SEXISM! What's with the standards?

[Darius Brogan]

snip

I notice in your posts you have placed a much greater emphasis on double standards that affect men as opposed to double standards that affect women.

Isn't that, like, y'know... a DOUBLE STANDARD?

EDIT:

Sexism has become so ingrained into society

No it has not become ingrained, it has always been ingrained. A subtle difference, but an important one.

Well, I could most certainly have worded my comments better, yes, but it was three am and I was really really tired at the time.

However, I do not, in any way, mean to focus specifically on the double standard towards men, but it IS being more-or-less overlooked by most of society, while women are getting some rather large attention groups.

Double standards of any kind are ridiculous, and I'm seriously surprised at how common they are in todays world.

Also: That is very true...

 

[Darius Brogan]

Yeah, well call it reparations for women being treated like animals for....thousands of years. I'm sorry worse than animals. I'm pretty sure the family dog was treated better than the wife, in some cases.

I'm going to make this as clear as humanly possible: NOBODY DESERVES REPARATIONS FOR SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED TO SOMEBODY ELSE HUNDREDS OR THOUSANDS OF YEARS AGO! Clear enough?

Go back and read a history book, and you'll realize that, in some way shape or form, everybody has been treated worse than dirt at some point in time.

Women were seen as property for a goodly portion of time, but were they ever whipped and beaten until they couldn't stand after working an 18hour day in a cotton field? I doubt it.

Were they wantonly massacred by invaders looking to claim new land? Seriously doubt that too.

Women fought for their rights, and they won.
African Americans fought for their rights, and they got them.
Natives fought for their land, and they got it.

Reparations are just a pathetic excuse for people who've rarely, if ever, been inconvenienced to ***** and whine about something that happened to their great great great grandparents, and expect money or preferential treatment in return.

 

[Bradeck]

Judging by the tone of your story, your friend was a union employee. Having worked for several years in a management office for the discipline of all union employees under our contract, and having attended countless arbitration meetings, I can positively assure you of two things.

1. Women get preferential treatment during litigation proceedings concerning unions, due in large part to the effect that most Unions have a male and a female representative for their members, and the women is without question always the sharper on the paperwork side. 4

Which leads me to...

2. Arbitrators always go with the paperwork. They are not like normal judges. They look at all the paperwork put forward by both parties, and rule off that. If your friend had a clear and well viewed habit of perceived sexual harassment or negative behavior,

And rest assured, the FIRST thing management does in these cases is stop the office, cold. Then they spend a day or week, depending on the size, getting written statements from EVERY worker in that office, going back 365 days, or the "statute of limitations for discipline". If the witness statements show any behavior like what is being "grieved", they prepare the case for discipline. They also review the persons involved for past discipline, prior offenses, and previous issues. They then review the notes and evaluations of the manager or supervisory chain. They then, and only then, when discipline has been decided upon as a path, speak to the accused, with a union rep present. The person is interviewed, or "interrogated" as the manual writes it, to discern their story.

Then all information is accumulated and discipline is decided as yes or no. They then, based off previous similar cases and past history, estimate type and scope of discipline. This all is compiled in a disciplinary report, which, if the person decides to fight the discipline, is given to an arbitrator, in triplicate. The arbitrator then goes over the ENTIRE process again, which usually takes 4-6 months, unless fast tracked (NEVER HAPPENS, Arbs are paid by the hour) and the Arbitrator hands down a decision, and in that decision he or she says two things. Discipline is the correct path, or incorrect, and the proposed punishment is fair. If it is unfair, they can alter the scope, but not the type.

tl:dr - Sounds alot like 1. Your friend had a history of this type of behavior, well documented and well established, and 2. he made a REALLY shitty case for himself to management.

 

[Darius Brogan]

EDIT: Oh yes, just for the record, He didn't 'leave anything out' of his story, and I didn't 'Miss anything' because I was there. Right there, in person. When she went off her rocker and decided she was going to sue. If I hadn't been tthere, I wouldn't have bothered to say anything.

Either you left out an extremely large portion of this story or it is all a load of bullshit you made up for some stupid reason. I dont really care which it is or even why you would bother writing something as stupid as that.

For the umpteenth time: I don't care if you believe me or not, it's still true.

I see no reason to lie in real life, so why is the internet any different?

 

[Gorrila_thinktank]

I was going to post something profound and strongly worded, some type of essay. I was actually writing it.

Now I?m cleaning the snot from nose. Fuck.

I don?t like to cry and I?m glad this is the internet so none of you can see me right now.

OP? I?m sorry to see your friend hurt like that. I?ve got a Cousin who lost his house to his ex-girlfriend and her daughter-from-another-marriage. He?s angry and hurt, caught somewhere between wanting to be the ?bigger man? wanting justice that the courts won?t give him and wanting to go and get some justice on his own. He?s so wrapped up in his pain he can?t see anything else. So now he?s an alcoholic.

Dude, what can I say? It seems that gentleness is leaving the world wholesale.

In the west chicks are rising into positions of power. It?s because of technology. And honestly the world will be different in 20 years. What we need is for women to recognize their current and expanding social and political power and make a broad social stigma that values gentleness in these areas of power. Just like we need Bros to see their physical power as facet of their existence and self regulate by using a principle of gentleness.

Honestly I don?t think we can change our current generation. I?d like to, I hope for it, but realistically I don?t think it?s going to happen. So for me, I?m going to raise my sons to be fair and my daughters to be gallant. I?m going to love each and every one of them and hold them to a high standard of morality, and love when they fail because they tried hard.

Peace, got to go wash my face before class. Love you'all.

 

[CentralScrtnzr]

This sounds like a job for anon, if what op says is correct. ***** deserves to lose everything.

 

[Darius Brogan]

I would like to know your thoughts on the subject, fellow Escapists.

EDIT: Oh yes, just for the record, He didn't 'leave anything out' of his story, and I didn't 'Miss anything' because I was there. Right there, in person. When she went off her rocker and decided she was going to sue. If I hadn't been tthere, I wouldn't have bothered to say anything.

Wow. Well. Hmm.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to side with the people calling foul on this story. I don't know if it's because you're showing profound editorial bias on behalf of your friend, or if it's an outright fabrication, or if you're just not good at expressing yourself. Whatever the cause, my horseshit detectors are going off like crazy. And it's not even confirmation bias, I'm plenty willing to believe that a sexual harassment case ended up as guilty until proven innocent.

But if we're to take this hypothetical situation you've presented us with at face value, the one in which a bat-shit crazy lady with no clear motivations falsely accuses your completely innocent and upstanding friend of a mild infraction, at which point he is railroaded by a presumably corrupt institution and has his life destroyed with no opportunity for appeal or recourse, then...what do I think? I think that's pretty bad! And surprising! And bad!

Well, there are a number of posts addressing the situation to which the validity of my statements is being called into question, and on those posts, you'll see something like this: I don't care if you believe me, it's true. I see no reason to lie.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Well, there are a number of posts addressing the situation to which the validity of my statements is being called into question, and on those posts, you'll see something like this: I don't care if you believe me, it's true. I see no reason to lie.

I think it's a given that you don't care whether or not people believe you. If you did, you would've presented us with a less fantastical narrative.

 

[Thaluikhain]

[I pointed out a double standard that, for all it's weight against women, is somehow MORE weighted against men.

If a guy does anything anybody on the PLANET doesn't think is macho, he gets belittled and his masculinity is pulled into question.

My old boss actually called me a girl for saying 'Ouch' when I sliced my finger open on a jagged strip of sheet-steel. <Situations like that and worse are so common these days that very few people notice or care anymore.

Yeah, if a guy doesn't seem tough enough, his masculinity will be questioned and he'll be said to be less. That is, he'll be said to be too female.

Equating weakness with feminity might not be much fun for the men, but it's obviously worse for the women.

Yes, such things are common and people don't care, despite the best efforts of feminists who aren't just there to take away people's toys.

 

[Mau95]

See it's things exactly like this that when I'm called a sexist I can happily say.
Damn-well better than being a feminist - at least I believe in equal rights.

We USED to live in a society where women got no respect, and men were meant to treat them with extra care because they were delicate.
Now we need to treat them with even more care AND respect. If you want respect - EARN it! I don't decide to randomly give out respect - but they will take it personally when I say I don't.

I mean god if you even dare say you don't respect any random female they'll call it sexism - and yet they expect me to meet someone and instantaneously respect them BECAUSE of their gender?
Everyone else works for it - but you seem to need to take even more care of a woman - the fact that (some - not all) like kids or you're automatically being a pervert makes you think that really, some people aren't just too sensitive - but really need to get over it.

Feminists are right on one thing though - women do not have equal rights.
They have many... MANY more.

I'm glad not all women in our society are like this - or really the general population would stop growing in all first-world country's....

It is very, very gradually in a slow manner diminishing in I believe Europe and Japan.

 

[peruvianskys]

I'm sorry about what happened to your friend. No modifiers on that.

But for every man who loses his job due to a false claim, ten men sexually harass at the workplace and face no repercussions. For ever man who gets thrown in jail for a false rape claim, one hundred men rape and then go free. For every man who loses his kids in a divorce, ten beat their wives to death before she even has the chance to speak to a lawyer.

It's always wrong when someone suffers for something they didn't do, but cases like this are exceptional because the opposite is so common. If you take a wide view of our society, there's no way a man can say he has it harder unless he is choking on his own male privilege. And this is coming from a man who has no shame whatsoever in being male. I don't hate my gender. I don't wish I was a woman. I simply have an honest view of the way the world works, and sadly a fundamental facet of that is the subjugation and marginalization of women throughout every strata of our society.

If we had a thread made every time the opposite of this incident happened, i.e. where a woman was sexually harassed, made a claim, and had it dismissed or straight-up ignored, then the forums would be flooded. Men don't have to deal with sexism every day of their lives, so when they do encounter it, they seem so shocked and indignant. Truth is, every once-in-a-lifetime complaint I see here from men happens daily to most women.

Suck it the fuck up.

 

[Darius Brogan]

To be honest, I was speaking in more general terms, not just about this thread.

I'm not sure where you're going to with the `if a guy does something unmacho` thing. Men and women both have to deal with being punished for disobeying gender stereotypes. Okay, a dude called you a girl.
I've been cornered, called a lesbian and threatened for not acting womanly enough.
If I speak on games, I cant even repeat the shit that gets said.

Sometimes it sucks to be everybody.

I'm not sure which argument `isnt there`? That women are discriminated in this community?
They are.

I dont see myself as a victim of anything, its just something that bugs me, and I can't pretend it isn't there. Again, its not always, just enough times to make my brain explode.

I can understand where you're coming from, but you did make yourself a victim by saying you had to defend your gender, when there was no attack on women in the first place.

And my boss calling me a girl is is simply the more recent of a long string of incidents I've dealt with.

For my entire high-school career, I lived with almost everybody assuming I was gay, because I don't hunt women.
My best friends girlfriend called me a fucking pussy because I got in-between her and him while they were fighting, and she kicked my in the nuts so hard I actually couldn't breath for a minute.
I almost got expelled from middle school for grabbing the wrist of a girl who was trying to claw my eyes out (Figuratively speaking) but she was still viciously attacking my face.

The fact that sexism towards women gets so much face-time, while sexism towards men is on a back-burner because it's un-manly to care about it, is just sickening.

As for the video-game stigma, I can say this: Ignore them. It's what I did all through High-School, and that was in person.

 

[Darius Brogan]

Well, there are a number of posts addressing the situation to which the validity of my statements is being called into question, and on those posts, you'll see something like this: I don't care if you believe me, it's true. I see no reason to lie.

I think it's a given that you don't care whether or not people believe you. If you did, you would've presented us with a less fantastical narrative.

Yeah, well the truth is stranger than fiction.

I'm not exaggerating when I say she started yelling, and didn't stop for five minutes, when the boss left his meeting to see what was going on.

Call it what you will, think of me what you will, none of it is important to me.

 

[Darius Brogan]

[I pointed out a double standard that, for all it's weight against women, is somehow MORE weighted against men.

If a guy does anything anybody on the PLANET doesn't think is macho, he gets belittled and his masculinity is pulled into question.

My old boss actually called me a girl for saying 'Ouch' when I sliced my finger open on a jagged strip of sheet-steel. <Situations like that and worse are so common these days that very few people notice or care anymore.

Yeah, if a guy doesn't seem tough enough, his masculinity will be questioned and he'll be said to be less. That is, he'll be said to be too female.

Equating weakness with feminity might not be much fun for the men, but it's obviously worse for the women.

Yes, such things are common and people don't care, despite the best efforts of feminists who aren't just there to take away people's toys.

How is it worse for women?

When a woman becomes strong and independent, she's risen above her stigma of weakness, and she can take pride in that face, even though many sexist pricks will still think little of her.

If a man DOESN'T become strong, independent, manly, macho, or whatever, he's viewed as a weakling, a pansy, gay, or any number of retarded little groups and epithets pinned on a man not acting the way a man should.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Call it what you will, think of me what you will, none of it is important to me.

I would like to know your thoughts on the subject, fellow Escapists.

I would suggest, in the future, when the opinions of others are so completely unimportant to you, you cease to ask for them on internet forums.

 

[Darius Brogan]

Call it what you will, think of me what you will, none of it is important to me.

I would like to know your thoughts on the subject, fellow Escapists.

I would suggest, in the future, when the opinions of others are so completely unimportant to you, you cease to ask for them on internet forums.

I wanted to know your thoughts on the subject.

In what way does that imply that they're important to me?

 

[The Funslinger]

To anyone who thinks that the gender divisions are equal, look at the TV Tropes page linked below. Nearly all of the male examples are either bodily or psychologically harmful if they occur. A lot of the female examples only occur as tropes in entertainment/art works.

Link [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DoubleStandard?from=Main.DoubleStandards]

This may come off as a bald-faced-lie, but I've personally experienced almost all the Male Tropes in my life-time...

It's terrifyingly sad that I've brushed it off so often.

Oh, some of those are infuriating. The "No Guy Wants to be Chased" one particularly irritates me. My girlfriend and I got together because she saw me at a party, thought I was hot, and approached me shyly. She fancied me, and there's nothing wrong with that. It was liberating, I'll tell you.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I wanted to know your thoughts on the subject.

In what way does that imply that they're important to me?

There are degrees of importance. The use of the word "want" implies a degree of importance.

Regardless, we are bickering over semantics. You asked for opinions, you got opinions. You don't care that I think you're a fabulist, and I don't care if you are a fabulist. I just think it's funny, that's all.

 

[Phasmal]

Snip.

If a woman becomes strong and independant, she's frosty, frigid, she's failing her children by working, she's emasculating her husband by out-earning him.

Sometimes it sucks to be everyone.