Shooting Spree in England.

[Malyc]

Knives are more lethal than firearms.

How do you come to that conclusion?

How? Fore an example a 9mm bullet is 1.169 inch long and diameter is .394 inch (over twice as small as a US dime). Compare to a kitchen knife is very very very small. If you get stabbed by a knife the chances are very very very great that it will hit a vital organ than a bullet. What firearms have is range.

The 124 grain 9mm when traveling at 1200 fps, will hit with 396 ft/lbs of energy. What does you're knife hit with now?

Also, a 210 grain .45 cal loaded to 1200 fps is gonna hit you with over 600 ft/lbs.

I'd have to say that the gun wins, especially because bullets tend to fragment inside flesh (which is what they are designed to do) causing more wound channels than just the .354 caliber hole for you're 9mm.

Plus, if your me, you are using a 12 ga. slug, which, when loaded to 1200 fps, kills you with 1750 ft/lbs, which is enough to punch through you, the guy behind you, and the wall behind him.

 

[Baneat]

Knives are more lethal than firearms.

How do you come to that conclusion?

How? For an example a 9mm bullet is 1.169 inch long and diameter is .394 inch (over twice as small as a US dime). Compare to a kitchen knife is very very very small. If you get stabbed by a knife the chances are very very very great that it will hit a vital organ than a bullet. What firearms have is range.

The velocity of a 9x19 is much, much higher than a knife. It can fragment on impact, causing far greater complications than a knife wound. Range of course is a factor in lethality, how can you simply ignore it?

 

[The_Graff]

12 people killed by one madman with a gun.

You see, if we legalised guns over here, this sort of thing would happen much more frequently.

or, the gunman would have been shot by one of his intended victims thus cutting his rampage short.

 

[Trotgar]

um... I think this proves something about gun control but im not sure what...

nothing really it happens with knifes too

bad thing either way though

Yeah, it happens with knifes, too, but I think it's a bit harder to go on killing spree with a knife than with a gun.

Yeah don't get me started on the whole gun control thing. If someone wants to harm another person gun or not they will still find a way to do it. And using a gun doesn't make it any better or worse. The person(s) is still dead or injured. Just because you have lower gun related crimes doesn't mean there still isn't violent crime.

Yeah, but like I said earlier in my post, it's still harder to defend oneself against a gun than a knife (or similar objects), so without guns the amount of murders/kills would possibly decrease (though in this case he could've probably drove over them too).

12 people killed by one madman with a gun.

You see, if we legalised guns over here, this sort of thing would happen much more frequently.

Not true, because the gunman (if he were in a place where weapons WEREN'T prohibited) would most likely be taken down by the general populace, which is why there are not all that many shooting sprees in America.

The sprees could be shorter, probably, but in the U.S. the amount of gun-related crimes is still very high. Plus the killer seemingly shot the victims from the taxi window, so it may be quite hard to get out a gun and shoot in a way that stops either the killer or the taxi before it gets away.


The efficiency of gun-restricting laws is a different thing, though, and I won't start talking about it now, because when I did that earlier I got some angry comments and I'm pretty sure it won't change anyone's point of view on that issue.

In any case, it's unfortunate that he died, so he won't have to live with what he's done. Plus I am disturbed by deaths, was it a crazy killer or not.

 

[Malyc]

Why didn't anyone shoot back? Oh wait....

Y'know, that's exactly what I said after Columbine.

Schools in America have a no weapons allowed policy, meaning that there are supposed to be no guns on school property, and that students have to fight of gunmen with pencils, although after this happened my schools hired armed policemen to guard the place.

 

[Danny Ocean]

Maybe we should outlaw the knives too!

Don't be ridiculous. We need those to cook with.

Paraphrase- "People Will Kill Anyway"

No, they won't. They may still have the same intention to kill, but they will not kill so many [footnote]Unless they really are psychopathic and rigorously plan a way to stab dozens of people to death without getting taken down. This is a tiny majority of violent crime, though.[/footnote], because it's easier to kill someone with a gun than a knife.

Someone else here said that if everyone had guns they could've taken him down. Look at it this way: If he didn't have a gun, anyone could [footnote]And probably would- he was in his 50's[/footnote] have taken him down. Guns are to violent crime what nukes are to war.


You will now argue that it is impossible to remove the gun supply completely, and you'd probably be right, but the key word is completely. It will still save lives in the majority of cases, because getting a gun is difficult..

 

[Malyc]

Guns are to violent crime what nukes are to war.

What, seldom used?

Nukes have been used twice to my knowledge in war, WWII in 1945 on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so your argument is pretty much irrelevent.

 

[Billion Backs]

Can people not go and use the sensless murder of 12 people to advocate their differing beliefs towards gun control. This is a time when our thoughts should be with the victims and their families - not political one-upmanship over which country has a better stance towards the legality of gun ownership.

People die every day. Do not expect any special treatment for those who are practically strangers to all of us.

Ideas, on the other hand, are immortal.

 

[Kinguendo]

Maybe we should outlaw the knives too! And have people box each other to death.
With enough perseverance anything can be achieved, that's the beauty of the human spirit. If you really want to kill someone, as can be seen in this example, you'll do it anyways whether deadly weapons are readily available to you or not. People who do murder sprees before committing suicide don't usually care about the normal consequences, you know?

A weapon can be made out of practically anything. He could have made explosives and molotov cocktails at home, from completely legitimate materials you can get just about anywhere. And kill a ton of people with them too, if he really had the determination to do so.

I do not think people should be restricted from things just because someone might misuse them. Lets just use US for the example. For every gun owner that uses his rights irresponsibly, there are hundreds of those who don't.

I think that even if the sacrifices have to be made, people should be free.

I hardly think thats the point, in a story about 12 people being killed you want to talk about one person killing one other person... the reason you restrict guns is because it is much more difficult to disarm a gunman and guns kill more people at a faster rate.

We banned guns when people started using them to kill children and we thought... you know what, fuck that. Clearly guns arent safe and now we have dead children on our hands because of them. Do you think a guy with a knife could have killed those 12 people? If so you must think Britain is full of mythical ninjas because I have never heard of someone going on a killing spree with a knife and certainly not getting close to 12 kills.

In fact there was a story where a man tried to kill some children with a machete (much deadlier than a knife) and the teacher stopped him before anyone was killed, this teacher wasnt armed or trained to face such a situation... just brave.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

um... I think this proves something about gun control but im not sure what...

nothing really it happens with knifes too

bad thing either way though

Knives cant be used in a drive by knifing. Knives cant be used for mass rampages. You cant kill someone from far away with a knife. An unarmed person can fight someone with a knife ect ect ect ect. Im very happy we have gun control here. The fact is there are three kinds of people.

People who want to go on rampages.
People you could go on rampages.
People who are both of the above.

Without gun control everyone meets the second criteria and so more killings ensue. Poor people. This shouldnt have happened in England, stricter gun control is needed.

 

[Danny Ocean]

Guns are to violent crime what nukes are to war.

What, seldom used?

Nukes have been used twice to my knowledge in war, WWII in 1945 on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so your argument is pretty much irrelevent.

No, you're misrepresenting my analogy. You're also using that as an excuse to ignore the rest of my argument, which is an incredibly poor show on your behalf.

What I meant was this: If one person has a gun, everyone else has to get a gun. If one country gets nuclear weapons, every other country has to get nuclear weapons. The similarity there is a pretty easy one to understand, no?

 

[PurpleSky]

This is why you don't leave the house.

 

[jthm]

Wow... that's pretty big news. That shows me for not watching the news today.

Obviously it won't seem that big to you Americans with your near constant state of blood fueled rampages.

Spoiler

Just kidding guys.

Why just kidding? You're spot on. Hell, this sort of thing doesn't really phase us anymore unless it's within our own state. Just another bit of news for us to ignore.

 

[Big Max]

One of the men killed (Garry Purdham) was the husband of a PE teacher who works at my school. The son of the man who shot him also goes to my school, I've played with him over Xbox Live numerous times and have friends who were very close to him.

The whole situation is very disturbing to me, you don't imagine things like this can ever happen to you until it comes quite so close to home.

 

[Billion Backs]

Guns are to violent crime what nukes are to war.

What, seldom used?

Nukes have been used twice to my knowledge in war, WWII in 1945 on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so your argument is pretty much irrelevent.

No, you're misrepresenting my analogy. You're also using that as an excuse to ignore the rest of my argument, which is an incredibly poor show on your behalf.

What I meant was this: If one person has a gun, everyone else has to get a gun. If one country gets nuclear weapons, every other country has to get nuclear weapons. The similarity there is a pretty easy one to understand, no?

But not every country actually has nuclear weapons... And there are plenty of bloody and not at all nuclear conflicts that happened since that fateful day (technically, days, August 6th and August 9th) in 1945.

I don't know where I'm going with this, actually. Hur.

Oh, wait.

 

[Malyc]

Guns are to violent crime what nukes are to war.

What, seldom used?

Nukes have been used twice to my knowledge in war, WWII in 1945 on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so your argument is pretty much irrelevent.

No, you're misrepresenting my analogy. You're also using that as an excuse to ignore the rest of my argument, which is an incredibly poor show on your behalf.

What I meant was this: If one person has a gun, everyone else has to get a gun. If one country gets nuclear weapons, every other country has to get nuclear weapons. The similarity there is a pretty easy one to understand, no?

Not everyone wants to own a gun though. Also, concealed carry laws, like the ones we have in Minnesota, tend to deter the less violent criminals, like muggers and thieves, and give the victims of more violent crime, like rape or murder, a better chance to defend themselves.

Gun control is the belief that the woman found strangled in an alleyway with her own underwear is somehow more righteous than the woman trying to eplain to the police how the rapist got the fatal gunshot wound. Self defence is a RIGHT, not a privilage.

 

[Billion Backs]

um... I think this proves something about gun control but im not sure what...

nothing really it happens with knifes too

bad thing either way though

Knives cant be used in a drive by knifing. Knives cant be used for mass rampages. You cant kill someone from far away with a knife. An unarmed person can fight someone with a knife ect ect ect ect. Im very happy we have gun control here. The fact is there are three kinds of people.

People who want to go on rampages.
People you could go on rampages.
People who are both of the above.

Without gun control everyone meets the second criteria and so more killings ensue. Poor people. This shouldnt have happened in England, stricter gun control is needed.

Drive-by knifing made possible! Hurrah!

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

um... I think this proves something about gun control but im not sure what...

nothing really it happens with knifes too

bad thing either way though

Knives cant be used in a drive by knifing. Knives cant be used for mass rampages. You cant kill someone from far away with a knife. An unarmed person can fight someone with a knife ect ect ect ect. Im very happy we have gun control here. The fact is there are three kinds of people.

People who want to go on rampages.
People you could go on rampages.
People who are both of the above.

Without gun control everyone meets the second criteria and so more killings ensue. Poor people. This shouldnt have happened in England, stricter gun control is needed.

Drive-by knifing made possible! Hurrah!

I dont know if i should be impressed or appauled. Il go with the foremost.

 

[Billion Backs]

I dont know if i should be impressed or appauled. Il go with the foremost.

Laughing tends to help.

It's the best way of dealing with things.

 

[Kinguendo]

Not everyone wants to own a gun though. Also, concealed carry laws, like the ones we have in Minnesota, tend to deter the less violent criminals, like muggers and thieves, and give the victims of more violent crime, like rape or murder, a better chance to defend themselves.

Gun control is the belief that the woman found strangled in an alleyway with her own underwear is somehow more righteous than the woman trying to eplain to the police how the rapist got the fatal gunshot wound. Self defence is a RIGHT, not a privilage.

HAHAHAHA! Look up the definition of self defence, I can assure you the word "gun" isnt in it.

Oh and the story would more likely be "Gun control is the belief that the woman found strangled in an alleyway with her own underwear is somehow more righteous than the woman found with her kneecaps shot out so she couldnt run away then she was raped (along with the pain of being shot) and then being murdered... along with any witness' that happened by."

Dont think so? How many times do you hear the story of how a person killed their attacker compared to how many stories of an attack.

In both situations the woman will scream, in one situation you have her being strangled to death (not known for being a quick process) after her screaming and in the other her being shot after the screaming. Which murder is more likely to get stopped? The one that takes a long time or the one that happens in a fraction of a second?