Sex in RPG's and why it fails.

[CatmanStu]

I have been playing Dragon Age again recently and when it got to the god awful 'climax' of my ongoing attempt to chat up Zevran, I forced myself to watch the event to try and work out what was wrong. It worked. Without the heterosexual distraction of anatomical inaccuracy as a scapegoat (although that is definitely one of the problems) I could see clearly what was jarring the experience. The game had taken away my ability to dictate my characters personality.

The main aspect of an RPG is the ability to mould your characters personality through play style; you can choose to be a pacifist or a vicious killer, a diplomat or a bully; so why take that choice away during romance? If, say, you finally get Leliana into bed, have the option to be gentle and romantic or aggressive and vigorous and have her react differently to each. Morrigan, being a control freak, could react more favourably to being dominated than being the one in control. Alistair could be the opposite.

I would also put forward that if you are a brutal killer with a thousand innocent corpses to your name, you are probably not going to snuggle up for a nice romantic cuddle (although, not being a mindless killer myself, I could be wrong).

So, does anybody feel this could be the way to make sex feel like a tangible part of the experience, has anybody got a better idea of how to make it work, or is sex always destined to be something that is tacked on for 'shock value'?



For the pedantic out there: I am aware that sex in all it's wondrous and ridiculous forms has the capacity to be both tender and aggressive at the same time, but I think that programmers are far away from being able to create a simulation of a realistic sexual encounter.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Personally, I'd rather they just imply sex. Have the screen fade to black and then a discussion afterward. Or just not have sex in the game. P3 and P4 let you date and fall in love with a character without sex. It always seemed awkward and a little juvenile to have two 3-d models make love.

 

[alrekr]

You sir have made some reasoned arguments that I feel inclined to agree with.

 

[katsumoto03]

Whenever I see sex in a game I think, "Wow, [game developers], really?" It's really kind of juvenile.

 

[Meggiepants]

Perhaps... but then if they did include a sex type mini game where you choose the way you sex up your video game romance, I think that would actually ick me out a little. I don't know why, but thinking about it... yes, ick me out a little.

If it's done with humor, like the GOW3 scene, that's one thing. But DA is supposed to be serious. I think it would be a bit tricky to make a serious sex mechanic in a game like that. I'm not saying this wouldn't work for others, but I don't think it would work for me.

Personally, I would much rather have had more conversation after the "deed." If you romance all the way to that point, there is nothing left in the game to do, conversation-wise, until the end. I think that's what really bugs me about it. I think there should be an opportunity to mess up your relationship later in the game. Or perhaps to deepen it. After all, you haven't really been with these people all that long. I think there should be something a little more substantial afterwards. That would probably fix it for me.

 

[Woodsey]

That's a good point (in terms of an RPG) but they'd never get away with it.

Generally I think implied sex scenes work better - the Prince and Farah get funky, but they focus mostly on the important thing around that (you know, the L word[footnote]Not lesbian[/footnote]) as opposed to the shagging itself.

I thought the Mass Effect ones were done pretty well though (Ash and male Shep, Miranda and male Shep, and Jack and male Shep are the ones I've got, at any rate).

I think it's the music in the Dragon Age ones that kills it. And the fact that they look like mannequins.

Whenever I see sex in a game I think, "Wow, [game developers], really?" It's really kind of juvenile.

Why? Books have it, films have it, music talks about it.

If you think like that, how are we supposed to get anywhere if we want games to start toeing the maturity line?

 

[More Fun To Compute]

So you want a Hot Coffee mod for Dragon Age? I don't see why that would cause any sort of problem for Bioware.

 

[OliverTwist72]

Side boob, I feel I've said enough.

Generally sex scenes don't influence my buying decisions so I don't care if they are there or not.

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

well they are an added on mechanic that can be avoided quite easily. entirely actually. so i really don't care they are their, and honestly i have seen worse, so having it that way doesn't bug me too much..

mass effect 1+2 does it a lot better than dragon age though. i will say that.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

So you want a Hot Coffee mod for Dragon Age? I don't see why that would cause any sort of problem for Bioware.

DA2 supposedly has one instance of fellatio, so there you go.

 

[Moontouched-Moogle]

Personally, I'd rather they just imply sex. Have the screen fade to black and then a discussion afterward. Or just not have sex in the game. P3 and P4 let you date and fall in love with a character without sex. It always seemed awkward and a little juvenile to have two 3-d models make love.

I agree. Having implied sex tends to be better, because it's not all in-your-face or thrown in for shock value.

Also, Persona 3 actually does feature sex, but it's the fade to black/implied kind.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Personally, I'd rather they just imply sex. Have the screen fade to black and then a discussion afterward. Or just not have sex in the game. P3 and P4 let you date and fall in love with a character without sex. It always seemed awkward and a little juvenile to have two 3-d models make love.

I agree. Having implied sex tends to be better, because it's not all in-your-face or thrown in for shock value.

Also, Persona 3 actually does feature sex, but it's the fade to black/implied kind.

Really? I thought they just spent time together. Fuuka didn't seem like that kind of girl. Though, you essentially give Aigis an orgasm in her last event....moving on.

 

[RatRace123]

Personally, I'd rather they just imply sex. Have the screen fade to black and then a discussion afterward.

This, the implication of the event makes it more effective and artistic than showing it. (And in Dragon Age,it's downright painful to watch)

Mass Effect 1 was the only game that I can recall that did it well. And that's because:
The characters actually did have no clothes on (Not saying I liked that for perverted reasons, but it's better than showing characters dry humping eachother in their underwear.)
They showed less and accomplished more through camera angles, lighting and music.

 

[Thaius]

Personally, I'd rather they just imply sex. Have the screen fade to black and then a discussion afterward. Or just not have sex in the game. P3 and P4 let you date and fall in love with a character without sex. It always seemed awkward and a little juvenile to have two 3-d models make love.

This. I agree entirely. Sex in the context of a romance is not even necessary, but if it is there, there is no reason to jack up the rating for it. All one gets from that is another "SeXbox" controversy. And that was fricking stupid.

 

[darth.pixie]

Implied sex works. A black screen and that's it. That is, if Bioware would do the romances alright, not just talk to the NPCs three times and off to bed.

I also think that visual sex scenes slip a bit into the uncanny. I mean, animations of running and fighting aren't that hard to make realistic considering we are trying to survive. But shows of affection and cutscenes where we just watch our characters ... well you have enough time to think of them as pixel dolls.

 

[Moontouched-Moogle]

Personally, I'd rather they just imply sex. Have the screen fade to black and then a discussion afterward. Or just not have sex in the game. P3 and P4 let you date and fall in love with a character without sex. It always seemed awkward and a little juvenile to have two 3-d models make love.

I agree. Having implied sex tends to be better, because it's not all in-your-face or thrown in for shock value.

Also, Persona 3 actually does feature sex, but it's the fade to black/implied kind.

Really? I thought they just spent time together. Fuuka didn't seem like that kind of girl. Though, you essentially give Aigis an orgasm in her last event....moving on.

Well, they fade to black and say you "share a tender moment," so it isn't too much of a stretch. Especially considering the Team Manager social link, where you're in her room and she's blushing like crazy. That, and the fact that she was talking about what your babies would look like only two events ago. Needless to say, the babies thing was awkward for everyone.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Here was me expecting someone ranting about not having sex in games at all and you actually make a fine point. Bravo sir for derailing my rant before I even got started.

I think it would be a good idea if they could implement it in a way that players would feel wasn't intrusive. I've joked about the God of War quick-time event sex and Fahrenheit, though unique in its system for better or worse, disrupted the act itself.

I suppose something like Alpha Protocol might work though. Each button is assigned a personality (Suave, Aggressive, Professional) which dictates your response. Outside of one or two scenarios you know rougly what you're going to get with each button push, and so something along those lines of intuitive system instead of BioWare convo wheel might greatly benefit games.

Which of course means it'll never happen because the second BioWare use a Sega system or vice versa one or the other will be accused of plaigarism etc, and so the system would never be implemented.

I think overall I prefer BioWare's system though. I'm usually comfortable enough with the way they write the characters that I find it believable that my character acts the way they do, but as I've also said I tend to only play good guys and paragons, so it makes sense they would be romantic and lovey-dovey underneath the badass soldier exterior.

 

[CrystalShadow]

I don't know how you can really 'solve' this, because games that give you any kind of control over a sex scene immediately get slapped down by the ratings agencies.

If you've ever looked into pornographic games you realise there's other problems too:

Sex scenes generally just look weird.

Not to mention a bigger issue: Games are interactive; Sex is too, but sex is a mostly physical act (Ie, it's about the sense of touch).

We don't have the technology to meaningfully create any experience based primarily around touch... So sex in games has a lot going against it.