Sexuality in Mass Effect

[Mother Yeti]

And FYI by saying, "It's weird enough that these aliens are sexually attracted to humans." You are saying that it is weird for a male to be attracted to another male.

Give me a break. Weak sauce, man, weak sauce.

Not really, that was pretty valid, and sloughing it off as you are doesn't lend itself well. Saying that one sexual attraction is weird implies weirdness in another attraction.

I "sloughed it off" because it was so foolish, so insulting of both our intelligences, that it didn't deserve further comment.

Actually, you know what? You got me. I, a gay person, am saying that it's weird for two men to be attracted to each other. That's totally what I meant. I am slain by your logic. Time to die.

 

[Mother Yeti]

Edit: Also who cares? does it really matter what game developers do with their game? lastly whats with all the people trying to apply this to the outside world all the original poster asked was if this was a little hypocritical.

These forums are predicated upon the notion that people care about what game developers do with their games.

 

[ethaninja]

I think it's more of a call back to the old Captain Kirk style of integrating with alien species.

I don't think Bioware are homophobes though, they just know that considering the controversy about the first one, that including the option to be an active homosexual male in that would lead to a total furore, such is the double standards of the knee-jerk crowd in the mainstream media.

Also, I could imagine a situation where they might even face legal action by backwards parents, concerned that their child is playing 'This sick filth' as they would most probably call it.

I think they're just erring on the side of caution, they don't want any more bad rep for the series.

Agreed.

 

[Dorian6]

I guess it's because the majority of people who play Mass effect are straight men, regardless of Shepherd's gender. And seeing Wrex bend Shepherd over a cargo crate would be something that you would never EVER be able to unsee.

That being said, Throughout ME1 I thought that Garrus was gay, and so far, nothing has happened to disprove that belief

 

[JaredXE]

In our race same sex couples cannot produce a child together.

In the Asari race they are able to produce a child with any sex. Its not about physical contact, its about a mental connection. That right there proves that the Asari cannot be gay.

Bioware isn't homophobic, just look at dragon age. But just because the Asari have female qualities doesn't make them a female in our standards.

They just sound female, use female pronouns, look female, have a female body, etc. It is so utterly transparent as to be ridicilous. You can paint an elephant blue and call it a whale, but it is still an elephant.

Umm, transgenders can be that way. Take someone born male, snip snip, a couple pills here and there and a good wardrobe....you have someone who is 'Female', and yet can't reproduce. They look like women, use female pronouns, can sound feminine......

The Asari are a monogender...or just no gender. They mate with any gender of any species, but only Asari genetics are used in the child, so it's almost an asexual reproduction.

Yes, to us it's hot girl-on-girl action, but speech and body lumps do not a woman make.

 

[Sigel]

After a couple Mass Effect sessions, I got to thinking about the romance options. I'm sure this has occurred to others, but still.

A female Shepard can romance both sexes. You can roleplay her as straight, gay, or somewhere in between; it's totally up to the player whom she's into. A male Shepard, on the other hand, can only romance women. Even if you WANT to play a gay ManShep, you're simply not allowed.

After Dragon Age, which allowed the PC to fall just about anywhere on the sexuality spectrum, I was sort of hoping that Bioware had come to understand that their audience is not entirely male and not entirely hetero. But no, apparently not. And as a gay girl gamer, I think that really sucks.

What do you think?

Edit: Because my point seems to be flying over the heads of certain people:

I AM NOT PUSHING AN AGENDA. I AM NOT TRYING TO FORCE YOU TO LOVE GAY PEOPLE OR EVEN AGREE WITH ME. I AM NOT ASKING FOR A GAY CHARACTER TO BE SHOEHORNED INTO THE GAME FOR THE SOLE PURPOSE OF BEING GAY. I AM SIMPLY NOTING THAT WHILE THERE IS A RANGE OF SEXUALITIES POSSIBLE FOR A FEMALE CHARACTER, A MALE CHARACTER CAN ONLY BE HETEROSEXUAL, AND THAT SEEMS LIKE A STEP BACK FOR BIOWARE. I THINK THAT IS INTERESTING! IF YOU DISAGREE, THAT'S FINE, BUT PLEASE REFRAIN FROM BUILDING STRAWMEN! THANKS!

Actually I think it is interesting as well and something I have noticed while playing these games. My husband and I play the same games(Dragon Age/Mass Effect2)and I usually play female characters and my husband plays male characters. I have noticed the differences when we have compared gaming notes. I personally like having options though it seems not to be everyone's cup of tea.

 

[Mother Yeti]

In our race same sex couples cannot produce a child together.

In the Asari race they are able to produce a child with any sex. Its not about physical contact, its about a mental connection. That right there proves that the Asari cannot be gay.

Bioware isn't homophobic, just look at dragon age. But just because the Asari have female qualities doesn't make them a female in our standards.

They just sound female, use female pronouns, look female, have a female body, etc. It is so utterly transparent as to be ridicilous. You can paint an elephant blue and call it a whale, but it is still an elephant.

Umm, transgenders can be that way. Take someone born male, snip snip, a couple pills here and there and a good wardrobe....you have someone who is 'Female', and yet can't reproduce. They look like women, use female pronouns, can sound feminine......

The Asari are a monogender...or just no gender. They mate with any gender of any species, but only Asari genetics are used in the child, so it's almost an asexual reproduction.

Yes, to us it's hot girl-on-girl action, but speech and body lumps do not a woman make.

To be clear here ... you say gender, but you mean sex. Sex is biological (what's between your legs), gender is social/behavioral/cultural (what's between your ears). A transsexual is something whose gender is different from their sex. So while the asari sex is not female as we understand it, their gender (from a human standpoint) is clearly female.

This is getting a little deep, but I thought the partner's genetics were used in reproduction? That's why it's considered taboo for asari to mate with each other - nothing new is added to the gene pool by doing so.

 

[Mother Yeti]

I guess it's because the majority of people who play Mass effect are straight men, regardless of Shepherd's gender. And seeing Wrex bend Shepherd over a cargo crate would be something that you would never EVER be able to unsee.

Not only would I watch this, I would pay money and bring popcorn.

 

[Namulith]

You can have your gay male characters as soon as I can get some black male leads that aren't criminals/thugs/Ving Rhames look-alikes.

Should they have included it? Yes. Did they? No. The game is already out and there's nothing you can do about it except not play it or suck it up. If you want to see it in the next game, email Bioware.

 

[Mother Yeti]

You can have your gay male characters as soon as I can get some black male leads that aren't criminals/thugs/Ving Rhames look-alikes.

Point taken, but you can make a black Shepard. You can't make a gay Shepard.

 

[JaredXE]

To be clear here ... you say gender, but you mean sex. Sex is biological (what's between your legs), gender is social/behavioral/cultural (what's between your ears). A transsexual is something whose gender is different from their sex. So while the asari sex is not female as we understand it, their gender (from a human standpoint) is clearly female.

This is getting a little deep, but I thought the partner's genetics were used in reproduction? That's why it's considered taboo for asari to mate with each other - nothing new is added to the gene pool by doing so.

Eh, it makes more sense to me the way I said it, gender is reproductive/biological and sex/sexuality is psychological/social, but that's semantics.

No, they even have a definite conversation in ME2 where they say that an Asari only has genetic material from Asari, but that the non-bearing partner adds a genetic randomizer to the procedure, mixing up Asari traits. Which is why Asari don't have Krogan headplates or Batarian teeth or other such genes in their body, it's pure Asari.

Purebloods just don't randomize the genes, which the Asari feel is wrong and leads to stagnation.

 

[Namulith]

You can have your gay male characters as soon as I can get some black male leads that aren't criminals/thugs/Ving Rhames look-alikes.

Point taken, but you can make a black Shepard. You can't make a gay Shepard.

That looks like a weird cross between Obama and Chris Rock. Fair enough, but officially, Sheperd is white, male, and completely Hetero, so do we both lose?

 

[Mother Yeti]

You can have your gay male characters as soon as I can get some black male leads that aren't criminals/thugs/Ving Rhames look-alikes.

Point taken, but you can make a black Shepard. You can't make a gay Shepard.

That looks like a weird cross between Obama and Chris Rock. Fair enough, but officially, Sheperd is white, male, and completely Hetero, so do we both lose?

I think it's supposed to be Obama. I dunno about this "official" stuff, I know that in promotional materials Shepard is modeled on some ridiculously hot male model, but I think that might just be for convenience's sake. If I can make a bisexual female Pacific Islander Shepard (for whom I just finished a Renegade playthrough), then god damn it, I should be able to make a gay black man Shepard. This is America.

 

[Lucifron]

Why does Mass Effect need a gay character? Mass Effect is not like Dragon Age were you create your very own little avatar; Shepard shares traits between all playthroughs. He has his own "face", voice, motivations and actions. Commander Shepard is not gay.

 

[RyVal]

then they apparantly throw that away in favour of pandering to "Lesbian sex is hawt" while edging "icky gays" under the rug.

You're basing that on assumption though, you don't know that statement was their direct path. No amount of evidence you think you may find inside the game will directly unleash their true intentions unless they [Bioware] come out and say "Hey... We prefer lesbian sex over gay sex."

Again, you fail to make the distinction of "pandering".

I am not saying that BioWare themselves are homophobic. What I am saying, however, is that they are pandering to homophobia by including "hawt lesbians" and quietly shelving gays. Why have they decided to do this with Mass Effect but not, say, Jade Empire? Maybe they're aiming for the Halo market. I dunno. Whatever the reason, it is still double standards.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Bioware made both Dragon Age and ME1 and 2?

Also correct me if I'm wrong, seeing as how I never played the game, but didn't Bioware make Dragon Age with the capability of allowing the player to choose his characters' sexuality whether it be straight, gay, or lesbian?

I ask this because, Dragon Age came out before Mass Effect 2. So if I was right in saying that they allowed full control over sexuality in Dragon Age... How are they all the sudden anti-gay for trying a different approach in a later game?

Surely the fact that they already have done it, with no noticeable controversy and no damage to their sales, provides further incentive to do it in all their Role-Playing games?

As aforementioned, Mass Effect, Jade Empire and Dragon Age are as much about character building as action. BioWare styles Mass Effect as a mature, adult drama, so it just seems slightly hypocritical to simply airbrush this issue out of the picture.

Why does Mass Effect need a gay character? Mass Effect is not like Dragon Age were you create your very own little avatar; Shepard shares traits between all playthroughs. He has his own "face", voice, motivations and actions. Commander Shepard is not gay.

Because it's a Role-Playing Game. RPGs are all about having options presented to you and making your own decisions, not having your actions dictated. And Shepard most certainly does not share traits between all playthroughs. You can go from playing a black female Shepherd who was a bastion of righteousness in the original to playing a white, male Shepherd who eats kittens in lieu of Snickers in the sequel.

You can modify your face. You can modify your actions. You can modify your motivations. Hell, you can even modify your female character's sexuality - just not your male's, which is the point of contention.

ExpirituExterminatus provided a link when he said, "malformed." Ok?

It is still a slur.

If I call a black person a negro, and then provide a link to a website which claims this is a legitimate designation, that does not negate the negative connotations of the word or its intended effect. Furthermore, the link argued that homosexual's brains where more wired like the opposite sex, not "malformed".

And since everyone seems so intent on defending EE, let us just mosey on back to his first posts:

Bioware never had a section of the game where you wiped out the only gay cult in the universe although that would have been awesome

I think it is wholly justified to call his remarks homophobic - especially after his later "I don't hate gay people as long as they stay away from me" comments.

If I said "I don't hate black people, as long as they stay away from me", would you be under any doubts as to whether I was racist?

Or if I said "I don't hate Muslims, as long as they stay away from me", would it not be totally fair to condemn my comments as Islamophobic?

There is a good reason why EspirituExterminatus is the only person - despite what some people like to claim - that I have called a homophobe.

 

[Riobux]

You can have your gay male characters as soon as I can get some black male leads that aren't criminals/thugs/Ving Rhames look-alikes.

Should they have included it? Yes. Did they? No. The game is already out and there's nothing you can do about it except not play it or suck it up. If you want to see it in the next game, email Bioware.

In most create-a-character things, you can make a character who is black, asian, white and everything in between. Although I understand what you mean. The problem about video-games is it's going increasingly under the pressure of adopting stereotypes which other forms of media commonly use. Back in the mid or early (I'm not sure, it could of even been the late 80s), Legend Of Zelda featured a transvestite. She/he wasn't remotely like stereotypes would say, but a normal human being. Now days, off the top of my head, you have games like Saints Row 2 which turn cross dressing into a joke ("hey, hey, let's have a big black guy with huge muscles, with a skirt assigned to the female gender, it'll be hilarious!") and games like Call Of Duty Modern Warfare (1 and 2) which play with stereotypes so much it's crazy.

If Call Of Duty Modern Warfare series was an accurate depiction of society, Americans would be a clueless collection of idiots showing off who has the biggest gun like frat boys with brain damage. You'd have English who are intelligent and sneaky, who only end up getting killed due to Americans (considering an American company made the series, I have to laugh at this depiction). Russia would be a shit-hole where all non-middle eastern terrorists come from, complete with deserted areas, militant groups with the government don't really care about and enough soldiers in said militant groups to match the number of terrorists in Iraq or Afghanistan (where the Americans of the game are in the first one and the English are in the second one). Oh, and a Russian would ALWAYS be the big bad mastermind, one clever enough to even deceive the Russian government into going to war with America. Middle Eastern countries would also be funded by Russian militant groups and have all the AK-47s and RPGs they could ever want. If Russians are the master-minds, then the Middle Eastern countries would be the grunts.

I think, as a whole, video-gaming needs to stop with the stereotypes already. It's not exactly helping with character developments.

 

[Fappy]

I don't really get what all the fuss is about. If you want your Shepard to be gay then say he's gay. You don't need a couple dialogue trees and a "Sex" scene to tell you what your character is. Its called role playing. Bioware didn't feel like making a gay squadmate so Shepard has no dudes to bang. End of story. Its never implied what his/her sexual orientation is. Hell my main male Shepard has banged an Asari (which is asexual) and a quarian. I'm sure that is far more controversial than banging another dude.

 

[Riobux]

I don't really get what all the fuss is about. If you want your Shepard to be gay then say he's gay. You don't need a couple dialogue trees and a "Sex" scene to tell you what your character is. Its called role playing. Bioware didn't feel like making a gay squadmate so Shepard has no dudes to bang. End of story. Its never implied what his/her sexual orientation is. Hell my main male Shepard has banged an Asari (which is asexual) and a quarian. I'm sure that is far more controversial than banging another dude.

Believe me, it's not. If it had a guy being with another guy, there would be uproar from not only the Christian masses and the mothers who feel it's teaching kids the wrong things, but you'd then get the homophobic people whining about how it's not natural. Although you'll never get a decent answer of why it's not natural, just "it just is!".

 

[Fappy]

I don't really get what all the fuss is about. If you want your Shepard to be gay then say he's gay. You don't need a couple dialogue trees and a "Sex" scene to tell you what your character is. Its called role playing. Bioware didn't feel like making a gay squadmate so Shepard has no dudes to bang. End of story. Its never implied what his/her sexual orientation is. Hell my main male Shepard has banged an Asari (which is asexual) and a quarian. I'm sure that is far more controversial than banging another dude.

Believe me, it's not. If it had a guy being with another guy, there would be uproar from not only the Christian masses and the mothers who feel it's teaching kids the wrong things, but you'd then get the homophobic people whining about how it's not natural. Although you'll never get a decent answer of why it's not natural, just "it just is!".

I don't know man...

First Contact with Aliens...

10 years later we're integrating cultures....

"Hey mom meet my new girl friend she's a..."

"WTF!? She can't even give you a baby!"

Its an incredibly theoretical situation of course but I could imagine it being a huge issue... assuming we were actually attracted to said species.

Anyway I don't see what the problem with play FemShep is and getting it on with one of the dudes... (Garrus for sure... poor guy needs a break).

I play Female Shepard from time to time and I always play her as a lesbo.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Believe me, it's not. If it had a guy being with another guy, there would be uproar from not only the Christian masses and the mothers who feel it's teaching kids the wrong things, but you'd then get the homophobic people whining about how it's not natural. Although you'll never get a decent answer of why it's not natural, just "it just is!".

Jade Empire didn't, nor did Dragon Age.