Sexism...society or human nature?

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Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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this article

http://www.cracked.com/article_19785_5-ways-modern-men-are-trained-to-hate-women.html

is what got me thinking about this

unfortunatly it shows that in (some ways) sexism is alive and well, one thing that I can agree with completly in that list is the fact that no matter what..a womans looks are going to matter, regardless if its actually relevent to what she does (we have an female prime minister..and people dont think its odd that they make a big deal about her fashion sense)

but anyway....

do is sexism just a fundamental part of human nature? or is it somthing grown out of society? granted that would depend entirly on what your specifically talking about

and Im inclined to be rather split on this...I mean sure some stuff is natural BUT that said with all kinds of cultures can we really some things are so set in stone? and "human nature" could certainly be exploited as some kind of excuse...

mabye?
 

Kahunaburger

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I think it's a combination of the human nature to be assholes and society giving humans a specific way to be assholes.
 

Vault101

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Mortai Gravesend said:
Looking at the article(even though I know it doesn't look like the main topic or anything, I just like to comment on things like that. And it's all in nice list form!)...

#5 sounds like it goes a tad far in how it depicts it, though it IS Cracked so not surprising, but I definitely do see people with the attitude. They seem to think that they're somehow shorted by not getting a girl or when some particular girl doesn't want them. Really hate that attitude.

.
yeah...that seemes to come fromt he "worst" kind of "nice guy" you see ont he internet

they act like the girl doesnt have any say in the matter....like she's NOT going out with them because she's a *****..because EVERYONE wants to be in a relationship every waking moment of their lives because THATS WHAT PEOPLE DO?
 

DudeistBelieve

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The way Sexism began, as it was explained to me in college is like this:

Back in cave man times, no one knew how babies where made. Just that every once in a while a female would grow a large belly and a baby would pop out. At that time, it was chaotic but okay. The men continued to hunt, the women stayed back to gather berries and what not. So the majority of the day, the sexes were separated.

Eventually man realized that it was the act of sex that created a child nine months later. This revelation created a problem the moment man realized he could never be sure the child was his or not, because while he was out hunting whos to say she wasn't sleeping with someone else. This is how Mysongyny was born, because Men realized that... Oh! This bundle of joy isn't a gift from the sun! This bundle of joy pops out of the women 9 months after sticking the penis in the vagina. Then realizing that ANY penis would do, that the only person who could truly know who a babies father was the women, and this naturally made them feel very insecure... Leading to the cycle of trying to keep them down.

The ironic thing? Now we have the technology to find out who the father is once the child is born... and for some reason we don't do it automatically. Hell, try and get a girl to agree to it with out getting her upset, unless she's a true feminist she wont.

And if you raise a child for some odd years and then find out it wasn't yours after paying years of child support? Government says you can't get the money back and have to keep paying. Seriously, google that. S'fucked up, I think everyone will agree but I'm getting off tangent.

Misogyny is merely man's reaction to being incredible insecure. Though it's obviously wrong, I find it understandable how it came about.
 

DudeistBelieve

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Mortai Gravesend said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
The ironic thing? Now we have the technology to find out who the father is once the child is born... and for some reason we don't do it automatically. Hell, try and get a girl to agree to it with out getting her upset, unless she's a true feminist she wont.
Wtf does that have to do with equality? That sounds like BS, has nothing to do with being a 'true' feminist. Why the hell would we do it automatically just because some people are insecure and there is a potential for cheating? I do not see why everyone needs to buy into the idea that there's nothing to worry about if you're innocent, it's still an imposition on you. And it is questioning their integrity.
Feminist Ideal believes not in superority for one gender but equality for all.

A women, generally, knows who has came inside her. Generally the man signing his name on the birth certificate doesn't unless he's keeping his woman under lock and key 24/7. Also, seeing as how the baby is coming OUT of the women, everyone in that hospital room knows genetically it have the womens. It is taken on good faith it's the mans, simply because the man and woman says so... But again, really only the woman generally know for sure.

Seeing as how once your name is on the birth certificate your legally responsible for that child MONETARILY, the situation is completely lopsided in the females favor. And true gender EQUALITY has no lopsides.

And honestly can you name a good reason it isn't just done automatically? While leave something so vital up to anyones- REGARDLESS OF GENDER- word? But most get upset because, yeah, they view it as a lack of trust... but come the fuck on, it's not about trust it's about whats fair. A father has a right to know not on faith, but 100% weather he's that kids father or not before he signs a legal document binding him to it financially. This is just common sense.
 

aba1

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Mortai Gravesend said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
The ironic thing? Now we have the technology to find out who the father is once the child is born... and for some reason we don't do it automatically. Hell, try and get a girl to agree to it with out getting her upset, unless she's a true feminist she wont.
Wtf does that have to do with equality? That sounds like BS, has nothing to do with being a 'true' feminist. Why the hell would we do it automatically just because some people are insecure and there is a potential for cheating? I do not see why everyone needs to buy into the idea that there's nothing to worry about if you're innocent, it's still an imposition on you. And it is questioning their integrity.
Ya I agree I think the mother getting upset would be more or less because of your lack of trust combined with a essential accusation of cheating
 

DudeistBelieve

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aba1 said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
The ironic thing? Now we have the technology to find out who the father is once the child is born... and for some reason we don't do it automatically. Hell, try and get a girl to agree to it with out getting her upset, unless she's a true feminist she wont.
Wtf does that have to do with equality? That sounds like BS, has nothing to do with being a 'true' feminist. Why the hell would we do it automatically just because some people are insecure and there is a potential for cheating? I do not see why everyone needs to buy into the idea that there's nothing to worry about if you're innocent, it's still an imposition on you. And it is questioning their integrity.
Ya I agree I think the mother getting upset would be more or less because of your lack of trust combined with a essential accusation of cheating
Mortai Gravesend said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
The ironic thing? Now we have the technology to find out who the father is once the child is born... and for some reason we don't do it automatically. Hell, try and get a girl to agree to it with out getting her upset, unless she's a true feminist she wont.
Wtf does that have to do with equality? That sounds like BS, has nothing to do with being a 'true' feminist. Why the hell would we do it automatically just because some people are insecure and there is a potential for cheating? I do not see why everyone needs to buy into the idea that there's nothing to worry about if you're innocent, it's still an imposition on you. And it is questioning their integrity.
http://www.legalzoom.com/marriage-divorce-family-law/child-support/can-you-get-refund

Pasted:

You did the right thing when your girlfriend came to you with the news she was pregnant?you signed an admission of paternity (conveniently provided to you by your local district attorney) and started making the obligatory monthly child support payments.

Now, your girlfriend wants to break up and wants nothing to do with you. And oh, by the way, she has a news flash for you. You know the child you've been supporting? The little girl who's been calling you daddy and snuggling on your lap? The child you've been buying birthday and Christmas gifts for over the last six years? Guess what, sucker, you're not the baby's daddy after all.

What now? What about the over $20,000 in child support payments you've made over the past six years? It sure adds up fast, doesn't it? Are you entitled to get that money back?

The answer, unfortunately in today's legal environment, is no. In fact, under the laws of most states, even if you find out the child you've been supporting is not your biological child, you will still be on the hook for child support until the child reaches 18.

More often than is widely known, a paternity case may turn out to be the kind of situation where nice guys actually finish last. Mothers who are receiving state aid are required to provide the district attorney with the name of the child's father so that the county can recover a portion of that aid through child support payments. Mothers who are not receiving state aid can also go to the district attorney for assistance in collecting child support payments.

Unfortunately, studies have shown that, for a variety of reasons, including fear, wishful thinking, or not wanting to be joined for life to the jerk who is the baby's daddy, single moms may provide the DA with the wrong name in connection with a child support claim. And many men, having absolutely no reason to doubt that the child belongs to them, do the right thing and start making those monthly payments, no questions asked.

Under the laws of most states, once a man has signed an acknowledgment of paternity and a judgment of paternity has been entered by the Court, it's a done deal and there's no turning back. In the eyes of the law, a father-child relationship has been established.

For obvious reasons, legal movers and shakers have no reason to want to change that. They are interested in collecting child support payments from a father. Unfortunately, in some instances, any father will do. Once you're on the hook, they have no reason to want to let you go.

But, paternity has been voided in some cases where there is strong evidence that the man in question is not the father. The men involved were able to obtain scientific evidence through DNA testing that the child truly was not theirs and they were able to convince the DA or the courts to make an exception.

The lesson: All men faced with a claim of paternity should request DNA testing before admitting paternity or signing anything. This is your legal right. And, it holds true no matter how much you trust the mother of your child. Trust has little to do with it.

It is an obligation you owe not only to yourself and to the child's mother, but to the child as well. Paternity has implications that reach far beyond an obligation to make monthly child support payments. The father-child relationship carries with it strong emotional and psychological bonds.

Beyond this, once a man is legally adjudged to be a child's father, he can have his wages garnished for child support and can be court-ordered to seek employment. He can also be criminally prosecuted and do jail time if he fails to make child support payments. Also, under the laws of most states, the child will be obligated to support the father if he becomes incapacitated. And, unless specifically excluded by will, the child will be entitled to share in the father's estate after he dies. Thus, as one court noted, the implications of a father-child relationship "reach beyond the grave."

So start things off on the right foot and get the paternity issue settled at the outset. Once you're on the hook for child support, it may very well be too late to turn back the clock. If at some point down the road evidence surfaces that the child may not be yours, good luck trying to get your local district attorney to agree to a DNA test at that point. It ain't gonna happen.

Bottom line: Will you be entitled to a refund of child support later on, if it comes to light that you are not the child's father after all? No. Can you undo the emotional damage to you and to the child? Probably not. Your child deserves to have you go into this with your whole heart. So, take care of the legal stuff now, put it behind you, and get on with the business of raising your child.

The lesson: All men faced with a claim of paternity should request DNA testing before admitting paternity or signing anything. This is your legal right. And, it holds true no matter how much you trust the mother of your child. Trust has little to do with it.
Like I said. Feminist believe in Gender Equality. A true feminist shouldn't ***** about a DNA blood test at the childs birth, for this reason.
 

DudeistBelieve

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Mortai Gravesend said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
The ironic thing? Now we have the technology to find out who the father is once the child is born... and for some reason we don't do it automatically. Hell, try and get a girl to agree to it with out getting her upset, unless she's a true feminist she wont.
Wtf does that have to do with equality? That sounds like BS, has nothing to do with being a 'true' feminist. Why the hell would we do it automatically just because some people are insecure and there is a potential for cheating? I do not see why everyone needs to buy into the idea that there's nothing to worry about if you're innocent, it's still an imposition on you. And it is questioning their integrity.
Feminist Ideal believes not in superority for one gender but equality for all.
No duh. It's spelled superiority btw, while we're on the subject of lecturing people unnecessarily.

A women, generally, knows who has came inside her. Generally the man signing his name on the birth certificate doesn't unless he's keeping his woman under lock and key 24/7. Also, seeing as how the baby is coming OUT of the women, everyone in that hospital room knows genetically it have the womens. It is taken on good faith it's the mans, simply because the man and woman says so... But again, really only the woman generally know for sure.
And? It isn't a matter of equality for him to know. Just because she knows doesn't mean he has to know. It isn't as if she was given this information from on high and now the same impartial third party source is denying it to him.

Seeing as how once your name is on the birth certificate your legally responsible for that child MONETARILY, the situation is completely lopsided in the females favor. And true gender EQUALITY has no lopsides.
So how about you do the smart thing and instead of coming up with stupid accusations that people who don't want to get tested are against equality you deal with the monetary obligation instead? Like think of something basic, such as making the obligation require testing if asked?

And honestly can you name a good reason it isn't just done automatically?
Because there's no need for it. Oooh shot down!

While leave something so vital up to anyones- REGARDLESS OF GENDER- word?
It isn't vital.

But most get upset because, yeah, they view it as a lack of trust... but come the fuck on, it's not about trust it's about whats fair.
Come the fuck on, it's not about fairness. People having a better guess than someone else isn't unfair in and of itself. It's like whining that an athlete knows his strengths better than a competitor does. Based on how he got the information there's nothing unfair about it. So yes, it is necessarily about a lack of trust.

A father has a right to know not on faith, but 100% weather he's that kids father or not before he signs a legal document binding him to it financially. This is just common sense.
Common sense? Well gee, maybe you should apply that for a change? Like not signing documents without being sure instead of making retarded demands to test all children?
Again, I'll repost it because I'm pretty sure you missed it.

http://www.legalzoom.com/marriage-divorce-family-law/child-support/can-you-get-refund

There is no reason not to get a DNA test at birth. It's not even about trust, it's about being monetarily responsible.
 

aba1

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Mortai Gravesend said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
I am just going to toss this out there but if you are having a child with a person and you don't trust them enough that you have even the slightest uncertainty that it is you biological child you likely shouldn't be having the child together to begin with.

However my girlfriend just informed me that the DNA tests can be used for genetic screening for any flaws that could be fixed so it can be used for health reasons. (My girlfriend studies biological technologies which includes DNA)
 

DudeistBelieve

TellEmSteveDave.com
Sep 9, 2010
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Mortai Gravesend said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
The ironic thing? Now we have the technology to find out who the father is once the child is born... and for some reason we don't do it automatically. Hell, try and get a girl to agree to it with out getting her upset, unless she's a true feminist she wont.
Wtf does that have to do with equality? That sounds like BS, has nothing to do with being a 'true' feminist. Why the hell would we do it automatically just because some people are insecure and there is a potential for cheating? I do not see why everyone needs to buy into the idea that there's nothing to worry about if you're innocent, it's still an imposition on you. And it is questioning their integrity.
Feminist Ideal believes not in superority for one gender but equality for all.
No duh. It's spelled superiority btw, while we're on the subject of lecturing people unnecessarily.

A women, generally, knows who has came inside her. Generally the man signing his name on the birth certificate doesn't unless he's keeping his woman under lock and key 24/7. Also, seeing as how the baby is coming OUT of the women, everyone in that hospital room knows genetically it have the womens. It is taken on good faith it's the mans, simply because the man and woman says so... But again, really only the woman generally know for sure.
And? It isn't a matter of equality for him to know. Just because she knows doesn't mean he has to know. It isn't as if she was given this information from on high and now the same impartial third party source is denying it to him.

Seeing as how once your name is on the birth certificate your legally responsible for that child MONETARILY, the situation is completely lopsided in the females favor. And true gender EQUALITY has no lopsides.
So how about you do the smart thing and instead of coming up with stupid accusations that people who don't want to get tested are against equality you deal with the monetary obligation instead? Like think of something basic, such as making the obligation require testing if asked?

And honestly can you name a good reason it isn't just done automatically?
Because there's no need for it. Oooh shot down!

While leave something so vital up to anyones- REGARDLESS OF GENDER- word?
It isn't vital.

But most get upset because, yeah, they view it as a lack of trust... but come the fuck on, it's not about trust it's about whats fair.
Come the fuck on, it's not about fairness. People having a better guess than someone else isn't unfair in and of itself. It's like whining that an athlete knows his strengths better than a competitor does. Based on how he got the information there's nothing unfair about it. So yes, it is necessarily about a lack of trust.

A father has a right to know not on faith, but 100% weather he's that kids father or not before he signs a legal document binding him to it financially. This is just common sense.
Common sense? Well gee, maybe you should apply that for a change? Like not signing documents without being sure instead of making retarded demands to test all children?
Again, I'll repost it because I'm pretty sure you missed it.

http://www.legalzoom.com/marriage-divorce-family-law/child-support/can-you-get-refund

There is no reason not to get a DNA test at birth. It's not even about trust, it's about being monetarily responsible.
I'll repost this again since apparently you didn't read it:

"Common sense? Well gee, maybe you should apply that for a change? Like not signing documents without being sure instead of making retarded demands to test all children?"

There is no reason to force a DNA test at birth.

And don't lie, that's pathetic. It's about trust. Monetary responsibility is only an issue if you don't trust them. They aren't mutually exclusive. Also instead of whining about the women, whine about the system. How about instead of making up incorrect accusations about 'true' feminism you blame the party that's actually responsible?
From WIKIPEDIA:

Feminism is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.
What party is responsible for what? A child is born. We have all this tech that can tell us who the father is, conclusively. No doubt. No worry. This guy next to you in the delivery room is either the childs father or he's not. Not doing the paternity test is like that scene in Star Wars III.

Ya know, Princess Leia is dying, and despite all the medical equipment and doctors not a single fucking character makes a move to try and save her life. There is little point in relying on a man and woman's word about who the father is, unless it's for the "romanticism" of "Oh don't you trust me?"

Which, hey, men and women cheat on their spouses. Men and women both lie. Both genders can be conniving fucks. So uh, whats your platform on why we should just leave this to anyone's word when we have the means to know conclusively?

Also #YoureJustTrolling
 

aba1

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Mar 18, 2010
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Mortai Gravesend said:
aba1 said:
Mortai Gravesend said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
I am just going to toss this out there but if you are having a child with a person and you don't trust them enough that you have even the slightest uncertainty that is you biological child you likely shouldn't be having the child together to begin with.

However my girlfriend just informed me that the DNA tests can be used for genetic screening for any flaws that could be fixed so it can be used for health reasons. (My girlfriend studies biological technologies which includes DNA)
Well sometimes it'll happen by accident, so unfortunately even though I agree if you don't trust someone enough you shouldn't have a kid, that fact won't really help much.

DNA tests would be good for that reason. I'd accept that kind of thing for that reason, but that seems to be the last thing on his mind.
To be fair if your having the child out of a accident the relationship likely isn't all that strong either cause it was a fling or that you are early in so offending the mother a little isn't AS MUCH of a issue there either :p

It is a valid point though that some births are accidental