Sexuality in gaming, your stance?

[King Zeal]

Oppression does not rely on intent. Simply giving an audience "what they want" can still easily be a form of oppression, especially when it becomes systemic. There IS a such thing as an oppressive majority.

You...aren't explaining yourself very well. Who is losing out by having a big-breasted woman in your game?

Basically, it's a stereotype of women which reinforces a sexist viewpoint of them. It's portraying women in a manner that is primarily for the enjoyment of a social majority (men). Consequently, it becomes harder and harder to portray women as anything OTHER than this. See, for example, industry execs that won't even allow a female protagonist in a game at all if she isn't eye candy or otherwise conforming to heteronormativity.

As Silvanus, says, it is an aggregate stereotype that has more to do with industry trends than a solitary example.

 

[gamernerdtg2]

I don't play games for sex. Soul Calibur/Blade/etc is a good game outside of the characters with huge breasts. Dead or Alive is basically soft porn. Queens Blade is cartoon soft porn.

Considering that visuals are only one aspect of gaming, I really spend most of my time playing more than watching. You can play a character with huge breasts, but you'd be terrible at the game if that's all you payed attention to.

Also, you (OP) like skinny women. That's cool because almost any woman can be objectified, or made to look sexy. I like women with curves. I'd take Ivy over that skinny Japanese chick in a hot second. That doesn't mean that playing a skinny woman (like Jade from BG&E) makes the game experience bad for me.

What role does sexuality play in gaming for me? Very little. Pictures are nice. Gameplay is always better.

So far, sex and gaming don't really mix.

Games that are "about" the sex are super boring. Super. Boring.

 

[Belaam]

Like a few others, I'm having a few issues with the OP seeming to equate "sexuality" with skimpy clothing.

I have zero problem with sexuality in games. In fact, it often seems odd when it is lacking. Big RPG with up to a dozen possible party members and the only character with any sort of a sex drive is the protagonist? Odd. I am absolutely okay with all characters having an interest in sex.

I find the fact that the vast majority of female characters are presented as prizes/visual stimuli for male characters over character with their own sex drives as highly problematic.

 

[white_wolf]

I don't like it if she (and lets face it 9/10 times its a she) is the sole person in the game boss, friend, hero, npc, party member that is sexulized unless we are at a strip club and she is a stripper or we're at the beach and she's dressed for that occasion. Now if its the whole team, group, or theme of the game to have all cast be sexulized or under-dressed for the occasion, weather, or occupation then its fine.

For instance Prince of Persia Warrior Within is not ok the fem boss is deliberately and blatantly a sexual tease for the sole purpose of this. The cast of Guilty Gear is fine the majority of them are in some way sexulized or poorly dressed for their occupation.

I don't think Guilty Gear is a good example or even the worst of it's genre. every single character in Guilty gear is over-stylized into sillyness.

Looking at the characters again the only one that seems under-dressed is Dizzy. The rest at most has shoulder-free clothes.

The males actually have less clothing on average

EDIT: Never mind, i misread your post

It's ok but the game has many sexulized characters and it was their aim in the first place which is why I say I'm fine with it nearly everyone across the board has something over the series we have Ino her dress, Dizzy obvious, Anji blatant pandering, Testament his outfit is unusual and can be seen as sexy for goths but he gets in here because of a power push that literately makes him naked, Baiken cleavage, Justice though a she has a very noticeable part that isn't, Slayer the cut and fit of his clothing is suggestive, Testament's companion she's naked and their kill occurs on a bed, Johnny a lady killer and made to appeal as such, Zappa and his ghost, and of course way more its not just less clothing that makes them this way its only the most obvious there is also the subtle like how the clothing is cut and fits their form that can also convey the intent as well. I could've easily pulled out the tired trope of DOA or bashed any number of PC game with girls who wear breast straps into battle but I decided to use a bit of variety.

 

[DarthSka]

Sexualization isn't really something that puts me off from a game as long as the gameplay is good. It's the same way I view a story in a game. Now, if the game ends up having good gameplay AND good characters, then I'll like that game all the more, so I'm definitely all for having better female characters in games, but it's not something that's going to make me shut it off. Plus, I'd be lying if I said I didn't like seeing an Ivy-like character, but I also enjoy Lightning-like characters too.

A lot of the sexualised characters are females and these characters are designed to pander to a male audience. Game companies and devs have a tendency to leave the female gaming audience out despite women making up a 47% part of the gaming sphere at the consumer level.

The problem with that is looking at video game consumers as one audience. Though there might be a 53/47 split overall, that number can vary for different genres or games. Just like with any media, there are specific audiences within that larger audience. I watch movies, but I don't watch romantic comedies or Saw-like horror movies. I read books, but I don't read autobiographies, romance, or mystery novels. I play video games, but I don't play puzzle, racing, sport, or RTS games. So if a game or genre has captured a specific audience, they're likely going to continue to make a product with that audience in mind.

 

[King Zeal]

The problem with that is looking at video game consumers as one audience. Though there might be a 53/47 split overall, that number can vary for different genres or games. Just like with any media, there are specific audiences within that larger audience. I watch movies, but I don't watch romantic comedies or Saw-like horror movies. I read books, but I don't read autobiographies, romance, or mystery novels. I play video games, but I don't play puzzle, racing, sport, or RTS games. So if a game or genre has captured a specific audience, they're likely going to continue to make a product with that audience in mind.

What you describe is another problematic thing in the various media--industry: a reinforced gender binary. There's no reason a particular genre can be said to inherently be "for" a certain gender or sexuality. Girls like power fantasy as much as everyone else, but there's not much pure girl power fantasy in the industry. Even stuff like Bayonetta or Lollipop Chainsaw are more about a particular fetish than it is being a female power fantasy.

To all the people who define sexualization as the following "Character exists only as object of sexual desire", how many of these characters are there, really. Characters that really serve no more purpose than to look pretty?
The strippers in the Duke Nukem games ring a bell, but what else is there?

Keep in mind that characters that do things in games are automatically scrapped from the list, because they do have additional purposes.

I personally would argue that this isn't accurate. While I agree with you that there are few characters that exist ''solely'' as sexual fantasy and have no other qualities, what you are implying has a problem.

Take, for example, Ivy. While she is not "ONLY" a sex object, being a sex object is the overarching most important part of her character. We can guess that much because she's one of the few female characters to survive the timeskip between SCIV and SCV, and the plot goes out of its way to assure us that she hasn't aged in all that time. The same thing is true of Nina and Anna Williams in Tekken; most other female characters before the decade-or-so-long timeskip in both series were either replaced by a Younger and Prettier Version 2.0, or were just written out of the story.

The sole exception I can think of being Hildegard of Soulcalibur V, but she was a character that Namco themselves said they created specifically to say "Hey look, a character that ISN'T a stereotype."

 

[Proto Taco]

I love sexuality in games. What I don't like is male-gaze porn in games.

 

[King Zeal]

They're not reinforcing shit. Group of people buys shit in bulk in comparison to another group. Like the teen market, hispanic, blacks, asian, male, female, action, romance, thriller, mobile, and so on and so forth. Not everyone share the same interest nor do people need to share the same interest. People can like different shit, and some things don't have to appeal to everyone.

Again, not talking about "everything". But certainly more than what's been given. Even accounting for different tastes and markets, media still uses stereotyping.

If anything, it's the current industry that's doing what you accuse, by making a broad assumption that this is what its audience "wants". If it were really about different tastes, there would be no problem with more AAA titles using different portrayals of genders and sexualities.

Eh. The arts have been portraying people in an unrealistically attractive fashion since the dawn of time. Didn't hear anyone get pissy then so why start now?

For one reason, this is the first time in history that you wouldn't get stoned, burned, hung, or otherwise killed for voicing an opinion. Even 50 years ago, McCarthyism would get you branded a communist if you dared go against the American ideal of what was portrayed in media. Google "Hollywood Blacklist", for example.

 

[Gamer87]

I like sexy characters. My definition of sexy is unfortunately not the same as people who make games. To me a sexy character has an interesting, believable and well-written personality. Looks come second.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I honestly don't give a shit anymore. But I will say that I would prefer to just play a fighting game without having an erection whenever I fight against Sakura in Super Street Fighter IV.

 

[King Zeal]

You mean AAA having different genres such as fighting, horror, third person shooter, first person shooter, action, platformer, wrpg, jrpg, puzzles, and adventure. Because there more to taste than gender and sex.

No, since we're talking about sexuality here, I focused on the topic at hand. Because the basis of the criticism is that, regardless of the genre, sexualization and gender conformity are systemic across the board. There are few exceptions, and even fewer that aren't themselves stereotypes in some way.

 

[mezorin]

Sexualization does not always equal objectification, but the two often go hand in hand, especially in the gaming world. The objectification of women (ie existing just to make the guy in game or on the other side of the screen happy) is the real problem here, not so much that women look too perfect in game. Also, every in game major women characters basically being a super model 99% of the time is what I think people have a problem with when it comes to sexualization; its that its the default mode as opposed to the exception. I'd have no problem with sexuality if there was a bit more balance in it, both in variety for an audience, and actually writting a character that is more than the sum of her sexual characteristics. It will be a note worthy day in gaming when many women characters out there are well written "Average Janes" as opposed to super models.

Plus, the world needs more Garens, Nathan Drakes, and Dantes, why should guys have all the fun? There is no need to ban anything, just simply create a wider variety of stuff for all audiences.

 

[Poppy JR.]

I think that if it is handled in a way that doesn't seem overbearing, it can have a completely valid place. Some games I don't mind it in are games like Mortal Kombat, Bayonetta, or practically every other game where the focus is sexuality.

 

[Yuuki]

I honestly don't give a shit anymore. But I will say that I would prefer to just play a fighting game without having an erection whenever I fight against Sakura in Super Street Fighter IV.

But...Sakura is adorable :S not in the "ooh so sexy" sense, just child-like adorable. Unless schoolgirl outfits are your fetish (not mine personally)

Spoiler

Plus, one can't really say the outfit is out-of-place because she's always shown as someone picking fights while going (or coming) from school. The top is a bit short, but the skirt-length is definitely something you can find in some Japanese schools today.

Which only really leaves Cammy (and maybe Juri) as the true sex-appeal characters in SSFIV. That is, until Poison and Elena come along in Ultra Street Fighter IV hyuk hyuk hyuk.

 

[King Zeal]

Well, to be honest, the schoolgirl is a fetish to the Japanese like a cheerleader is to Americans.

 

[MoeMints]

They're not reinforcing shit. Group of people buys shit in bulk in comparison to another group. Like the teen market, hispanic, blacks, asian, male, female, action, romance, thriller, mobile, and so on and so forth. Not everyone share the same interest nor do people need to share the same interest. People can like different shit, and some things don't have to appeal to everyone.

Again, not talking about "everything". But certainly more than what's been given. Even accounting for different tastes and markets, media still uses stereotyping.

If anything, it's the current industry that's doing what you accuse, by making a broad assumption that this is what its audience "wants". If it were really about different tastes, there would be no problem with more AAA titles using different portrayals of genders and sexualities.

You mean AAA having different genres such as fighting, horror, third person shooter, first person shooter, action, platformer, wrpg, jrpg, puzzles, and adventure. Because there more to taste than gender and sex.

Most JRPGs, WRPGs (outside camp Bioware and Elder Scrolls), Puzzles, Adventure, Platformers, Horror, the more complex Action games, and fighters are DEFINITELY not triple A.
Heck Skullgirls is about the luckiest fighter to still be in major development for half a decade and still have fans.

Which is why I'm confused on what people are even trying to argue here. Apparently, zero people in this thread even played DOA and SC's fifth games because everyone thinks Xtreme 2 and Ivy's sling armor are still relevant.

I don't know, that Kill La Kill could easily be grasping at justification straws. "Girl gets put in sexy outfit against her will and has to deal with male gaze because of it" isn't exactly a unique plot. Especially in anime, where it's almost a default reaction.

In short, it's difficult to say something is "exploring" a theme when it plays the stereotypes associated with that theme unironically straight.

it is Trigger who worked on Gurren Laggon and Panty and Stocking so there is a bit of a brain in it though it is really only explicitly seen in the third episode villain speech (seriously, Satsuki makes her big speech and it does make an interesting point though I will acknowledge how people can be turned off before it). Regardless, Japan has different standards of sexuality so it's difficult to talk and the show, in my sole biased opinion, make it up for interesting characters, fun action, and unique setting

It's definitely possible for a work to "make up for" blatant fanservice with other merits. I was only pointing out that this shouldn't stop us from examining it.

Believe me, I am cynical and bitter about anime so I analyze it for cultural connections and connotations all the time. Analysis does not hurt a show but improves it

A lot of it is actually through the inspiration of Go Nagai and works he's related to.
TTGL is straight up Getter Robo rebooted with a Saturday Morning Cartoon (which it was) premise.
The man is both shameless and boundless, even making his own material like go everything from a dark and grim mystery with twists and turns, to a superheroine completely in the buff.
A middleground called Cutey Honey is actually a major part in creating both the sexualized but fun heroine and the magical (transforming) girl genre. If you see Gainax's own version, Re: Cutey Honey, you'll see a lot more inspiration in that instead of TTGL like everyone freaking insist. Heck, Honey herself is pretty much Mako and Ryuuko combined.