Sexism against men

[RagnarokHybrid]

im a guy, and im sure female rape victims have a right to be paranoid and scared, but id b pretty ok about being raped by a woman. i think its not rape if you enjoy it.

"If you enjoy it" are key words. Getting an erection or having an orgasm doesn't automatically translate to enjoyment.

I do agree that men have done many things in defense of women but if women don't ask to be protected, they shouldn't be. I think the world is a lot more romantic than people realize. Women simply want to break men out of their chivalrous mindsets so they can actually live life without a leash.

Back to the topic, though, there is a huge double standard as is the case with anything, really. My existential argument for all this is that whatever any man has to say about it isn't going to change anything at this point. But that's just me.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Cases o

 

[Seventh Actuality]

You ever try and balance a pencil on your finger?

Go get a pencil, but put it on your finger really lopsided (but don't let it fall).

Then try to adjust it to balance it out.

What happens? The pencil ends up leaning the other way, doesn't it? It's now unbalanced, but in the opposite direction.

And when you try and put it back, the same will happen.

After some deliberation, you'll finally have it balanced on your finger... but it'll always wobble to and fro.

Think of sexism like that. Women started on the harsh end of things. Right now, though we don't have it nearly as bad as they did, men have it kinda bad. Some people might call it "reverse sexism" even though that makes no fucking sense and they should be slapped. Soon enough, though, it'll balance out, but that inequality will always be there, even if it isn't obvious or huge. The scales will always wobble. We just need to learn to deal with it when it comes.

Actually, sod my last post, this right here is the problem. When you view sexism as a constant tug-o'-war it implies that one gender must always be dominant, so the other has nothing to complain about. This bullshit is the reason that men's rights activists (again, the sincere ones, not the cowardly misogynists) end up viewing feminists as "the enemy" and feminists can't bring themselves to spare a thought for men who've been on the recieving end of a double standard. That's the kind of binary, tribalistic crap that helps create sexism in the first place.

(This post isn't particularly aimed at ZeroMachine; I've no idea what his actual views are, I just take exception to that metaphor.)

 

[retyopy]

Sexism against men is there, but if you think women have it better now then I want to live in your fucking world. Misogyny is ingrained into society and while women might have equal rights (in a handful of the more developed countries in the world) under law, the practice is still very different.

Does this make sexism against men any better? No, but the notion that that's somehow tied into women's rights going "too far" is complete fucking bullshit on every possible level.

What both feminists and men's rights activists (the actual men's rights activists, not the people who use "men's rights" as a veil for misogyny) both badly need to realise is that they should be on the same side. Men should campaign against misogyny, feminists should protest misandry - that's where equality actually lies. But fuck it, myopia is so much easier.

/srsface.

I never said anything about feminism "going too far." I just think that you have to pay attention to both sides of the scale.

 

[vxicepickxv]

How can a women rape a man, they wouldn't be har, and if they were it wouldn't be rape.

I feel like I shouldn't field this but that's not really true. Biologically, guys get hard whether or not they want to. And they may not get hard even though they do want to. The body and the mind are sometimes separate beings altogether.

The body might get hard, even if the rest of the body is on muscle relaxers, and the mind is also out to lunch.

http://somethingpositive.net/sp01282003.shtml

It's a pretty sick situation, but then again, if you've read the comic already, you already knew that.

 

[Android2137]

You ever try and balance a pencil on your finger?

Go get a pencil, but put it on your finger really lopsided (but don't let it fall).

Then try to adjust it to balance it out.

What happens? The pencil ends up leaning the other way, doesn't it? It's now unbalanced, but in the opposite direction.

And when you try and put it back, the same will happen.

After some deliberation, you'll finally have it balanced on your finger... but it'll always wobble to and fro.

Think of sexism like that. Women started on the harsh end of things. Right now, though we don't have it nearly as bad as they did, men have it kinda bad. Some people might call it "reverse sexism" even though that makes no fucking sense and they should be slapped. Soon enough, though, it'll balance out, but that inequality will always be there, even if it isn't obvious or huge. The scales will always wobble. We just need to learn to deal with it when it comes.

That is actually a very interesting metaphor. I never thought of it that way.

 

[kikon9]

Honestly, I would never say that sexism against men is really the problem so much as the societal stigma that guys receive as to how they should be and act. Many of the alleged "double-standards" in western society exist from that and not as a result of sexism. Sexism, to me anyway, implies a feeling of inherent inferiority towards one gender. While most of the double standards you've listed, such as male rapist victims or men being abused not being in the public eye, that arises from the fact that men (according to western culture anyway) are supposed to be unfeeling and unphased by anything, especially things done to them by women, and any man to whom these things happens, is immediately marked of as inferior in the minds of most people, so they either won't tell anyone, or won't receive any help when they do.

 

[Seventh Actuality]

Are there seriously people who don't believe a man can be raped by a woman if he gets a boner? Good. Fucking. Christ. Physical arousal can be instinctive and unavoidable during rape - it's the body's natural reaction to sexual activity of any kind. It does not make the experience wanted or enjoyable for the victim on any level. This idea that physical arousal that literally can't be helped = consent is one reason rape victims can experience shame and confusion about their trauma...so yeah. Hope everyone saying "ITS NOT RAPE IF YOU ENJOYED IT LOL" feels great about that.

Sexism against men is there, but if you think women have it better now then I want to live in your fucking world. Misogyny is ingrained into society and while women might have equal rights (in a handful of the more developed countries in the world) under law, the practice is still very different.

Does this make sexism against men any better? No, but the notion that that's somehow tied into women's rights going "too far" is complete fucking bullshit on every possible level.

What both feminists and men's rights activists (the actual men's rights activists, not the people who use "men's rights" as a veil for misogyny) both badly need to realise is that they should be on the same side. Men should campaign against misogyny, feminists should protest misandry - that's where equality actually lies. But fuck it, myopia is so much easier.

/srsface.

I never said anything about feminism "going too far." I just think that you have to pay attention to both sides of the scale.

Not you specifically, but it's something that rears its head pretty much every time the question of men's rights comes up, and the fallacy is encapsulated by ZeroMachine's pencil metaphor (again, no idea if that reflects his own belief or if it's just a bad metaphor).

 

[y1fella]

I actually know A guy who gets beat up by his girlfriend.
Well I don't know him but, I've met him and his girlfriend. Plus I'm only repeating rumors. But they do explain why he had a black eye when I met him. Plus I could believe it. he's skinny and short under five foot 6, where she is fairly tall (Id guess about 6'2)and a forward in the local women rugby team and just a bit of an alcoholic judging by the way she usually smells.
No ones willing to do anything about because they're afraid that it might humiliate the guy. So I guess that's fairly relevant.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

[quote="rollerfox88" post="18.30527

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

You ever try and balance a pencil on your finger?

Go get a pencil, but put it on your finger really lopsided (but don't let it fall).

Then try to adjust it to balance it out.

What happens? The pencil ends up leaning the other way, doesn't it? It's now unbalanced, but in the opposite direction.

And when you try and put it back, the same will happen.

After some deliberation, you'll finally have it balanced on your finger... but it'll always wobble to and fro.

Think of sexism like that.

Go to your freezer and see if you can find an ice lolly (or a 'Popsicle' if you're American). Unwrap it, but don't eat it. Imagine you're going to give this ice lolly to a friend of yours.

But oh no, it's very cold! Too cold to eat comfortably. Instead of giving it to them as is, try to warm it up for them. You can hold it in your hand and let your body heat melt it a bit, but that might get you sticky. So instead, you could get a hair-dryer and use that to melt it for them.

But if you put the setting too high... oh dear, it's now just a sugary puddle on the ground.

Think of condescending metaphors like that.

 

[Fugitive Panda]

I still stand by my point that sexism against men occurs far more infrequently than the inverse.

That depends on what qualifies as sexism to you. Discrimination and favoritism against men happens all the time, it's just not the kind of stuff you hear about in the news. There's a growing number of men who're noticing just how unfair marriage, divorce and child-rearing laws are, and how easy it is for women to completely screw them over on a whim while still looking like the victim. That's how sexism against men manifests.

Now, I know discrimination against women is still pretty rampant, but at least it's gotten to the point where an act of discrimination will clearly label the perpetrator as the 'bad guy'. The reason the issue keeps coming up with men, is that when someone discriminates against a white male, nobody gives a damn. There are a lot of examples where undeniably criminal behaviour was 'justified' simply because their victim happened to be a white male in his 20s or 30s.

 

[gallaetha_matt]

I actually wanted to do a little research before I came gunning into this thread with wild opinion and speculation. Which is what I usually do and I always end up either losing or having to change my locks. People get fucking vicious about gender politics, let me tell ya.

But somebody mentioned male rape above so I went hunting for numbers to see if it was as prevelant as everybody was saying.

Anyway, according to the most recent home office figures there were over 1,300 cases of rape against men recorded in 2010/2011, which is a 12% increase from last year. But then there have been over 14,000 reported cases of rape towards women, an increase of 5%.

That's fucking appalling. I know men are less likely to report rapes commited against them because it's not 'manly', but since only 11% of rape victims actually report it to the police there's still overwhelming evidence that states that women are more likely to get raped.

You can read these figures yourself; http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb1011/hosb1011?view=Binary

I mean, I'm kind've going off the topic a bit, and I'm probably ruining a few people's day (I certainly ruined mine) but I still think this kind've proves that men have it way easier in society. At least they do in the UK anyway. Not sure how it is in other western countries because I don't have time to run through them all.

Yeah there are other things to factor in aside from rape statistics. This thread was actually about how male and female roles are perceived in society, right? But I still think that for every advert that paints men as these dumb, hulking idiots incapable of looking after themselves; there are an equal number of shows and adverts that paint women as shallow, materialistic and physically weak. Men ain't the only ones that get stereotyped in the media. Female stereotyping is both more prevelant and it's been going on a hell of a lot longer.

I mean, look at Sex In The City .

I'm kind of half joking on that one. I'm trying to lighten the mood but man, those stats depressed the hell out of me. Rapes are increasing? That's not cool.

 

[retyopy]

How can a women rape a man, they wouldn't be har, and if they were it wouldn't be rape.

right, because a boner = consent.

Technically, a woman cant rape a man, as its legally defined as penile insertion without the victims consent, and women dont have penies...But in my mind, a woman raping a man was more along the lines of a broom handle up the bum, not viagra induced sex.

Technicalities are for technicians, and I'm not a technician.

 

[retyopy]

I actually wanted to do a little research before I came gunning into this thread with wild opinion and speculation. Which is what I usually do and I always end up either losing or having to change my locks. People get fucking vicious about gender politics, let me tell ya.

But somebody mentioned male rape above so I went hunting for numbers to see if it was as prevelant as everybody was saying.

Anyway, according to the most recent home office figures there were over 1,300 cases of rape against men recorded in 2010/2011, which is a 12% increase from last year. But then there have been over 14,000 reported cases of rape towards women, an increase of 5%.

That's fucking appalling. I know men are less likely to report rapes commited against them because it's not 'manly', but since only 11% of rape victims actually report it to the police there's still overwhelming evidence that states that women are more likely to get raped.

You can read these figures yourself; http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/publications/science-research-statistics/research-statistics/crime-research/hosb1011/hosb1011?view=Binary

I mean, I'm kind've going off the topic a bit, and I'm probably ruining a few people's day (I certainly ruined mine) but I still think this kind've proves that men have it way easier in society. At least they do in the UK anyway. Not sure how it is in other western countries because I don't have time to run through them all.

Yeah there are other things to factor in aside from rape statistics. This thread was actually about how male and female roles are perceived in society, right? But I still think that for every advert that paints men as these dumb, hulking idiots incapable of looking after themselves; there are an equal number of shows and adverts that paint women as shallow, materialistic and physically weak. Men ain't the only ones that get stereotyped in the media. Female stereotyping is both more prevelant and it's been going on a hell of a lot longer.

I mean, look at Sex In The City .

I'm kind of half joking on that one. I'm trying to lighten the mood but man, those stats depressed the hell out of me. Rapes are increasing? That's not cool.

I've just lost faith in humanity, or at least I would have, if I hadn't already. But rape really isn't the subject. It's part of it, but not a very important.

 

[Jason Danger Keyes]

How can a women rape a man, they wouldn't be har, and if they were it wouldn't be rape.

Drugs like viagra can fix that issue quite easily. Also, the penis is a very fickle organ, and I'm sure any guy will know the horrors of random erections. The penis can be stimulated even when the man it's attached to is not. Throw in some intoxicants, threats, assault, restraints, or blackmail and you have a rape scenario. The sex of either party is irrelevant, forcing someone into sex against their will is rape.

 

[inquisiti0n]

I was merely saying that sexism against men really is practically a non-issue and that you and many others like you are making way too big of a deal out of something that occurs far more infrequently when compared to the figures of discrimination of literally every other minority there is.

That's idiotic. There's tons of areas where sexism against men is blatantly obvious, like family court where fathers lose custody to mothers even when the mother is unemployed or has alcohol/drug problems, or when men have to pay ridiculous of amounts of alimony to ex-wives when they divorce despite the fact that she contributed absolutely nothing.


Not to mention all the unfair laws that benefit women (ex. if a girlfriend/wife starts a fight and the neighbours call the cops, the guy is the one who is asked to leave regardless of whether or not the house is his).

there are an equal number of shows and adverts that paint women as shallow, materialistic and physically weak.

ummmmm.... because they are?