SEXISM! What's with the standards?
- Thread starter Darius Brogan
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Meh, I don't see things as a strict hierarchy. I see things as roles that certain people are forced or expected to adhere to. It sucks to be a WHM (shortened) because you are forced to adhere to something you may not be. I am not very masculine. I am not fond of fighting. I hate sports. I don't want to work in business. I'm very emotional. I am somewhat bisexual (emphasis on the somewhat) and not ashamed to admit that some men are quite handsome. I like giving hugs. I am absurdly affectionate. These are all things that as a WHM I am not supposed to do that limit my ability to be myself. Objectively it may not seem that bad, but I still see it as a problem. Also, those who ruled within certain geographic locations have been WHM, while the vast majority of WHM have not been rulers. And I dare you to be a WHM in certain urban areas today and try to boss people around. Not the whole city, just a specific lower-class neighborhood.irishda said:
We can all dream I suppose. I certainly do at least.s0p0g said:sorry man, didn't get here earlier xDRevnak said:
let's just hope that both women like those mentioned, as well as sexual offenders (both men and women - what? yes, it goes both ways, unfortunately), won't a problem anymore, someday
Not really. Honestly, I hate it when women call sexual harassment for stuff like that. It makes the rest of us look bad. It's the same with women who have sex with a guy then claim he raped her because she regrets it. Some women are fucking psychos and they make a bad case for the rest of the sex when we actually have a legitimate claim.DevilWithaHalo said:
Yeah, I wasn't that much of a fan of his even before he decided it'd be fun to tell rape victims he hopes they drown in rape semen.Revnak said:
How can you expect someone to admit they're doing it wrong when you haven't told them how to do it right. You were being needlessly obtuse throughout all your earlier comments.Mortai Gravesend said:
Also, back to the personal experience thing, one does not have to conduct massive studies to make judgments about society. There are many things we can know about society just by spending a moment actually thinking about things. It really isn't that difficult to make judgments about society. Nobody did any studies to conclude the existence of labeling theory, but it explains so much and fits so well that we use it all the time today. Things like norms and values were understood to exist not because they were proven to through a scientific study, but because they so obviously did. In fact, most norms and values can validly be understood through personal experience alone. I think personal experience can be valid when it comes to understanding society, it just isn't the most valid way to understand it.
Didn't need to watch more than one of his videos to find out he'd eventually make a fool of himself with something like that. Obvious moron is obvious.thaluikhain said:
While I admit that is an unpleasant story I can assure you that for every one example of that happening there are at least three where a woman has been sexually harrassed and will never recieve compensation nor will her harrasser ever get punished. Just like how very few rapes ever actually go so much as reported, fewer then that eve get to court and fewer of those ever result in imprisoning.
In fact a woman who gets raped or harrassed sexually is more often then not going to be accused of lying or essentially told that she brought it on herself for being slutty. Their names get dragged through the dirt and their reputation gets soiled. That's why I hate it when people try to argue that 'oh women stage rapes all the time, it's a way they have power over men' because like, seriously?
They are going to get their name dragged through the dirt, their reputation permenantly damaged and are going to feel the shame and burden of it everywhere they go. I can't really think of that many people who would intentionally put themselves through that for petty revenge.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen but honestly I can't see a reason to believe it's anywhere near the epidemic levels that the MRA, Spearhead and False Rape Society (or as I call them the Misogyny Justice League) would have you believe.
I guess what I'm saying is not to talk down what happened here OP but you seem to be saying that what happened is a typical response, in reality it really isn't or at least there is an equal chance of a woman actually being sexually harrassed in a major way but the person who did it never getting so much as a slap on the wrist.
I think you do bring up some valid points, mind, but in general I don't think we are really at the point where us males are the oppressed ones.
Yes he's totally a fair and justified person to ever talk about things like gender politics and sexism and women's rights. My god I can't believe people still quote or reference this insurmountible misogynist shithead.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/02/08/the-not-so-amazing-atheist-self-immolates/
*was actually a man who had been raped by a woman.
I also like how he doesn't mention that on the facebook fan page in question for every one comment by a woman calling it 'empowering' there were like ten comments by men saying how awesome it was and wishing it would happen to them. Or that apart from the one, albeit awful, example on video he's found there really aren't that many others and the one in question was still met with vicious hostility and backlash by male and female members of the public. It would be valid if a shitstorm of some kind didn't appear, but a controversy most certainly did rise. Just like it would if the genders are reversed.
Frankly unless he's willing to trade places with the girl from Romania who got kidnapped and sold off as a sex worker in the U.K for a few years or the High School Cheerleader who got expelled from the cheerleading squad and forced to pay a compensation for not clapping the guy who raped her, or the many female writers and bloggers who constantly recieve graphic rape and death threats (complete with leaving their home addresses in the threats) whenever they dare question certain societal things resulting them being forced to move house, he has no fucking right to talk about how he can't take feminism seriously.
No one should take him seriously.
God I should stop now before I lose my mind but the point is he is a disgusting loathsome little turd of a human being. Once I would have just called him a fucking idiot who does no research on the topics he talks about and then angrily shouts out his arguments like a chimp while also offering up rip offs and scams claiming that he's making new sites.
But after that whole Reddit issue I have to consider him much worse. The most loathsome and gross little creep I've ever seen on the internet. I don't want to see him hurt or dead for saying it, what I want is his reputation permenantly scarred and that maybe people will stop using him as a bloody source on topics he clearly knows nothing about.
If you want to argue against feminism or debate issues of sexism towards men, fine. Just don't use this idiot, please.
In fact a woman who gets raped or harrassed sexually is more often then not going to be accused of lying or essentially told that she brought it on herself for being slutty. Their names get dragged through the dirt and their reputation gets soiled. That's why I hate it when people try to argue that 'oh women stage rapes all the time, it's a way they have power over men' because like, seriously?
They are going to get their name dragged through the dirt, their reputation permenantly damaged and are going to feel the shame and burden of it everywhere they go. I can't really think of that many people who would intentionally put themselves through that for petty revenge.
I'm not saying it doesn't happen but honestly I can't see a reason to believe it's anywhere near the epidemic levels that the MRA, Spearhead and False Rape Society (or as I call them the Misogyny Justice League) would have you believe.
I guess what I'm saying is not to talk down what happened here OP but you seem to be saying that what happened is a typical response, in reality it really isn't or at least there is an equal chance of a woman actually being sexually harrassed in a major way but the person who did it never getting so much as a slap on the wrist.
I think you do bring up some valid points, mind, but in general I don't think we are really at the point where us males are the oppressed ones.
Ahhh yes, the guy who told a rape victim that she deserved it, that the guy who raped her should get a medal and that she should drown in 'rape semen' and then ended by demanding that she relive the trauma of the rape because she* dared to argue with him on Reddit.s0p0g said:
Yes he's totally a fair and justified person to ever talk about things like gender politics and sexism and women's rights. My god I can't believe people still quote or reference this insurmountible misogynist shithead.
http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2012/02/08/the-not-so-amazing-atheist-self-immolates/
*was actually a man who had been raped by a woman.
I also like how he doesn't mention that on the facebook fan page in question for every one comment by a woman calling it 'empowering' there were like ten comments by men saying how awesome it was and wishing it would happen to them. Or that apart from the one, albeit awful, example on video he's found there really aren't that many others and the one in question was still met with vicious hostility and backlash by male and female members of the public. It would be valid if a shitstorm of some kind didn't appear, but a controversy most certainly did rise. Just like it would if the genders are reversed.
Frankly unless he's willing to trade places with the girl from Romania who got kidnapped and sold off as a sex worker in the U.K for a few years or the High School Cheerleader who got expelled from the cheerleading squad and forced to pay a compensation for not clapping the guy who raped her, or the many female writers and bloggers who constantly recieve graphic rape and death threats (complete with leaving their home addresses in the threats) whenever they dare question certain societal things resulting them being forced to move house, he has no fucking right to talk about how he can't take feminism seriously.
No one should take him seriously.
God I should stop now before I lose my mind but the point is he is a disgusting loathsome little turd of a human being. Once I would have just called him a fucking idiot who does no research on the topics he talks about and then angrily shouts out his arguments like a chimp while also offering up rip offs and scams claiming that he's making new sites.
But after that whole Reddit issue I have to consider him much worse. The most loathsome and gross little creep I've ever seen on the internet. I don't want to see him hurt or dead for saying it, what I want is his reputation permenantly scarred and that maybe people will stop using him as a bloody source on topics he clearly knows nothing about.
If you want to argue against feminism or debate issues of sexism towards men, fine. Just don't use this idiot, please.
I am ethically obligated to inform you that the same guy who made that video also said the following to a rape survivor on reddit:s0p0g said:
"Yeah. Well, you deserved it. So, fuck you. I hope it happens again soon. I'm tired of being treated like shit by you mean little cunts and then you using your rape as an excuse. Fuck you. I think we should give the guy who raped you a medal. I hope you fucking drown in rape semen, you ugly, mean-spirited cow. Actually, I don't believe you were ever raped! What man would be tasteless enough to stick his dick into a human cesspool like you? Nice gif of a turd going into my mouth. Is that kind of like the way that rapists dick went in your pussy? Or did he use your asshole? Or was it both? Maybe you should think about it really hard for the next few hours. Relive it as much as possible. You know? Try to recall: was it my pussy or my ass?"
Also, a couple points for people who are still bothering to read new posts here:
1) You're not doing your side (or yourself, or anyone else) any favors by being hostile and adversarial about everything. Make your point and then move the fuck on, like a civilized adult. Sometimes I wish I could be Moderator Of The Internet so I could enforce this rule everywhere, but no doubt I'd receive complaints from people saying that I'm oppressing their right to act like a four-year-old throwing a tantrum.
2) No one would deny that there are indeed some men who have been treated unfairly by women (or by the system), and it's important to recognize that feminists are not cheering when this happens. Unless you're pulling the extremist feminists and basing everything upon them -- and they're just about as representative of mainstream feminism as the Westboro Baptist Church is of Christianity -- feminists are not working to oppress men.
You see, the question that they're primarily interested in is not "How are women being treated unfairly by men?" or "how are men being treated unfairly by women?", but rather, "How do gender stereotypes (or gender itself, as a construct) create a culture in which both genders are treated unfairly, and what can we do about it?"
Quoted for truth.thaluikhain said:
After women were subjected to essentially patriarchal rule for hundreds of years and only very recently had the plea for equality taken seriously, it's unsurprising that many people just assume that in a confrontation between a man and a woman that the man is in the wrong. It's not at all the right attitude because, unfortunately, far too many women seem to know this (or at least subconsciously recognise with)and realise they can get away with things that men simply cannot do. Hell, if I see a man and a woman in a fight on the street, I'd very likely imagine the man to be in the wrong if it wasn't for the fact that my male friend was the victim of domestic abuse.
It's a big cultural problem, and one we are not going to get around by pointing fingers at each side. Men's treatment of women (in general) is just as much the cause for 'psycho women' as the behaviour of (as a sweeping statement) the crazy women themselves. We need to stop all this 'don't hit a woman' and 'men can't cry' crap, and soon. I'm sick of being told by women to 'go punch him in the face' and told by men 'what are you getting upset about?'
Equality is hard to actually achieve, not just in sexism. The reason why it's an issue wich needs to be adressed isn't so much that Women on average suffer, it's that the whole goddamn system makes as much sense as previous systems of discrimination.
I find it strange that Women CANNOT legally rape a man, since rape is only "official" when the offender penetrates the victim, which isn't entirely the case when a woman ties you up and f*cks the living shit out of you
Ultimately I think this comes down to society?s perception of both sexes, as time goes on society will (hopefully) adapt. I think this really stems from the opinion that all men want is sex. It?s a myth that is perpetuated by both men and women. Though sex is a central theme of the human contusion it should not be seen as a man's sole desire. When this misconception is rectified great leaps in equality for BOTH sexes can be made. to be fair the empowerment of women is not in fact the poor treatment of a man, the empowerment of women (which to be fair is 99%) do is act like a good person. Same goes for men.
Some of the things that you have mentioned there are true under certain circumstances, but domestic violence should not be there. Domestic violence at least here in Australia is perpetrated by men in at least 90% of the cases. It is a ridiculously skewed number, but it is completely true. While it may be possible that some men just don't report the incidences to the authorities, women are still the main victims here. Never should there be any sort of doubt on the topic and you should rightly remove it from future argumentsMatthew94 said:
Anecdotal as it is, with the exception of one couple, I've only ever seen women hit men. The difference is none of the men reported it, while the woman who was hit did report it. I myself have been hit by three different women in the past, and each one I grabbed and restrained for doing it. Every single one reacted as if it was the first time it had happened to them before.mrhappy1489 said:
This is in no way saying that I stand as some definite proof on the subject, but you can't simply dismiss the an argument with 'there should be no doubt' on something as private as domestic violence. The men I've seen who have tried to talk about the fact that their girlfriend/finance/whatever is hitting them got opening mocked or ignored, and when one of them retaliated by grabbing his girlfriend's arm, he lost a significant amount of his friends and then his male friends who were accustomed to seeing his girlfriend beat him on a regular basis. It wasn't a secret, and yet he was still more in the wrong than her.
I'm just saying, there is a lot of doubt when it comes to this subject, in some people's minds.