Sexuality in Mass Effect

[lapan]

Isn't there the possibility that it's judt coincidence that they didn't include a male homosexual character. I myself would force a gay character into a story if i'm not sure i could write up a convincing personality, maybe they thought alike? Then there is also the possibility that they wanted/were forced to avoid controversity. Out of all these possibilities homophobia strikes me as the most farfetched one...

 

[LiquidGrape]

This conversation seems to have lost steam.
I'll just kick it back into gear with a dose of Kate Beaton:

There. Isn't that better?

 

[Withard]

Maybe they removed it after a conversation of......

"Do we put this sexual thing in the game?"
"Fuck no!!! People are looking for anything to cry about so in ME3 NO ONE will be a human and no one will have sex and no one will remotely flirt anymore!!!!! DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR!!"
"Uh yeah *pause* Just so you know I had an email today saying if they dont have the option to make a character into Pedobear they will start a thread"
*shoots self*

 

[IrrelevantTangent]

I can't be bothered to read this entire morass of gay rights in media. So I'll simply say: aliens are animals. Anything nonhuman is either an animal or artificial intelligence. To an alien, we are animals. This means Bioware has amply programmed bestiality into ME. It does surprise me, going to this extent, that no gay male scenarios are present.

Xenophilia =/= Bestiality. They're two very different things.

Since the alien races in the Mass Effect universe are, speaking theoretically, sentient and sapient, and all signs point towards 'yes', then it's xenophilia, not bestiality.

However, it could be argued having relations with a vorcha could be construed as bestiality in-game, as the vast majority of them have little intelligence and sapience to speak of.

 

[TylerC]

there is no wheelchair bound character in the game.

I take it you never spoke to Joker.

I take it you never played as Joker, I also take it that you didn't beat ME2.

 

[timus666]

I can't be bothered to read this entire morass of gay rights in media. So I'll simply say: aliens are animals. Anything nonhuman is either an animal or artificial intelligence. To an alien, we are animals. This means Bioware has amply programmed bestiality into ME. It does surprise me, going to this extent, that no gay male scenarios are present.

I think its been blown out of proportion a wee bit, not played 2 but in the first one no matter which one you "do" its the same two seconds of bare bum just a different colour

 

[Mother Yeti]

there is no wheelchair bound character in the game.

I take it you never spoke to Joker.

I take it you never played as Joker, I also take it that you didn't beat ME2.

He said nothing about the character being playable, he just said there was no wheelchair bound (read: physically disabled) individual in Mass Effect.

And no, I haven't beat ME2 yet.

 

[Mother Yeti]

I don't know if this(Not going to look through 13 pages of this.) has been said or not but there is no homosexuality in ME and ME2. You may totally bone Liara as a Femshep but remember that Asari have no gender. They look like alien babes but it's a trick. Fooooled youuuu.

It has been said about forty times already, yes. Your point is irrelevant in light of the fact that both sexes can get friendly with Kelly Chambers (the personal assistant) in ME2.

 

[TylerC]

there is no wheelchair bound character in the game.

I take it you never spoke to Joker.

I take it you never played as Joker, I also take it that you didn't beat ME2.

He said nothing about the character being playable, he just said there was no wheelchair bound (read: physically disabled) individual in Mass Effect.

And no, I haven't beat ME2 yet.

I meant Joker isn't stuck in a wheelchair, he can walk...

 

[Mother Yeti]

I meant Joker isn't stuck in a wheelchair, he can walk...

He can walk with difficulty after being treated by Cerberus, true, but if having osteogenesis imperfecta doesn't count as physically disabled (which I suspect is what 223 meant by "wheelchair bound), I don't know what does.

 

[Kortney]

No male homosexual romance in ME=/=Bioware is homophobic.

What's next, Brokeback Mountain is discriminating against lesbians because it has gay men, but not gay women?

 

[Mother Yeti]

No male homosexual romance in ME=/=Bioware is homophobic.

Well then it's a good thing no one's accused Bioware of being homophobic!

 

[SpireOfFire]

play dragon age. both genders can play for both teams.

 

[Kortney]

No male homosexual romance in ME=/=Bioware is homophobic.

Well then it's a good thing no one's accused Bioware of being homophobic!

People have accused them of having double standards though. People have accused them of thinking that gay sex is "icky".

How the hell are we going to move forward as a society if every game that does not feature the opportunity to play as a minority is questioned?

 

[Mother Yeti]

No male homosexual romance in ME=/=Bioware is homophobic.

Well then it's a good thing no one's accused Bioware of being homophobic!

People have accused them of having double standards though. People have accused them of thinking that gay sex is "icky". ?

People have accused them of pandering to a homophobic demographic, which by all evidence seems to be exactly the case. This is not the same as accusing them of homophobia.

How the hell are we going to move forward as a society if every game that does not feature the opportunity to play as a minority is questioned

Sigh. I know there are only so many hours in the day, but could you at least read the last two pages? To sum up the discussion:

1) Mass Effect is a roleplaying game.
2) Part of the appeal of a roleplaying game is the ability to shape your character in a unique way.
3) In Mass Effect, this includes choosing your romantic interests.
4) If you play a female Shepard you can romance men and women in equal measure.
5) If you play a male Shepard you can only romance women.
6) Why the imbalance?

 

[Kortney]

Sigh. I know there are only so many hours in the day, but could you at least read the last two pages? To sum up the discussion:

Right off the bat, I'm asking you to drop the "sighs". Don't do that, please.

1) Mass Effect is a roleplaying game.

I guess so, but Mass Effect 2 certainly isn't as much of a roleplaying game in comparison to something like Dragon Age or even the first Mass Effect. ME2's character skill customization is incredibly simple. There is only like 4 or 5 abilities to level. Any game with only a handful of skills isn't what I'd call a roleplaying game. I think Mass Effect 2 is a story heavy action game.

2) Part of the appeal of a roleplaying game is the ability to shape your character in a unique way.

This is where you start going off the track. Yes, part of the appeal of a roleplaying game is customization. However, a roleplaying game does not mean you can shape and tailor your character into whatever way you want. There are thousands and thousands of restrictions.

Lets take the focus away from sexuality for a second, and lets look at your ability to even shape your character. There isn't even an armor specialization. All you can really do is choose their appearance and gender, choose a class and choose dialogue options. For "roleplaying" game standards, that's incredibly limited.

You can shape and mold your character only within the restrictions of the game and the story.

3) In Mass Effect, this includes choosing your romantic interests.

Yes, in both Mass Effect 1 and 2 you can choose what character you have a one thirty second cutscene with nearing the end of the game.

4) If you play a female Shepard you can romance men and women in equal measure.

Wrong. Female Mass Effect 2 romances:

-Garrus
-Thane
-Jacob

and the ability to flirt with Kelly.

Male Mass Effect 2 romances:

-Tali
-Jack
-Miranda

and the ability to flirt with Kelly.

Men and women in equal measure? Nope. The only bonuses female characters get is the ability to make innuendo with another female.

Now, lets take the focus towards the original Mass Effect and look at Liara. Liara is an Asari, thus not female. yes, yes, I know this is a very lame cop-out but it is still Mass Effect lore. It is still written into the story. The story can justify this.

6) Why the imbalance?

As I've established, I don't see it as anything but a very slight imbalance. But let's pretend for the sake of argument that there is some huge imbalance. This would still not mean anything. It would not mean Bioware was trying to appeal to the "homophobic public". It would not mean the writers are anti-homosexual. It would not mean anything. It would simply mean that the writers did not include a certain aspect of society in their storyline, and there is nothing wrong with that.

We need to stop putting silly meaning to things. We need to stop complaining after sitting through a true masterpiece of a game about how we weren't able to play as a type of person in our society. Big deal. If I could have it my way, I'd want my Shepherd to have a Afrikaaner accent like me, instead of an American one. I'd want my Shepherd to have a love of kittens. You know what, I'd probably even want the ability to play as a gay male Shepherd. But it's not in the game, and the absence of something doesn't mean anything other than whatever meaning you put to it.

Just as another point to add to the discussion, why is it that roleplaying games get in trouble for stuff like this, when other games don't? How come Mario Brothers doesn't get in trouble for not representing the black community? How come Halo doesn't get in trouble for having no homosexual representation? Why is it that only when you bring in a gameplay mechanic where your character can make "choices" (like in Mass Effect) is when a game starts to have double standards?

 

[GloatingSwine]

Wrong. Female Mass Effect 2 romances:

-Garrus
-Thane
-Jacob

and the ability to flirt with Kelly.

If you don't romance anyone else, you can do Kelly postgame, and Morinth is available to females, though, obviously, not wise.

The point does remain though, you can have F/F romances in both Mass Effect games, but no M/M romances, although you could in both Jade Empire (Sky) and Dragon Age (Zevran).

Frankly, although it's not an option that appeals to me, I think it should be there, as a roleplaying option as much as anything.

 

[223]

there is no wheelchair bound character in the game.

I take it you never spoke to Joker.

I take it you never played as Joker, I also take it that you didn't beat ME2.

Yes I spoke to Joker, he is not a playable character nor a party memeber. Also Im sure a wheelchair in ME would not be a problem to combat, I mean come on, its the future, they would figure out a way to make it hover and mount weapons to it, but i`m OT.

Also, like someone else pointed out, gay people are a minority, so why should game developers waste time and money to add either a new character/ new romance possibility to please a very small crowd ?

Because it is a role-playing game. Allowing people to have their characters reflect their own choices and decisions is rather integral to the whole experience.

The point is no game in whichever category will ever offer the kind of choices and decisions you speak of. If I choose to be an ultra orthodox jew (in RL), than I demand an option to dress Sheppard in an appropriate fashion, and all women in game be dressed very plain. Im a minority do it now ! If I am an Islamist woman (in RL), than why can`t a female sheppard wear a Hijab ? I know what you will say being gay has nothing to do with religion. It is however a reflection of my possible "choices and decisions". Making a game so politically correct that every minority has a say/character/place in it is IMPOSSIPLE and will always be IMPOSSIBLE.

 

[Mother Yeti]

Sigh. I know there are only so many hours in the day, but could you at least read the last two pages? To sum up the discussion:

Right off the bat, I'm asking you to drop the "sighs". Don't do that, please.

I'll drop it, but I'm not going to apologize for getting annoyed when questions that have been answered several times already keep getting asked.

1) Mass Effect is a roleplaying game.

I guess so, but Mass Effect 2 certainly isn't as much of a roleplaying game in comparison to something like Dragon Age or even the first Mass Effect. ME2's character skill customization is incredibly simple. There is only like 4 or 5 abilities to level. Any game with only a handful of skills isn't what I'd call a roleplaying game. I think Mass Effect 2 is a story heavy action game.

We're not talking about abilities, we're talking about the character him/herself. You can customize Shepard's first name, gender, upbringing, military background, appearance, disposition, and romantic interests. It's the imbalance in the latter this thread is addressing.

2) Part of the appeal of a roleplaying game is the ability to shape your character in a unique way.

This is where you start going off the track. Yes, part of the appeal of a roleplaying game is customization. However, a roleplaying game does not mean you can shape and tailor your character into whatever way you want. There are thousands and thousands of restrictions.

Lets take the focus away from sexuality for a second, and lets look at your ability to even shape your character. There isn't even an armor specialization. All you can really do is choose their appearance and gender, choose a class and choose dialogue options. For "roleplaying" game standards, that's incredibly limited.

You can shape and mold your character only within the restrictions of the game and the story.[/quote]

If they're going to allow the player to indulge in same-sex female romances, it is not absurd to expect a symmetrical option for the other gender.

3) In Mass Effect, this includes choosing your romantic interests.

Yes, in both Mass Effect 1 and 2 you can choose what character you have a one thirty second cutscene with nearing the end of the game.

Yet another person who's confusing "building a romantic relationship" with "sex scene."

4) If you play a female Shepard you can romance men and women in equal measure.

Wrong. Female Mass Effect 2 romances:

-Garrus
-Thane
-Jacob

and the ability to flirt with Kelly.

Male Mass Effect 2 romances:

-Tali
-Jack
-Miranda

and the ability to flirt with Kelly.

Men and women in equal measure? Nope. The only bonuses female characters get is the ability to make innuendo with another female.

Maybe not equal measure in Mass Effect 2, but the point remains that as a man your romance options are entirely female, whereas if you're female you have the option of same-sex (including asari) partners.

As for Kelly, let me quote Mass Effect wiki (spoilers, obvs):

Shepard can flirt with Kelly anytime prior to the suicide mission, which eventually results in a private dinner at the captain's quarters, after which she offers to feed Shepard's fish. If she and the other crew-mates are saved, she will send a message on the terminal telling Shepard to use the intercom to invite her up into Shepard's cabin. When Kelly is invited to Shepard's cabin, she will be seen sitting on the couch wearing an outfit like the ones seen being worn by the dancers in Chora's Den and Afterlife. There will be three interaction options available. The first interaction is to have Kelly perform a series of dances. The second option is to have Kelly sit on Shepard's lap with the two characters caressing each other. The third and final interaction is to have Kelly and Shepard lay down together in bed, holding each other close with Shepard stroking Kelly's arm.

If that's what you regard as "flirting" well, damn, girl.

Now, lets take the focus towards the original Mass Effect and look at Liara. Liara is an Asari, thus not female. yes, yes, I know this is a very lame cop-out but it is still Mass Effect lore. It is still written into the story. The story can justify this.

Yet another point that's been made multiple times. Yes, we all get that the asari are monogender according to game lore - but as you said, it's a copout, and you can't credibly regard it as anything other than a same-sex romance option.

6) Why the imbalance?

As I've established, I don't see it as anything but a very slight imbalance. But let's pretend for the sake of argument that there is some huge imbalance. This would still not mean anything. It would not mean Bioware was trying to appeal to the "homophobic public". It would not mean the writers are anti-homosexual. It would not mean anything. It would simply mean that the writers did not include a certain aspect of society in their storyline, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Fine, but your belief that it "means nothing" is backed up by exactly as much hard evidence as our belief that it does mean something: Zero. And I would argue that we've got circumstantial evidence on our side: The fact that our society treats male homosexuality as a gross perversion and female homosexuality as a sexy kink. And, of course, the multiple posters in this thread who have made it clear that they're not comfortable with a gay male Shepard.

We need to stop putting silly meaning to things. We need to stop complaining after sitting through a true masterpiece of a game about how we weren't able to play as a type of person in our society. Big deal. If I could have it my way, I'd want my Shepherd to have a Afrikaaner accent like me, instead of an American one. I'd want my Shepherd to have a love of kittens. You know what, I'd probably even want the ability to play as a gay male Shepherd. But it's not in the game, and the absence of something doesn't mean anything other than whatever meaning you put to it.

"I don't care, you shouldn't care either." Again, a sentiment that's been repeated ad nauseam in this thread. It's been duly noted, trust me.

 

[Mother Yeti]

there is no wheelchair bound character in the game.

I take it you never spoke to Joker.

I take it you never played as Joker, I also take it that you didn't beat ME2.

Yes I spoke to Joker, he is not a playable character nor a party memeber.

You didn't make that distinction in your post. See what I quoted.

The point is no game in whichever category will ever offer the kind of choices and decisions you speak of. If I choose to be an ultra orthodox jew (in RL), than I demand an option to dress Sheppard in an appropriate fashion, and all women in game be dressed very plain. Im a minority do it now ! If I am an Islamist woman (in RL), than why can`t a female sheppard wear a Hijab ? I know what you will say being gay has nothing to do with religion. It is however a reflection of my possible "choices and decisions". Making a game so politically correct that every minority has a say/character/place in it is IMPOSSIPLE and will always be IMPOSSIBLE.

I really wish I could get inside peoples' heads, asari-style, and figure out why it's so difficult to comprehend our position: Female-female romances are allowed. Why are male-male romances not allowed?