Sexism against men

[retyopy]

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ummmmm.... because they are?

Christ, way to refute the validity of your own argument. Also, a lot of people bring up the divorce courts thing, but that's a rare exception to an otherwise very one-sided ratio of discrimination and nothing to warrant any kind of panic about the treatment of men when they have it easy in just about every other respect.

Acknowledging the fact that the average man is physically stronger and taller than the average woman refutes my validity in what way? If you have a problem with that, take it up with mother nature. If however, you're just projecting and assumed I was implying that women are somehow inferior because of that physical difference, then that's on you.


Oh, and "a rare exception?" In other words, you're ok with the blatant discrimination in divorce courts and how men are financially fucked over in such cases because, according to you, other areas of society are rampantly misogynistic? Classy.

One at a time, people. No, I'm not saying that I'm okay with people getting stripped of their visitation rights, their home and their money out of some sort of karmic balance, it's a legitamate issue that needs tackling. My problem lies within people who act as though the influence of progressive attitudes in society is somehow trigerring some kind of conspirational misandrist agenda against. The paranoid types who think that feminists are somehow out to get them. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that anyone who has made of these kinds of threads, or legitimately believes that males have it just as bad or even worse than women are men themselves. Really, if your going to try and claim that the degree and frequency of sexism exhibited against men is equal to that committed against women you're either lying through your teeth or just fucking deluded. There are a minute number of cases of discrimination towards men, I'm not disputing that. But don't try to act like in the grand scheme of things that our struggle with these kinds of things is nearly as arduous as the kind of shit that women have to put up with.

Um... You'd be wrong there. Hi. I agree that woman have it far worse. I'm just voicing my opinion. Oh, and a "minute number of cases"? really? Do some research. Its probably far more apparent than you realize.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

One at a time, people. No, I'm not saying that I'm okay with people getting stripped of their visitation rights, their home and their money out of some sort of karmic balance, it's a legitamate issue that needs tackling. My problem lies within people who act as though the influence of progressive attitudes in society is somehow trigerring some kind of conspirational misandrist agenda against. The paranoid types who think that feminists are somehow out to get them. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that anyone who has made of these kinds of threads, or legitimately believes that males have it just as bad or even worse than women are men themselves. Really, if your going to try and claim that the degree and frequency of sexism exhibited against men is equal to that committed against women you're either lying through your teeth or just fucking deluded. There are a minute number of cases of discrimination towards men, I'm not disputing that. But don't try to act like in the grand scheme of things that our struggle with these kinds of things is nearly as arduous as the kind of shit that women have to put up with.

Yeah, except no one has said that men have it as bad as or worse than women, people are just specifically talking about issues of sexism that men face, and then you decided to condescend all the men who've been raped, all the men who've been fucked in divorce courts and all the men who've suffered domestic abuse by just telling them to deal with it because women have it so much tougher. You really do make me feel ill.

 

[retyopy]

Settle down people. This is leading to a flame war. No one likes flame wars.

Although all of you are making valid points. Just try to do it more calmly.

 

[inquisiti0n]

One at a time, people. No, I'm not saying that I'm okay with people getting stripped of their visitation rights, their home and their money out of some sort of karmic balance, it's a legitamate issue that needs tackling. My problem lies within people who act as though the influence of progressive attitudes in society is somehow trigerring some kind of conspirational misandrist agenda against. The paranoid types who think that feminists are somehow out to get them. I'm going to take a wild guess and assume that anyone who has made of these kinds of threads, or legitimately believes that males have it just as bad or even worse than women are men themselves. Really, if your going to try and claim that the degree and frequency of sexism exhibited against men is equal to that committed against women you're either lying through your teeth or just fucking deluded. There are a minute number of cases of discrimination towards men, I'm not disputing that. But don't try to act like in the grand scheme of things that our struggle with these kinds of things is nearly as arduous as the kind of shit that women have to put up with.

I'm not playing "oppression olympics" here. Dunno what the other ppl you quoted wrote, but I'm not wasting time comparing who has it worse, though I still strongly disagree that women flatout have it worse.

You keep claiming that sexism against men is minute and insignificant, which is an attitude I've seen in a lot of feminists. Such feminists usually see these types of things as a zero sum game. They think exposure to men's issues takes attention away from feminist issues, and acknowledging false rape accusations takes attention away from actual rape, etc. First of all, nearly half of all marriages are now ending in divorce, right? So how can sexist divorce laws possibly be "minute?"

And please, address how it was wrong of me to say that the average woman is physically weaker. I just wanna know if you're one of those feminists who go so far as to ignore the physical differences between the sexes.

 

[Booradlee]

What if the positions were reversed? Two girls try to help a muscular, handsome man, but end up being ditzy and having to be helped by the manly man.

This is often referred to as the Pendulum effect, and many people believe it to b a good thing. The idea is to allow it to swing less and less over time. Hopefully one day it will reach the point where it *EDIT eventually stops.*

Feminism is the empowering of Women.
Not necessarily a bad thing. But it should not be continued on forever.

Egalitarianism's general premise is that people should be treated as equals on certain dimensions such as race, religion, ethnicity, sex, political affiliation, economic status, social status, and cultural heritage.

I only support Feminism in developing countries.
I support Egalitarianism in developed countries.

 

[Haratu]

I have met many fathers who are often criticised when going out with their daughters without the mother for being child molesters and so forth, one even got kicked out of a public park for simply taking a photo of his daughter playing in the park. It is just as common for women to molest children as it is for men to molest children (well, at least where I am it is), yet people have a problem with a man and his daughter but not a woman and her son.

If people want men to step up and be great fathers and take a role in life, especially if a woman is to be working as well. it seems society wants woman to take on traditional men's jobs but is unwilling to let men take on some of the traditional women's jobs. How is that equality?

 

[retyopy]

I have met many fathers who are often criticised when going out with their daughters without the mother for being child molesters and so forth, one even got kicked out of a public park for simply taking a photo of his daughter playing in the park. It is just as common for women to molest children as it is for men to molest children, yet people have a problem with a man and his daughter but not a woman and her son.

If people want men to step up and be great fathers and take a role in life, especially if a woman is to be working as well. it seems society wants woman to take on traditional men's jobs but is unwilling to let men take on some of the traditional women's jobs. How is that equality?

I apologize in advance for this.

True Dat!

 

[Andothul]

How can a women rape a man, they wouldn't be har, and if they were it wouldn't be rape.

The level of ignorance of male anatomy in this statement boggles my mind.

 

[inquisiti0n]

God, I can't believe they said something so stupid. Seriously, physical strength =/= a good thing, nor does it =/= a bad thing. It just is.

Most females are more flexible and agile than most males, does that make them better? No it makes them different.

Different =/= better or worse it = different.

Why is so much of humanity so intolerably stupid?

Who exactly are you referring to when you say "they?"

 

[Panda Mania]

HOWEVER, dear sir/madam, keep in mind that the vast majority (and I do mean vast--I'm speaking on a global scale here) of situations involve men marginalizing women. Think not of the petty lawsuits of favoritism here ("she's only the boss 'cause she's a woman!"), but of the dire conditions of millions of women around the world--women suffering economic oppression and brutal gender-based violence. Until this world finally, finally comes to treat women as equal, I think the focus should be on empowering women. Not to say that cases of "reverse-sexism" should be ignored, no, not at all, but they shouldn't be the thing people get outraged about. Visit Pakistan and Chad and Egypt and India and then tell me who needs justice.

While it's undeniable that women in such countries face real issues, it's a mistake to defer to feminism in thinking that that's what they need most. What they require are basic human rights, because in reality, the lives of men there aren't much better.


Alot of "female empowerment" policies are simply financial handouts. For example, most western universities have female-only scholarships for STEM programs. Is it realistic to expect men to see their female peers as equal when they're being handed money for basically having a vagina? I mean really, is that gonna help people see each other as equals? Not to mention that the justification of such scholarships even existing is incredibly weak and laughable.

Wait, hold on, I wasn't talking about here...I was talking about over in Third World countries, where any kind of scholarship is rare since...well, education itself is scarce.

Men don't have it much better? *shuffles feet* Well...Eh, I guess by our standards, it all looks pretty terrible. But if you lower your perspective and look at the society on its own, women do not have the same rights as men do. Not in a "oh, they're just different rights" way, but in a "their worth is less than that of men" way. And human rights is the answer to such a society, but a part of human rights is about equality and equal opportunity, and that includes the equality of the sexes.

Feminism needs a new name. -_- It's causing more problems and misunderstandings now than solutions.

And in answer to your "handouts" point...Yes, many policies about empowerment, period (not just female) are unfortunately more of a "throw money at 'em!" nature. That's why smart, shrewd people come up with aid that seeks to help people help themselves. That's how you can tell a good humanitarian aid organization from a bad one.

 

[Haratu]

For those pointing out women are different then there are several generalisations that are useful:

Women are better at:
organising
Mathematics (not applied)
Have heavier brains (implications unknown)
Immune system (resist disease better)
Genetic disease (less genetic disease in women)

Men are better at:
Physical Strength
Applied mathematics
Spatial awareness (3D orientation)

Apart from those there are several social skills that are handled different, but whether one is better than another is highly debatable since males and females deal with them differently based upon culture.

 

[Screamarie]

I get the whole issue and yes there is inequality. Yes, it is horrible that men get raped and yes, we need more attention to it, but there has to be at least some male ego in the fact that male rape isn't reported. Considering the general mindset of America and how they view men, what man is going to actually stand up and have written in a paper or broadcasted on TV that "A woman overpowered me, beat me, and raped me" It's sad, it shouldn't have to happen, but it's true. I'm not saying it's all men's fault, I'm just saying that there are other reasons for it.

Feminism has gotten out of hand. There are plenty of women who use feminism to keep men down, thinking that it's somehow vindication because of what happened in the past. I don't agree with these women and I think they're using their gender to get their way. But there is still good in feminism, not every woman out there takes it too far to the point where anything against a female is considered offensive, there are still men out there that believe that feminism was a tragedy and that women should be still in the kitchen, so there is still use for it.

What you're getting upset about is getting more and more attention and it will change, but given time.

And even more than that...you're getting upset about a commercial. Think about it. Girls win against boys, boys win against girls, in cartoons and commercials all the time. It's a commercial garnered to get young girls to buy shoes that will get them to beat boys in sports. Young girls that think boys drool and girls rule. I think your reading a little too much into advertising.

 

[retyopy]

I think this thread has gone to bad, bad places. please don't hold me responsible for anything anybody says here.

 

[OmniscientOstrich]

Yeah, except no one has said that men have it as bad as or worse than women, people are just specifically talking about issues of sexism that men face, and then you decided to condescend all the men who've been raped, all the men who've been fucked in divorce courts and all the men who've suffered domestic abuse by just telling them to deal with it because women have it so much tougher. You really do make me feel ill.

No I did not tell the men who had to face those atrocities to deal with it. I told the people who have never had to face any such discrimination of this manner, who feel the need to defend the rights of their gender regardless of their privilaged position (I guarantee you it is ALWAYS males complaining about this) and who think that political correctness, progressive attitudes and feminism are creating more or causing the ignorance of more descrimination towars our gender. Those people and only those people I firmly told to deal with it.

 

[Panda Mania]

I only support Feminism in developing countries.
I support Egalitarianism in developed countries.

I like that philosophy.

 

[Sariteiya]

I certainly feel there are huge double standards at work nowadays. Men are portrayed as stupid, boorish, violent and oversexed. Rape against men is funny, etc.

However, I really don't feel like men should feel these stereotypes are all women's fault. Consider that a lot of shows and media that perpetuate these views are produced by men or written by men. I think it's less of a "female conspiracy", and rather an unattractive habit of society in general.

 

[Booradlee]

Who exactly are you referring to when you say "they?"

I think to fully explain first it must be understood that the word 'You' can be used in the plural.

Our mutual speaker was referring to the person who spoke in the plural, but not speaking directly to them to show his disdain for what they said.

It is not incorrect to refer to one person as a 'they'. Particularly when speaking in the Gender neutral.

 

[inquisiti0n]

Men don't have it much better? *shuffles feet* Well...Eh, I guess by our standards, it all looks pretty terrible. But if you lower your perspective and look at the society on its own, women do not have the same rights as men do. Not in a "oh, they're just different rights" way, but in a "their worth is less than that of men" way. And human rights is the answer to such a society, but a part of human rights is about equality and equal opportunity, and that includes the equality of the sexes.

I think saying that "more" rights automatically means they have it better is kind of shallow. Working conditions in third countries are terrible, though the ones working the worst jobs there are usually the men. Men also have far more responsibility, both in and out of the family, and generally face more stress. Not to mention that third world countries have a lot of wars and conflicts, which are almost exclusively fought by men. And stuff like conscription, etc.

Again, I would never make a broad statement that either sex undeniably has it worse than the other, I just think you're vastly oversimplifying it if you're only looking at rights.

 

[ItsAChiaotzu]

Yeah, except no one has said that men have it as bad as or worse than women, people are just specifically talking about issues of sexism that men face, and then you decided to condescend all the men who've been raped, all the men who've been fucked in divorce courts and all the men who've suffered domestic abuse by just telling them to deal with it because women have it so much tougher. You really do make me feel ill.

No I did not tell the men who had to face those atrocities to deal with it. I told the people who have never had to face any such discrimination of this manner, who feel the need to defend the rights of their gender regardless of their privilaged position (I guarantee you it is ALWAYS males complaining about this) and who think that political correctness, progressive attitudes and feminism are creating more or causing the ignorance of more descrimination towars our gender. Those people and only those people I firmly told to deal with it.

Seriously, every time you post you just sound more evil, it's scary.
I mean, because how fucking dare someone who hasn't been abused try to stick up for people who have, the fucking nerve. Ugh, I'm done, I don't wanna get banned talking to you.