Serial Killer Game 73: Digital Infection - Round 2 Voting End 8AM Nov 25th

[Aerosteam]

So can someone tell me why my name and Michi's has been said in the previous couple of posts? Not sure what's going on here.

@Dirty: I had to keep things in order? Since when did I have that responsibility?

 

[Aerosteam]

@Dirty: No? At least I wasn't aware of it. I'm the owner of the new group because NeoAC disappeared and it needed serious updating.

I'm not sure what being a leader of the game encompasses, but if that's what some people are suggesting then I'll do it.

 

[Morsomk_v1legacy]

Rite, so I had managed to write down a huge post about my feelings about the game and certain roles. And I really feel like I had managed to articulate my thoughts on why I thought some things worked and how others didnt.

Buuuuuuuuuut, then I pressed some random button and it's all gone now. So I guess you bum-holes are getting the short version of it.

Traitor Role is really fucking shit and it has gotta go, be heavily re-worked or just simply never be used again. Because it pretty much turns a game about trickery, scheming and fraud into a fucking boring ass game where 1 teams works against another team.

This new role honestly feels something like something that should be stuck on Mafia or a killer game where you can play it in short bursts, but not on Serial Killer where a game can lasts for several weeks and having a back-up plan is really helpful in case your current plan doesn't work.

Also, wasn't this game suppose to be pretty open ended? Won't role locking eventually make the game be stale as fuck?

 

[Fat Hippo]

Eh, I've made my position fairly clear, but I'll reiterate: the rules are not even remotely as complex as some people seem to think they are. In fact, they are clearer than they were when I joined (Round 65), people just haven't grokked them yet. The big changes, as I see them are.

1. Slight changes to Priest and Arbiter (which neither adds nor reduces complexity)
2. Addition of the Doppelganger (which is a very simple role, really)
3. Team-Locking of certain roles, and addition of the traitor to signify a change in teams. Team-Locking is a clear simplification while the Traitor reduces a lot of the ambiguity we had in the past, which GM's weren't always capable of handling.

So I don't know when this supposed complexity bloat occurred, but it was before I joined. Name some concrete ways the game has gotten more complicated, rather than reminiscing about the vague "good old days".

Before the traitor role existed, I never saw the Killer or Lawyer pull off any of the crazy intrigue we saw this round. You can claim this is because we all suck nowadays, but honestly, why should we give a shit? We're playing the game we think is fun, and not what the people from 30 or 40 rounds ago thought. You can put it to a vote if you think all role-locking should be abolished, and if people actually think that, I will accept it. But I really doubt it's the case.

So, Armadox's round should be a good palette cleanser, but I think people should stop freaking out because of round, in which all of the chaos was caused by human error.

 

[Fractral]

Well, here are my suggestions for role changes:

Spy: Nerf. Can only ask two questions, first on on cycle 2 and second on cycle 5.
Doppelganger: Remove. It won't be needed if the spy is nerfed.
Priest: Remove, since it's only use is reviving the spy and it makes games predictable (it's always used at the same time)
Trickster: Remove.
Traitor: Heavily modify, so that only one can be chosen and is chosen at the start of the game like the Lawyer is. Perhaps rename as Patsy or something like that?

This I think would make it a lot more important that the spy be careful, since he has to survive to cycle 5 to get that important second question off with no lifeline. Meanwhile the Killer gets a second guaranteed ally to help him in the votes and with spreading misinformation. It also removes several fluff roles that make things confusing.

 

[Aerosteam]

@Frac: Yes! That's what I want from people; suggesting all the roles changes they want to see. I'll say mine.

Spy: Nerf. Only ask questions in cycle 2 and 4, provided they're not dead.
Priest: Keep, but can't revive the Spy.
Doppelgänger and Traitor: Fuck off.

 

[Demagogue]

Priest: Keep, but can't revive the Spy.

@Aero: What would you see the Priest being used for in this circumstance? Like I don't see any benefit to a Priest that can res any normal player.

@Frac & @Aero: So are you two okay with the other roles, or are those the only roles you'd suggest we keep? (I'm going to try and catalog all the ideas so that we can make a single thread to discuss/vote on them when we get to that point. Since I don't think we can vote in the Chat)

 

[Fractral]

@Dema: All the roles I didn't mention I'm not concerned about changing. I'd like to see a change to make the medic more useful, but I can't think of anything at the moment. Maybe the medic and spy start off knowing who the other is?
The reason I suggested removing the priest was because if they can't revive the spy they're not much help to team good, so it's just a fluff role at that point, much like the trickster.

 

[Jux]

@Jux: I'm not going to side with anyone in this argument but I will say a few things ...

I was working with Neruo, along with keeping an eye out on most of you baddies (please note I am using baddies as a team name, not an insult) and noticed how you guys talked while being evil. Was interesting, seeing how people act differently when they're innocent or when they have a role but trying to act normal.

Aye, I honestly should have changed up my behavior in previous rounds, I just never expected anyone to choose me as a lawyer. That's certainly something I noticed myself, but I already have a plan for future rounds to account for that. Namely, I'm going to 'act' in every round. It may not be the same schtick I did this time, though this might recur, role or not. But in acting every round, it eliminates any kind of benchmark to compare me to in previous rounds.

You probably are the best Lawyer i've seen, and this is coming from a guy who was chosen to play out the Lawyer when it got made (well that might sound rubbish, since I died cycle 1 lol ...) BUT I was able to help the Killer win because I found the Spy before my death so my point still stands.

I appreciate that. I'll spill the beans now, because I don't think I could ever do it, but when Armadox said on page 6 if he was the killer, he'd choose you as his lawyer because he believes in you, then kill you round 1 because he believes in chaos more, I honestly thought about making you my lawyer, then killing you round 1 and framing Armadox, pointing back to this post, whenever they make me the killer. I laughed so hard at the thought I almost ran myself off the road on the interstate.

I can't tell you whether or not to take the game personally, because in all due respect I got very passionate about the SK game at least 2x now (and i'd be a hypocrite if I told you to calm down which is rude). Instead, let's look over how crap happened and try preventing such things from happening in the future. Whether it's with tighter rules / clearer rules, or reworking how roles / people can do things.

Respect for the integrity of the game is what I am passionate about. I don't want to beat a dead horse any more on that, I feel my specific grievances are enumerated pretty well in my previous posts on the matter. That said, I'm not interested in dwelling on it, though I'd be lying if I said this won't likely colour my judgement on people going forward, on how they act when it comes to breaking rules, threatening to break the rules, or just plain being rude and cutting the GM out of the process when there is something questionable in the rules. Simply being tricked in the context of the game is one thing. It's part of the game, and is to be expected.

Of course, no matter what opinions we voice- it's up to the GM and knowing Armadox we're going to have a treat with this upcoming SK Round. I'd personally take in pride if I were you, to help Armadox survive for this long. People already wanted him dead, and forces were working against him but you kept up as the Lawyer and ensured he got to live more cycles than originally planned.

Well done mate.

I appreciate that, thank you.

 

[Aerosteam]

@Dema & @Frac: Reasons why you might revive a player, if they can't do it on a Spy:

1. The Arbiter could use the ability if they died before doing it.
2. If the Medic is dead, that's one less way of telling if a player is the Killer, reviving them fixes that.
3. If the Priest is a suspect, they can revive a non-suspect and reduce the suspect list.
4. Reviving an Entwined pair brings both players back, increasing players who can vote against suspects.

The other roles I didn't mention I'd like to keep the same.

 

[Demagogue]

@Dema & @Frac: Reasons why you might revive a player, if they can't do it on a Spy:

1. The Arbiter could use the ability if they died before doing it.
2. If the Medic is dead, that's one less way of telling if a player is the Killer, reviving them fixes that.
3. If the Priest is a suspect, they can revive a non-suspect and reduce the suspect list.
4. Reviving an Entwined pair brings both players back, increasing players who can vote against suspects.

The other roles I didn't mention I'd like to keep the same.

Those actually would be pretty decent cases too, and much less likely to happen so the priest might actually live a whole game.

 

[Fractral]

@Aero: Fair enough, I see no reason not to keep the Priest then. How do you feel about the trickster and medic?

 

[Fractral]

@Funs: I would say for all except the Lawyer. Though it could be an honour thing rather than a fully enforced rule. If the Lawyer defects it would kill the round, which would upset the GM and killer at the very least.

 

[Aerosteam]

@Frac: The Trickster and Medic role isn't hurting anyone, I'm fine with them.

@Dirty: If the Priest isn't allowed to revive the Spy, then I think the Priest shouldn't be locked into team good any more. Spy still should be though, no matter how much it's nerfed. Lawyer still has to be locked into team evil no matter what. I'm against the inclusion of the Doppelgänger and Traitor so I'm not going to say anything else on them.

 

[Fat Hippo]

All right then, if we're going to do it, I guess we do it. No role-locks for anyone. No half-assing this shit. Let's see how this turns out.

 

[Demagogue]

Killer: No Change
Medic: This role really seems to be hit or miss on it's usefulness, unless we can end up thinking of a good way to implement it, I'm actually thinking lets just scrap it.
Spy: Can only ask two questions, first on on cycle 2 and second on cycle 5[footnote]I really like Fractral's Idea, so I stole it[/footnote]
Arbiter: Go back to the rules from a few games ago, where the Arbiter could kill at any time after the second round, no more linking it to the voting phase.
Priest: Remove. While I see Aerosteam's situations where it would be helpful, it also feels like the checklist of automation for when they die is just getting bigger. Should A, B, or C happen. Priest is expected to kill themselves for the 'greater good'.
Lawyer: No Change
Trickster: Remove, added a level of chaos that really doesn't seem to be working out in most rounds.
Doppelganger: With the change to Spy would be no longer needed, Remove.
Entwined: I'd like to see them know who each other are so that they aren't advocating for their own death, otherwise no change.
Traitor: Remove all together.

Role Locking: As Hippo said... if were going to do it, then do it, don't half-ass it. If people can think of a reason to justify role-locking the Lawyer or Priest, then I promise you, I could make a reasonable argument for any other role to be locked as well... So if we're going to do away with some, get rid of them all.

Killer Victory Condition: Last Man standing (Minus the Lawyer)
Commoners Victory Condition: Kill the Killer by any means possible

 

[FPLOON]

@Nexus Mod Manager: It's a good thing I feel no sympathy for the Killer because, in my eyes, [user]Nouw[/user] has been the best Killer I've seen out of all of the SK rounds I've been in...

Now you got me all teary eyed..... *Sniffle*

Nouw is one hell of killer. He won despite the round having only 3 roles (Killer, Medic, Spy) and us calling for his head.

And the fate of that round rested in one-half of my hands... If only I saw the irony sooner!

Oh hi guys, can I join the next round? It's been a while since I played.

You probably already contacted [user]Armadox[/user] by now...

Also in terms of roles:
Killer: They can choose to kill themselves... officially...
Medic: Anyone lucky enough to be saved gets immunity from next execution...
Spy: Nothing except "death/revival" does not count as a cycle under the Spy's live belt...
Arbiter: They can arbite themselves... at the expense of one random non-role player...
Priest: They can revive themselves... if they die before using their role, thus losing their role to revive another player if doing so...
Entwined: They know each other from the moment they are given the role...
Lawyer: They can either ask the GM about certain players for the Killer per cycle or be "Devil's Advocate"[footnote]Aka a Killer-recruiting Officer[/footnote]... They can't do both...
Trickster/Doppleganger: They don't exist anymore...

Other than that, role-locking's only for Spy and Lawyer (if the present GM says it to be so during their particular round), even though they are allowed to use rogue-ish methods in the process like pretending to be their own proxy (like the Spy in Round 65) and/or claiming to be working on a particular side aka "lying"...

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Killer: No Change
Medic: This role really seems to be hit or miss on it's usefulness, unless we can end up thinking of a good way to implement it, I'm actually thinking lets just scrap it.
Spy: Can only ask two questions, first on on cycle 2 and second on cycle 5[footnote]I really like Fractral's Idea, so I stole it[/footnote]
Arbiter: Go back to the rules from a few games ago, where the Arbiter could kill at any time after the second round, no more linking it to the voting phase.
Priest: Remove. While I see Aerosteam's situations where it would be helpful, it also feels like the checklist of automation for when they die is just getting bigger. Should A, B, or C happen. Priest is expected to kill themselves for the 'greater good'.
Lawyer: No Change
Trickster: Remove, added a level of chaos that really doesn't seem to be working out in most rounds.
Doppelganger: With the change to Spy would be no longer needed, Remove.
Entwined: I'd like to see them know who each other are so that they aren't advocating for their own death, otherwise no change.
Traitor: Remove all together.

Role Locking: As Hippo said... if were going to do it, then do it, don't half-ass it. If people can think of a reason to justify role-locking the Lawyer or Priest, then I promise you, I could make a reasonable argument for any other role to be locked as well... So if we're going to do away with some, get rid of them all.

Killer Victory Condition: Last Man standing (Minus the Lawyer)
Commoners Victory Condition: Kill the Killer by any means possible

Eh but can any others end the game instantly of not locked? Lawyer can. I don't think you can easily find something to compare. It's game ending and not very hard to have occur.

 

[Armadox]

I've been asked to talk about rules, role-locking, roles and playing style. And I will do that, but after some consideration I'd like to wait til after my round before I do so, as I'd like to make a comparison and contrast.

 

[Fat Hippo]

Killer: No Change
Medic: This role really seems to be hit or miss on it's usefulness, unless we can end up thinking of a good way to implement it, I'm actually thinking lets just scrap it.
Spy: Can only ask two questions, first on on cycle 2 and second on cycle 5
Arbiter: Go back to the rules from a few games ago, where the Arbiter could kill at any time after the second round, no more linking it to the voting phase.
Priest: Remove. While I see Aerosteam's situations where it would be helpful, it also feels like the checklist of automation for when they die is just getting bigger. Should A, B, or C happen. Priest is expected to kill themselves for the 'greater good'.
Lawyer: No Change
Trickster: Remove, added a level of chaos that really doesn't seem to be working out in most rounds.
Doppelganger: With the change to Spy would be no longer needed, Remove.
Entwined: I'd like to see them know who each other are so that they aren't advocating for their own death, otherwise no change.
Traitor: Remove all together.

Role Locking: As Hippo said... if were going to do it, then do it, don't half-ass it. If people can think of a reason to justify role-locking the Lawyer or Priest, then I promise you, I could make a reasonable argument for any other role to be locked as well... So if we're going to do away with some, get rid of them all.

Killer Victory Condition: Last Man standing (Minus the Lawyer)
Commoners Victory Condition: Kill the Killer by any means possible

Eh but can any others end the game instantly of not locked? Lawyer can. I don't think you can easily find something to compare. It's game ending and not very hard to have occur.

Well Dirty, the biggest enemy of role-locking, seems to think the good ol' days where the Killer could be betrayed by his own lawyer were so fantastic. So I'd say we give it a shot and see what the consequences are.