Sex is overrated

[axlryder]

Alright, this thread really just amounts to a small personal rant/opinion so feel free to disagree or disregard it as the frivolous musings some dude on the internet. It's also pretty TL;DR so no need to point that out if it's the case. I also present a lot of problems in this thread without any proposed solutions (or even proof that they're "problems"), but, again, rant/opinion thread. I also want to preface this thread by saying that it is not my intention to imply that sex is bad or that people are horrible human beings for wanting to have sex (I think quite the opposite, actually), merely that I believe the value we as a society place on sex is not only excessive, but even potentially stifling and possibly that our entire perspective on sex is warped.

Now, this is written from the point of view of someone who isn't really an enormous fan of having sex. I'm not saying I can't appreciate sex or that don't enjoy it (though some people don't) or even that I think sexual intimacy isn't a crucial part of most relationships, merely that I don't put the same emphasis on it that many others do. This is from both from a relational and recreational perspective. That said, I was also a porn addict. This happened mostly because of a combination of the things down below.

I consider this problem to have two major facets. The first is that some people are just genetically predisposed to not being highly sexual, yet society and their peers make them feel as though this is a bad thing. The second is that our society itself (speaking primarily of American culture) is way too inundated with sexuality and sexual pressure as well as an unhealthy view of sex. This unhealthy view not just from the sex addicts, but the more conservative groups.

Now, to me anyway, the BIGGEST problem is actually the general avoidance or obfuscation of sexual concepts in regards to children. Many parents (even parents of today's generation) made the huge mistake of hiding sex from their kids. Not just the act of sex, but a lot of ideas and concepts about sex. It's much better to explain things to your kids (imo) than have them fumble about with their 14 year old girlfriend or learn about it from their friend's twisted misconceptions or to watch an unrealistic portrayal of it. That's an awesome way to mess up your kids. I'm not saying you should show your kids sex or that you should try and make it sound like some matter of fact, emotionless act, just that you should be open to talking to them about it. This poor communication often makes its way into the bedroom when the kid gets older, resulting in two people who barely know how to express their sexual needs to one another. This also brings me to a small side point about general female sexual needs that's so greatly misunderstood by a lot of men and even woman that it's amazing to me. The same can be said of men, but to a lesser extent. Another awesome way to mess up your kids is to make them feel guilty for having sexual thoughts or having some porn or whatever (though on a liberal website like this I don't think this a a revelation to anyone). It's also true that there are few better ways to ensure that a kid will want to see or do something (especially something that their very physiology clamors for) than to make it taboo. This is especially true with the copious amounts of sexual material floating around, which brings me to my next point.

Now I personally hate porn (especially the majority of porn I've seen) because I feel it creates unrealistic ideals in the eyes of men and woman while simultaneously making many of them feel inadequate in some way. It also objectifies not just genders (yes, BOTH genders), but also the act of sex itself. Resulting in a view that sex is more of a consequence-free, purely visceral act of pleasure than an emotionally potent and intimate act between two people who (hopefully) love each other (+ the occasional baby making). Now, again, I'm not trying to say that we should try and ban porn or make it all a bunch of mushy love making, but it's the EXTREME proliferation of porn within our society (thanks in no small part to teh intarwebs) as well as the predominant types of sex that are portrayed that bothers me.

Another problem I have is with the general air of sexuality that permeates throughout everything. TV ads, shows ranging from all different genres and age groups as well as video games, magazines, billboards, radio ads, etc. It's nearly impossible to NOT be exposed to enough sexual content that it's likely to permanently effect your sexual perceptions in the future (especially as a kid). Even as an adult, I'm so tired of seeing it and having it shoved down my throat. To me at least, excessive sex is psychologically stifling. My other issue with this is that sex is often used to manipulative ends (generally as a way to get your money). Sex sells, we all know this. The problem is that, whether we buy the actual product, the subconscious message is still there. Sex is a tool. I see this a lot in relationships and in the attitude of woman. I'm not trying to single out woman here, as I'm sure if woman were sexually simulated the same way men were than advertisements would likely show a lot more guys dancing around half naked on TV and we'd see a lot more male "gold diggers".(though both of those things exist). Of course a lot of people are selfish, and will use WHATEVER tools they have at their disposal to get into your wallet, but I'd guess all this sexual advertisement is partially to blame for that attitude. Also, don't think that a person needs to get cars or houses from you to be a gold digger, it can be as simple as getting you to pay his/her cell phone bill or something.

There are some people in the world (more than I think would admit) that aren't all that sexually oriented. Some are asexual, some are more emotionally sensitive in regards to sex, some are more sexually reserved, some have chosen to live a celibate lifestyle for one reason or another and some simply aren't really big sex people. Yet, in our society, it's hard to NOT become sexually jaded. Society pressures you into having sex with all its bandwagon logic via peers and movies. If you try and remain abstinent or refrain from sexual activity you're often chastised for it or laughed at. This point is so easily validated (in my mind) by the fact that "virgin" can practically be used as a dirty word past the age of 15/16. You constantly have sexual imagery shoved down your throat. Many to most things that are oriented towards "adult" audiences are slathered with a thick layer of sexual content. After a certain age to have sex is simply expected outside of small subcultures (that are mostly populated by fundamental extremists of the opposite persuasion). Of course this is more so true of men than woman, and there is something of a double standard in place in that regard (stud/slut), but I'm noticing a more equalized sexual shift in our culture (female rights movements and such likely playing a role). While this is nice, I guess, I still don't see this really helping the problem I'm presenting here. Now I'm not saying society should totally change to accommodate these people, but some consideration would be nice. This general societal view also makes it hard for people of that nature to come together. It's not easy, because sex is so expected and common-place that wanting to refrain for any period of time (especially if you're a 21 Y/O dude) makes you seem like either a "loser"/"virgin", freak or some extremist fundie. Not a great label.

The final problem I have with sex is that so many people feel like they NEED it. Now I understand the need for sexual release, and intimacy and that sex is life-affirming and that it's healthy, etc. But I think the casual attitude we have towards sex is also dangerous and how we're okay with it just being everywhere. I view it the same way I view technology, It's a WONDERFUL thing, but one must temper themselves and balance it with other aspects of their world. Even if one's life doesn't necessarily revolve around technology, to have it ever-present within one's life can still create problems. I feel that the same can be said of sex. Sometimes I feel like sex smothers other aspects of people's lives that deserve more attention or influences things that perhaps it should be influencing. I guess it comes down to our society often acting as though sex is the be all/end all (especially for the male half of the population) and wanting to aspire to something beyond or simply something more than sex (often hollow, empty sex) is mostly beyond the public sphere of consciousness. Dunno, these are mostly just a collection of thoughts so don't have much of a conclusion for you.

 

[The Preened Mr. Fust]

I certainly agree that we as a society should strive for balance, especially in this subject matter.

While I generally agree with you, part of me wonders if it hasn't always been like this throughout human history.

What is a much bigger problem is how men and women are portrayed. I for one am a bit tired of seeing men portrayed as lumbering, lazy, stupid oafs who want nothing more than to eat triple beef bacon burgers and watch football all of the time with a six pack of beer. It makes you want to dislike your own gender.

Don't even get me started on how we portray women, good grief.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I LIKE TURTLES!

Er I would say if I didn't read it, but for some reason I did. Perhaps it was the lack of run-on sentences and giant blocks of words completely void of paragraphs.

Couple questions:

First, How old are you?

I ask because general perspective of life's standard experiences (childhood, graduating, Christmas, sex, marriage, etc) tend to be different around certain ages. I'm estimating somewhere between 17-23.

Second, this quote "This also brings me to a small side point about general female sexual needs that's so greatly misunderstood by a lot of men and even woman that it's amazing to me.". Perhaps I missed it, but you never followed up on that. What is so greatly misunderstood about female sexual needs?

_______________________

My own take on the situation: I believe children need to be educated on more than just safe sex. They need to be educated on what is it. Mostly that as long as your responsible about it, its ok to have sex. I remember growing up, whenever anything sexual came up on tv I would turn my head away and feel ashamed. The same deep horrible feeling as if I stole something would fill me up with guilt and embarrassment. This is pretty common from what I've heard and it needs to be stopped. We should never feel sick about sex. It is very unhealthy and can turn some individuals when they reach maturity into sexual deviants (the dangerous kind)

In relationships sex is a major part of it. While not everyone will prioritize it as high as others, bad sex can lead to breakup. This is because sex helps release chemicals that relax you and actually help you fall deeper in love with the person. Not to mention the trust and true helplessness that is reached during sex. You are exposed. Without sex, you are missing a critical hardwired human program and it can make maintaining a relationship far more complex than it already is. However, like everything else in life it is about moderation and balance.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not sex crazed. I didn't lose my virginity till I was 22 and it was because I was waiting for the right person. Also I hate babies and I hate STDs having giddy random sex with a person you barely know I'm sure is an incredible rush, but I just can't take a risk like that.

Finally, speaking from experience women love sex as much as men. They ache for it as much as men. My point is a man can just as easily use sex as a weapon if he is dedicated enough to it. Society's curtain of what is and what isn't defines us in the media and public social events, but in our private lives things can become far different.

 

[axlryder]

I certainly agree that we as a society should strive for balance, especially in this subject matter.

While I generally agree with you, part of me wonders if it hasn't always been like this throughout human history.

What is a much bigger problem is how men and women are portrayed. I for one am a bit tired of seeing men portrayed as lumbering, lazy, stupid oafs who want nothing more than to eat triple beef bacon burgers and watch football all of the time with a six pack of beer. It makes you want to dislike your own gender.

Don't even get me started on how we portray women, good grief.

I agree with you that the general portrayal of genders is a serious issue in our society, but I disagree that it's a "bigger problem" (I think both problems are worth addressing). For one thing, gender perception is a problem that I see people talking about quite often, whereas many people don't even seem to recognize the general inundation of sexual material as being an issue (aside from conservative groups who don't really seem to even understand WHY they're protesting what they're protesting or who just sound like a bunch of misinformed oafs). To me, it's a huge issue and a much bigger issue than what most people will give it credit for.

As to your comment "all throughout history", I'd actually agree that this pattern of behavior has existed all throughout history (to varying degrees and manifesting itself in various ways from society to society and generation to generation), however, I'd also present to you the idea that a pattern of cultural and psychological dysfunction has existed all throughout history and countries around the world. Gender perceptions, for example. That doesn't make these things any less detrimental or in need of addressing, obviously.

 

[Chefodeath]

You know, it's not that I disagree with your points as much as I just couldn't care less. It's a simple act no more phenomenal than that of eating.

 

[axlryder]

I LIKE TURTLES!

Er I would say if I didn't read it, but for some reason I did. Perhaps it was the lack of run-on sentences and giant blocks of words completely void of paragraphs.

Couple questions:

First, How old are you?

I ask because general perspective of life's standard experiences (childhood, graduating, Christmas, sex, marriage, etc) tend to be different around certain ages. I'm estimating somewhere between 17-23.

Second, this quote "This also brings me to a small side point about general female sexual needs that's so greatly misunderstood by a lot of men and even woman that it's amazing to me.". Perhaps I missed it, but you never followed up on that. What is so greatly misunderstood about female sexual needs?

_______________________

My own take on the situation: I believe children need to be educated on more than just safe sex. They need to be educated on what is it. Mostly that as long as your responsible about it, its ok to have sex. I remember growing up, whenever anything sexual came up on tv I would turn my head away and feel ashamed. The same deep horrible feeling as if I stole something would fill me up with guilt and embarrassment. This is pretty common from what I've heard and it needs to be stopped. We should never feel sick about sex. It is very unhealthy and can turn some individuals when they reach maturity into sexual deviants (the dangerous kind)

In relationships sex is a major part of it. While not everyone will prioritize it as high as others, bad sex can lead to breakup. This is because sex helps release chemicals that relax you and actually help you fall deeper in love with the person. Not to mention the trust and true helplessness that is reached during sex. You are exposed. Without sex, you are missing a critical hardwired human program and it can make maintaining a relationship far more complex than it already is. However, like everything else in life it is about moderation and balance.

Now don't get me wrong, I am not sex crazed. I didn't lose my virginity till I was 22 and it was because I was waiting for the right person. Also I hate babies and I hate STDs having giddy random sex with a person you barely know I'm sure is an incredible rush, but I just can't take a risk like that.

Finally, speaking from experience women love sex as much as men. They ache for it as much as men. My point is a man can just as easily use sex as a weapon if he is dedicated enough to it. Society's curtain of what is and what isn't defines us in the media and public social events, but in our private lives things can become far different.

As to your questions, I don't think my age is particularly relevant to this discussion, but I'd imagine it could be gleaned from my post. I get where you're coming from, as of course people's perceptions do tend to shift throughout their lives, but I've had these views since I was an early teen and they've only gotten stronger with time.

as to the second question, I'm mostly referring to the actual nitty-gritty details of sex that I'm sure I can't go into on here and common misconceptions of both men and woman (again, about the details of sex). But also that every woman is indeed different sexually, many aren't a lightswitch, don't act the same way, learning to read nonverbal ques (and woman learning to give more verbal ones) etc. etc.

To the rest of your comment

well, first of all, what you said about guilt and sex, I agree completely (I think I mentioned that point in my rearing children paragraph). Where I have a problem is just that the amount of sex I see is stifling. When I was a kid, there was no reason for me to have to see a sports illustrated swimsuit model practically naked on a magazine rack, or to see a Victoria secret model plastered all over in the mall, or see some amazingly provocative imagery on a billboard. Especially when those things are there just to get my money. To me that's manipulative. The same, to an extent, goes for TV as well. My parents didn't need to tell my it was wrong, it just stuck in my brain and bothered me for days (and not in a good way). I'm convinced that overexposure to sex can result in serious sexual malfunction. Not just nudity or intimacy, btw, but crafted sexual imagery specifically designed to entice and reinforce that shimmery, hollow perception of sexuality.

As to sex being an important part of a relationship, also true. There's no question that when an established couple is no longer intimate that a break up is likely impending (unless they've become forced to rely on one another for financial or security reasons). Though, again, like I said, some people just aren't that sexually oriented. Just like some people just aren't good with kids and some people are gay. It's just the way it is. Sex a natural part of being a human, yes, but we're not all programmed the same way. It's societies attitude towards those people that think this way that bother me (an attitude of dismissal, indignation or ridicule).

also, in my experience, you're right, many woman do like sex just as much as men. I actually went back and edited one part because I didn't want to give off the impression that I somehow think woman enjoy sex less than men, there's just a general difference in perception. Not ALL woman like sex though. Just like not ALL men like sex (though I find there is a greater frequency of woman who don't particularly like sex than men). The reasons for this are extremely varied (physiologically can't orgasm, bad experience, the things mentioned above, it hurts, etc.) as well as the particular types of sexual acts (in my experience). Also, again, a man can use sex as a weapon. There ARE male gold diggers and there are men who emotionally damage woman through sexual means. In fact, I'd say men are more likely to emotionally damage a woman through sex than vice-versa, but less likely to use sex to use her. Again, speculation.

Lastly, in regards to your comment about media perceptions affecting our sex lives. I should have expounded on this because I know where you're coming from. I think I overemphasized exactly how much the media affects us in the bedroom, lol. I'll say that I remain firm that it DOES affect us (especially in the beginning of a relationship and during our development), and affects intimacy, but it's not as though we're being programmed like robots. That said, I find that the general attitude that permeates relationships these days (from why people divorce/break up/what they enjoy,etc.) is generally tinged with this foggy hue, as if the media was the cigarette smoke slowly yellowing the mirror. All opinions, of course.

Thanks for the comment, it's nice to get some feedback and I think you sound like a pretty level-headed dude.

 

[axlryder]

You know, it's not that I disagree with your points as much as I just couldn't care less. It's a simple act no more phenomenal than that of eating.

well I'm so glad you decided to weigh in. Also, I'd say eating is pretty interesting when you think about it.

 

[Angie7F]

I agree that sex is over rated.
Once you have been there and done that it makes you wonder what the fuss was all about...

Also the pressure on virgins are crazy.
I do agree though that when people make a big deal about how someone is a Virgin, it's not so much whether you have had sex or it, but more about how the fact that you are a virgin shows that you have not been intimate with someone emotionally.

As for porn and the whole "sex sells" concept, I don't believe that either.

 

[Colour Scientist]

For the issue with porn, I don't think the answer is less, I think it's more. We need more variety, I have yet to see a woman have a genuine orgasm in porn. We need to break away from the common set-up where a guy with an uncomfortably large penis points it at the most sexually disinterested thing in the room and then beats up her face/vagina with it and she pretends to have the time of her life.
If that ever happened to me, I'd ask the guy to leave.

I think women's sexual needs do have to be addressed but they can vary from person to person, I think that's the one men need to be aware of, that it isn't just a case of the above and hey presto. I mean, most guys i know aren't aware that women can have more than one type of orgasm and the ones i've told seemed stunned. On the flip side, women need to learn to not fake it just to satisfy a guy's ego, it never helps.

Children do need to be raised with a healthy attitude to sex but hopefully, with this generation, that will start to finally happen. They need to be thought that sexuality is nothing to be ashamed of, regardless of your orientation, rather than to be afraid and ashamed of it until your mid-teens then transition quickly to becoming obsessed with something some see as taboo.

Personally, I can't comment on the pressures of being a virgin. I was 17 and I never really felt the pressure to do it earlier than that. That's when I was ready but I did know a lot of people who felt the pressure, especially among guys.

Basically, my point is that it's not that sex is over-estimated, just mis-represented.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

I think sex is overrated by those who have never had it. Everyone I've known's (especially guys) opinion on sex has changed drastically after they've lost their virginity. In my opinion, sex on it's own is overrated. Not to say it's not fun, but it's not amazing. Sex with someone you love isn't, I think it's probably one of the greatest experiences you can have. Society doesn't seem to make much distinction between the two though, which I think causes problems.

 

[Colour Scientist]

Know some guys just snap and take it personally, commit rape.

Not to single you out but this is a horrible misconception, men don't just decide that they aren't getting enough and go out and rape someone. Rape rarely has anything to do with sex, it's more related to control and deeper psychological issues. It's not a case of 'I haven't had sex for ages, I know, I'll rape someone.'

I'm amazed that men don't give themselves more credit on that topic instead of portraying themselves as rabid, sex hungry maniacs. It would also get rid of the perspective that a girl brings it on herself if she dresses in a revealing way.

 

[Ando85]

snip

Interesting topic. I love the whole "virgin = loser" point. If someone pursues other interests other than constantly looking for sex they are dubbed a loser. Maybe someone isn't into casual sex as that can be dangerous with STDs and unwanted pregnancy. "Just use a condom" they say. I don't have enough fingers to count how many young couples I know whom supposedly took every precaution, yet still got pregnant.

Maybe someone is waiting for the right person, maybe they are waiting til marriage, or maybe they aren't attractive and appealing to woman. This doesn't make anyone less of a person. Hell, even if someone isn't that attractive they can still have sex. It just depends on what kind of standards the person has. I know a few people whom were so ashamed of the "virgin" status that they hired a prostitute, or slept with someone they had no interest in otherwise.

Like you, I'm not trying to condemn those who have sex. It is perfectly natural and healthy. But, I feel it should be someone's personal business. However, I am condemning those who insult and degrade people for being a virgin past whatever arbitrary age makes you a "loser" for not having sex yet.

My parents hid sexuality from me. I had to piece it together from what friends said, movies, and television. I never got "the talk". So I had some false notions about sex and everything it entails. I remember the family dog would hump people's legs. I asked my father why the dog was doing that. He wasn't going to lie to me so he said "that is how they reproduce". My mother glared at him in disapproval.

I agree with just about everything you said here.

 

[Don Savik]

I agree that sex is over rated.
Once you have been there and done that it makes you wonder what the fuss was all about...

Also the pressure on virgins are crazy.
I do agree though that when people make a big deal about how someone is a Virgin, it's not so much whether you have had sex or it, but more about how the fact that you are a virgin shows that you have not been intimate with someone emotionally.

As for porn and the whole "sex sells" concept, I don't believe that either.

heh. I can back you up on the virgin thing seeing as im almost 19 and have never had an actual conversation with a girl. Yes, I'm bad at making friends of all genders, but the foreveralone status that I have gone to accumulate over the years of people automatically assuming that I should know how to talk to people and become intimate is not a fun thing to live with. I literally have nobody to talk to on the subject because NOBODY TAKES IT SERIOUSLY. My own mother said she didn't really see me ever getting married when I was older. How depressing is that? What do you do with that? I'm confused.

Yes, I watch porn sometimes when I get to riled up, but I'm at this zone where I can't do anything because I don't know anything about people. My friends that I have won't even take me seriously when talking about relationships, they just dismiss my opinions because they have all had girlfriends and I haven't so I obviously don't know what goddam human emotions are.

sigh, I hate my life, I really do. I wish people were less superficial about relationships and sex but they aren't, and people who are shy like myself suffer for it.

 

[Robert Ewing]

I think sex is awesome. Not really the experience, as when i'm doing it, it's usually... Erm, not all it's cracked up to be, and I often get incredibly bored. (I'm going to hell if my partner see's this.)

However, despite my low levels of sexual pleasure, I still find my self subconsciously trying to acquire it. In my mind it seems that sex is the ultimate goal that I must reach. And when my partner does finally allow me to do it, I get much more of a buzz out of pleasuring her than when she pleasures me.

It must be some sort of a bonding complex or something. That coupled with the years of internet porn and forever alone nights that have filled my time up until now, completely desensitizing me from any and all sexual stimulation. So yeah, the bonding complex, I must be addicted to the reactions that my partner gives after I pleasure her, I don't really care what she does with me.

But I don't think sex is overrated, I think sex is a wonderful experience, one we should get comfortable with a lot earlier in my opinion. All of this 'criminalizing?' sex just leads to young people to fight the power and do it anyway, especially here in Britain. Most people I know didn't want to take the law into account when with their loved ones.

 

[Buffoon]

Yeah, I'm almost inclined to agree that, for me, sex is overrated. Some people seem to really love it, to require it almost, which I imagine is quite nice if you also happen to be sexually attractive and don't have to stress too much about actually finding a partner.

I personally was a virgin for a verrrry long time. I wanted to have sex, sure, but it was never the driving force for me that it seemed to be for many of my peers. So it took me a long time to overcome my significant self-esteem issues. But eventually I found a girlfriend. And in a way, I lucked out. She was very open-minded, very eager and considerate and willing. But it soon became apparent that she attached a lot more significance to sex than I did. For me it was something cool to do, for her it was something like a religious experience. Which kind of put a bit of pressure on me.

Eh, the only thing I'm sure of is that there are no universals when it comes to sex, it's so many different things to different people.

 

[Naeras]

Heh, this was a rather fitting topic for me right now, as this is pretty much exactly what I was thinking this morning after the girl I had sex with last night left my dorm. Which should also point out my perspective here: I'm sleeping around rather frequently as it's what I'll get as long as I'm single. As far as I see it, there's nothing wrong with that as long as nobody gets hurt, and hell, I'm usually having fun with it. Yet, like I said, I woke up today thinking about pretty much exactly the topic here.

Yes, sex is overrated. But considering how much people sell it, how many myths that go around with it and how much people either brag about it, poke their noses around it and build their ego/social status around it, sex being overrated is totally unavoidable. A lot of this stuff could be reduced with good sexual education(which we, thankfully, have here in Norway), but it's still going to be there. And that blows.

Case of point, several friends of mine started bragging about their sexual experience from the age of 14-15. Now, I had no reason not to believe them, but it was quite a crack in my confidence as I honestly couldn't even participate in the conversations in a meaningful way. Turns out, one of the guys got into relationships he hated solely to get laid, and suffered quite bad from that, but getting laid still garnered him some weird respect. When I got my first girlfriend, another of those braggers, who's later admitted he was a virgin longer than I was, pretty much lost all form of confidence, felt he really needed to lose his virginity, and went to the point of pressuring a female friend of ours into sleeping with him, just to not be the "sole virgin" in our gang. Needless to say, those two didn't speak with each others for almost two years afterwards.
I also had some issues with my first girlfriend over sex, as I also imagined everyone else had better sex than us and none of us were ever good enough in bed, and that's one of the (many) things that eventually led to our break-up.

Now, was any of this actually worth it for either me or my friends? No. Not a single one of us thinks sex is so amazing that doing any of the stupid shit we did was worth it. But it garnered respect from both each others and everyone else we knew, so we pretended or tried to have excessive super-sex five times a day. It's just completely idiotic.

Still, like I said, I do enjoy sex, I have my urges, and I'm not afraid to admit that. But I've thankfully come to realize that there are other things in life that matter, and I'm also at the point where I almost never judge people for their choices in terms of sexuality. I'd honestly wish more people would think along those lines.