Serial Killer Game 73: Digital Infection - Round 2 Voting End 8AM Nov 25th

[Jux]

So then why did you message me? I mean, I was just being a doofus.

A few reasons. If I only focused on Warys group, it might look suspicious if I was ever called to release screenshots. And I tell you, I spent an hour a day at least falsifying screenshots, and updating them to account for new messages. Also, I was scouting for potential traitors, in case me and arma had to start fresh.

Well you were barking up the wrong tree, I'm too dumb to be a traitor.

I was just happy when you used your ability to off fractral, him and neuro were the two targets I was looking at for round 3 murder recommendations.

THAT WAS NOT ENTIRELY MY FAULT.

shhhh, there there

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

So will you now all explain what you were doing in your "no Revnaks allowed" clubhouses? I'm kinda jealous.

*sigh*

I joined up with DCJF. Then heard from Cowabungaa about joining with the evils. But here's the thing... Wary had no contact with the evils. All 6 of those votes on Snekadid? I can account for all of them and none would be the killer or lawyer. (I mean unless Neuro betrayed us that early but vote count would be off) So I suspect the killer and lawyer helped kill Wary

Then... then I find out that Jux helped killed DCJC. The doppelganger... who had gathered a few to his cause. Now Neuro betrayed Jux... I was ready to stop trying to join the evils anyways when we lost the only evil we were with.

Team good had the votes to kill funs, I had to vote with them to keep fractral convinced I was actually a good guy. As for snekadid, both me and armadox voted for him.

If you guys had gone with us we had many votes. Would have had to do some pruning because of too many people but after losing Wary that was still quite a few votes left.

How many did the good team actually have? I mean that was 6 the first round and we got 6 on snekadid.

Well, with neuro a false traitor from the start, we also suspected Cow to be a false traitor, but we weren't sure. We knew tizzy was a false traitor, though there was some question about that, I had quite a few discussions with dema about what would happen if tizzy was actually a real traitor, and what the consequences would be.

It was too early to expose ourselves to warys group fully. He was outed by crysan from the start, and fractral knew all the suspected traitors in warys group, down to every last one of you, minus myself, because he never told anyone about me.

All you needed to do was choose one of us to pass instructions to. After the third round start pruning some people off. Though picking the right one is the hard part.

@secondhandsellout: When did you try joining team evil.

Halfway in the first round. You can see the point where I stop trying to go for Wary's throat.

Alright, so I was precognitively voting for evil.

Precognition now too?! Crimson op, plz nerf

 

[crimson5pheonix]

@secondhandtraitor: You mad jelly.

 

[Wary Wolf]

Well Wary I can't trust now. He seems out just for chaos. He didn't help the evils and he didn't really help the good side. His goal didn't seem to be to win, which means if mine or anyone's is then trusting him may be a very bad move... Which is fine for him if that's what he wants it just makes for an untrustworthy ally.

You know, this is how people stay in the role of chaos maker. If everyone assumes that someone is going to create chaos every round, that person *will* create chaos every round. Honestly, I did have some fun with this role in this round, but it is definitely not something I want to be doing every round. I was sort of hoping that Jux really was team good for a while there, just because that would have mixed things up more.

 

[Jux]

All you needed to do was choose one of us to pass instructions to. After the third round start pruning some people off. Though picking the right one is the hard part.

Yea. That aside, from picking the right one, the rules for traitor state that you need to be locked into the role by the end of the third round. We thought there were two false traitors in warys group, my own thoughts were cow and tizzy. Neuro makes three false traitors, though he wasn't really known to us.

So even if I guessed right, and picked you, you and dcjf were already compromised. It was hard to make a case for recruiting you as a traitor, because you'd be short lived, and the votes in the later rounds is where we needed traitors. And if I had picked dcjf to reveal myself while he was alive, he would have told neuro. Again, game over situation.

 

[Morsomk_v1legacy]

*yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn* Finally, I managed to wake up!


...and it's all already over.

 

[Fat Hippo]

Well, pretty clear that I didn't know 99% of what was going on this round, which explains why the thread was so quiet, since everyone was busy with private PMs.

Looking at the part Neuromancer quoted which says "All other players, even if they have roles such as the Arbiter, can join whatever side they want." Well the Traitor already DECIDED which side to join. That's the whole point of the traitor role, it represents your decision to join Team Evil, and once you've done so you can't just go back on it. That's the whole damn point of the role. It doesn't mean that you're unaligned, since becoming traitor is how you realign yourself from good to evil in the first place.

Looking at the opening to the traitor role: "The Traitor is a role given to players who have decided to side with the Killer. Traitor role wins the game if the Killer wins." Acting in a manner which directly screws yourself out of your own win condition is just poor sportsmanship in my opinion, and not in the spirit of the game, screw the fine print. So while we may have won, and while it's clear we need to reword a few things, I'm still not exactly happy how this went down.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

@fructose: So why did you send me a PM?

 

[Armadox]

Well, pretty clear that I didn't know 99% of what was going on this round, which explains why the thread was so quiet, since everyone was busy with private PMs.

Looking at the part Neuromancer quoted which says "All other players, even if they have roles such as the Arbiter, can join whatever side they want." Well the Traitor already DECIDED which side to join. That's the whole point of the traitor role, it represents your decision to join Team Evil, and once you've done so you can't just go back on it. That's the whole damn point of the role. It doesn't mean that you're unaligned, since becoming traitor is how you realign yourself from good to evil in the first place.

Looking at the opening to the traitor role: "The Traitor is a role given to players who have decided to side with the Killer. Traitor role wins the game if the Killer wins." Acting in a manner which directly screws yourself out of your own win condition is just poor sportsmanship in my opinion, and not in the spirit of the game, screw the fine print. So while we may have won, and while it's clear we need to reword a few things, I'm still not exactly happy how this went down.

YAh, I do feel rather cheated on this, though to be fair, I did manage to weaponize the traitor role this round, so when Neuro went and was becoming a thorn in my side, I moved to add him to my team to silence him. TFGodz2 took being tricked in good faith and joined the team begrudgingly, but he did follow the spirit of the game.

Alas, rules will need rewritten, and it's my turn to GM...

ha ha HA HA Ha ha ha

 

[Wary Wolf]

@Phat Hippity Beats:

Sorry I wasn't this effective at being evil in the round you directed me >_<

I'll say I learned from the best. I'll still apologize for the confusion there though...

I think though in some ways, what Neuro did is fine, particularly when the rules say it's ok for now. Honestly though I would have thought it better if when PMed by Jux who the killer was, Neuro had released the info then. That way damage control may have been initiated. So maybe a slight rule tweak should be in order.

Still, I guess Neuro loses. Where as technically I win? Posthumously granted, but a win is a win!

Nah, I think Revnak is right: I IS LOSER!!!

Edit: And Ninja'd. See everyone next round...

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

@secondhandtraitor: You mad jelly.

But here's the thing... I still win

Well Wary I can't trust now. He seems out just for chaos. He didn't help the evils and he didn't really help the good side. His goal didn't seem to be to win, which means if mine or anyone's is then trusting him may be a very bad move... Which is fine for him if that's what he wants it just makes for an untrustworthy ally.

You know, this is how people stay in the role of chaos maker. If everyone assumes that someone is going to create chaos every round, that person *will* create chaos every round. Honestly, I did have some fun with this role in this round, but it is definitely not something I want to be doing every round. I was sort of hoping that Jux really was team good for a while there, just because that would have mixed things up more.

Well it's not that I won't ever but you do know after 2 chaotic rounds in a row it's gonna take a bit of seeing you not be chaotic.

All you needed to do was choose one of us to pass instructions to. After the third round start pruning some people off. Though picking the right one is the hard part.

Yea. That aside, from picking the right one, the rules for traitor state that you need to be locked into the role by the end of the third round. We thought there were two false traitors in warys group, my own thoughts were cow and tizzy. Neuro makes three false traitors, though he wasn't really known to us.

So even if I guessed right, and picked you, you and dcjf were already compromised. It was hard to make a case for recruiting you as a traitor, because you'd be short lived, and the votes in the later rounds is where we needed traitors. And if I had picked dcjf to reveal myself while he was alive, he would have told neuro. Again, game over situation.

There is a point on that, but for a few rounds you'd have had a fairly overwhelming number of votes to pick off the important good guys


Also as far as Neuro's thing... is a bit of a technicality and I didn't quite care for that but in the end it would have even fit the spirit if he'd done it before going over to their side. It's mostly a slight timing issue there that doesn't seem as if it would have changed the final results.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

@secondhanddefendant: Not guilty and don't do it again.

 

[Jux]

@secondhandtraitor: You mad jelly.

But here's the thing... I still win

Well Wary I can't trust now. He seems out just for chaos. He didn't help the evils and he didn't really help the good side. His goal didn't seem to be to win, which means if mine or anyone's is then trusting him may be a very bad move... Which is fine for him if that's what he wants it just makes for an untrustworthy ally.

You know, this is how people stay in the role of chaos maker. If everyone assumes that someone is going to create chaos every round, that person *will* create chaos every round. Honestly, I did have some fun with this role in this round, but it is definitely not something I want to be doing every round. I was sort of hoping that Jux really was team good for a while there, just because that would have mixed things up more.

Well it's not that I won't ever but you do know after 2 chaotic rounds in a row it's gonna take a bit of seeing you not be chaotic.

All you needed to do was choose one of us to pass instructions to. After the third round start pruning some people off. Though picking the right one is the hard part.

Yea. That aside, from picking the right one, the rules for traitor state that you need to be locked into the role by the end of the third round. We thought there were two false traitors in warys group, my own thoughts were cow and tizzy. Neuro makes three false traitors, though he wasn't really known to us.

So even if I guessed right, and picked you, you and dcjf were already compromised. It was hard to make a case for recruiting you as a traitor, because you'd be short lived, and the votes in the later rounds is where we needed traitors. And if I had picked dcjf to reveal myself while he was alive, he would have told neuro. Again, game over situation.

There is a point on that, but for a few rounds you'd have had a fairly overwhelming number of votes to pick off the important good guys


Also as far as Neuro's thing... is a bit of a technicality and I didn't quite care for that but in the end it would have even fit the spirit if he'd done it before going over to their side. It's mostly a slight timing issue there that doesn't seem as if it would have changed the final results.

If he had doublecrossed us before actually getting the traitor role, then fine, shame on me, though I'd still be pissed that I was blackmailed into it, though not at neuro.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

@secondhandtraitor: You mad jelly.

But here's the thing... I still win

Well Wary I can't trust now. He seems out just for chaos. He didn't help the evils and he didn't really help the good side. His goal didn't seem to be to win, which means if mine or anyone's is then trusting him may be a very bad move... Which is fine for him if that's what he wants it just makes for an untrustworthy ally.

You know, this is how people stay in the role of chaos maker. If everyone assumes that someone is going to create chaos every round, that person *will* create chaos every round. Honestly, I did have some fun with this role in this round, but it is definitely not something I want to be doing every round. I was sort of hoping that Jux really was team good for a while there, just because that would have mixed things up more.

Well it's not that I won't ever but you do know after 2 chaotic rounds in a row it's gonna take a bit of seeing you not be chaotic.

All you needed to do was choose one of us to pass instructions to. After the third round start pruning some people off. Though picking the right one is the hard part.

Yea. That aside, from picking the right one, the rules for traitor state that you need to be locked into the role by the end of the third round. We thought there were two false traitors in warys group, my own thoughts were cow and tizzy. Neuro makes three false traitors, though he wasn't really known to us.

So even if I guessed right, and picked you, you and dcjf were already compromised. It was hard to make a case for recruiting you as a traitor, because you'd be short lived, and the votes in the later rounds is where we needed traitors. And if I had picked dcjf to reveal myself while he was alive, he would have told neuro. Again, game over situation.

There is a point on that, but for a few rounds you'd have had a fairly overwhelming number of votes to pick off the important good guys


Also as far as Neuro's thing... is a bit of a technicality and I didn't quite care for that but in the end it would have even fit the spirit if he'd done it before going over to their side. It's mostly a slight timing issue there that doesn't seem as if it would have changed the final results.

If he had doublecrossed us before actually getting the traitor role, then fine, shame on me, though I'd still be pissed that I was blackmailed into it, though not at neuro.

Yeah I get you. Just saying what Neuro did wasn't *too* impactful when you consider the alternative action he could have taken were there not that technicality. I mean it's impactful but not unduly so compared to the in the spirit alternative.

 

[Demagogue]

Okay... Talk time.

As traitor, I am not role-aligned, as the rules do not specifically state so.

Wrong. As soon as you became a traitor this afternoon you won or loss with the killer. You apparently only read half the rules, so while 'technically' you could screw over your own team... That's not really in the spirit of the game to screw over your own team. Team Evil should be working together, and Team Good should be working together (as much as they trust each other)

Spoiler: The Traitor (New)

[HEADING=3]The Traitor[/HEADING]

The Traitor is a role given to players who have decided to side with the Killer. Traitor role wins the game if the Killer wins. The Traitor role is not assigned at the beginning of a round like other roles but rather may be given to to a player over the course of play. Other roles - with the exception of the Medic, Priest, and Spy - may obtain this role in addition to their other role.
To become a Traitor both the prospective player and the current Killer must PM the GM with their intention while clearly stating the other's name. Upon receiving both PMs the GM then assigns the Traitor role and informs the Killer of his new comrade. Each player may only attempt to become a Traitor once per game and a player must make their request to become a Traitor before the end of voting of cycle 3.
The total number of Traitors available per game is dependent on the amount of players in the initial cycle:
>24 players = 4
20-24 players = 3
15-19 players = 2
10-14 players = 1
<10 players = 0

-Our whole conversation in PMs-

Yes, as the GM I have to be very careful with saying yes/no to people questions or PMs as to not give away information. PMing me with a subject of "Vague Stuff" and a body of "Armadox" doesn't tell me you're trying to defect, and as such I had to play my words carefully enough to figure out what you were trying to do, without outright saying that yes Armadox was the virus.

Again, once you got the email saying "Consider it done" (as I had already checked with Arma at that point) you gained the traitor role (see above) and you won/loss with the Virus.

And yes, you are correct that there isn't a rule specifically saying that the Traitors can't betray the Killer. So you could screw your team over like that, but don't for a second think you won, you lost in all of this. You quite literally joined the evil team then threw the game on them, which personally I think is a very unsportsman like thing to do.

I would have been fine with you doing your deep cover and throwing them to the wolves once you knew Armadox was the killer. THAT is part of the risk of trying to recruit Traitors is that they have to know the killers identity BEFORE the switch, and there is no telling what they will do once they have that info. Yes, hopefully they send the PM to the GM saying they are joining Team Evil, but they could just as likely make a huge post exposing team evil. However, once you've actually joined them, it is expected that you will work with them to help them win. Not backstab them five seconds later.

Good game I suppose, though I think we all know this goes against the spirit of the role. I wonder if you contacted Dema about all this before posting it.

No he didn't... or he would have been told the above before he threw the game for his team.

And the only reason your head didn't roll this round was because funs was blackmailing me, saying he'd release our pms, where I revealed myself to him after his death, to 'his accomplices' to release publicly(edit) if I didn't recruit you.

This has me alittle concerned as well... I realize the Doppleganger is somewhat on his own at the beginning before he knows who the killer/lawyer is, however, once they sync up there shouldn't be any backstabbing here either.

In regards to PMs (because I did get a question about it from Neuromancer) I will tell everyone else the same thing I told Neuromancer, Armadox, and Jux.

The way the rules are set at the moment, you essentially can't reveal any PMs after you die. So anything you send to another before you get the message from me saying you've died is fair game, but as soon as you get that message from me, you can't share PMs with anyone anymore.

I must say, all of this has left a rather sour taste in my mouth. Blatantly dicking over your own team (I suppose this applies to both of you, though only one explicitly) is a rather unfortunate way to 'win' the game.

*updates his announcment post to include DCJf* Let me make something very clear... Neuro didn't win the game, in any sense of the rules. Neuro may have won the little game he was playing with himself, (that Armadox is so famous for doing) but he lost, just like the rest of team evil.

Maybe next time, instead of playing loose with the rules interpretation, especially with new roles involved, you ask the GM if it's fucking kosher. I must have PM'd Dema a dozen or so different questions regarding the ins and outs of what was allowed, because not only do I care about winning, I care about the integrity of the game.

My poor poor inbox. FYI I have 127 messages in my inbox from the start of this round until now... 61 are from Jux.

I would like to undo my Priest revival, thank you.

Sorry Aero... Dead Recovery Program is Dead.

Well, with neuro a false traitor from the start, we also suspected Cow to be a false traitor, but we weren't sure. We knew tizzy was a false traitor, though there was some question about that, I had quite a few discussions with dema about what would happen if tizzy was actually a real traitor, and what the consequences would be.

FYI, Tizzy wouldn't have been allowed to join Team Evil, and had he tried he would have been denied and gag-ordered of releasing the Killer's Identity to people.

I was just happy when you used your ability to off fractral, him and neuro were the two targets I was looking at for round 3 murder recommendations.

THAT WAS NOT ENTIRELY MY FAULT.

This was actually more on me Jux, Revnak sent me that at the end of round two before I had posted the stuff about DCJf being off'd (and Aerosteam) so I took it as he was trying to do it in round 2, but really he was prepping his round 3 stuff.

@Armadox Thanks for putting your faith in me, you were an awesome teammate, even if it was a shortlived round.

Heaven help whoever has to GM a round when Jux is the Lawyer... that's all I'm saying. O_O

TFGodz2 took being tricked in good faith and joined the team begrudgingly, but he did follow the spirit of the game.

Alas, rules will need rewritten, and it's my turn to GM...

ha ha HA HA Ha ha ha

I wanted to share this with everyone because it is too funny not to:

Spoiler: tf2godz fun

He told me to join his evil Things

You have been granted the Traitor Role. Keep it secret, Keep it Safe.

I'm going to level with you, Armadox told me to do this to trolling because. as far as I know he's innocent. he thought this was going to confuse the crap out of you but instead you give me a traitor role

Oh... I know, he told me you were coming and that he tricked you into PMing me thinking it was a fake. Yes, he just weaponized the Traitor role. However, since you have no other role that would preclude you, and you did infact tell me the right name for the virus as the rules state...

Congrats on being pressganged into team Evil. Have fun!

Rule 1 of SK: Never trust Armadox... lol

......that clever bastard

That's what I was thinking when I read his plan this morning... lol

Also... we're all doomed... Armadox is in charge.

Spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AwvqBa6_FZwdFkViyl-4TS-UhKk0IKX66EmQfPIcxxo/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Jux]

Yeah I get you. Just saying what Neuro did wasn't *too* impactful when you consider the alternative action he could have taken were there not that technicality. I mean it's impactful but not unduly so compared to the in the spirit alternative.

True, really I was more mad about the blackmail. Neuro was just icing on a shit cake.

 

[Demagogue]

True, really I was more mad about the blackmail. Neuro was just icing on a shit cake.

Was it chocolate icing?

 

[Jux]

True, really I was more mad about the blackmail. Neuro was just icing on a shit cake.

Was it chocolate icing?

And so gooey, you wouldn't believe.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Damn it two of our people didn't vote with us round 1... so I guess the killer and lawyer didn't betray Wary like I thought they did...

 

[Wary Wolf]

@Frappe: Actually, that was sort of the point as to why I did what I did at the start. It becomes really easy for the killer to get a butt load of votes right from the get go if he plays his cards right. In many ways if I had offed the killer in doing what I did that would have been awesome, however, as it stood, it is a clear example of how the killer can get quite far ahead before he even kills someone off.

Just as I broke the medic role last round, perhaps we can learn from what is fundamentally wrong with the 'traitor' role this round. Honestly, if I was the killer, I would have done something similar this round, but not have recruited anyone. Rather, have cried foul in round three saying how I PMed the GM to become evil, but they wouldn't let me...

In many ways I feel simple is indeed best. Whilst I have been evil in the last two games, I think that both you and the Fat Hippo are right in suggesting that perhaps it goes against the spirit of things. Granted I might be a little chaotic at times, but I had hoped that when I join a side, good or evil I can stick with it.

Edit: Actually half the problem is that some of you guys are starting to grow on me, so when you say: 'Hey! Wanna join team evil?' I'm all like; 'OK!'

Post # 666!!!!

Was hoping to save it for Armadox's round

Edit #2: and everyone is already discussing this on the chat. Ah well. Late to the party again.