting to the point now where not doing so will have very real and potentially very dangerous consequences.

 

[Greatjusticeman]

we should just go to war with china, that way we dont owe them any money

Let's see ...

China has 300,000,000 soldiers.

The entire population of the US is about 300,000,000

This means that basically, if every man, woman and child, including criminals, the mentally unfit, infants, you, me and retirees were to arm themselves and go to war, the soldier ratio would be about 1 to 1.

Besides, look around your house at different items. Find the ones that say, "MADE IN CHINA". Now, remove those items. They kind of have us by the balls. We have no industry. We, as a nation, have lost the ability to build things. The things that we DO build usually fall apart just as fast as the Chinese stuff. Remember, those sweat shops in China that make things that we use every day are owned by the same greedy bastards who outsourced the jobs over there so they wouldn't have to pay as much. If they owned factories here, they'd still have the same mentality: "Make it cheap; who cares if it falls apart in a week?"

I just want to point out that quantity doesn't mean quality. Our military is much better equipped then they are. They may have a billion soldiers but they don't have high-tech equipment like our soldiers. They also don't have an air force nor a navy that can match ours as well. Also, ever heard of The Battle of Mt. Thermoplyae?

Economically we would be screwed. But industries could be built and there should come a time when we shouldn't have to import everything from China.