Shooting Spree in England.

[Rhymenoceros]

I keep hearing about this on the news-though that's probably 'cos I live in England- but what's particularly worrying is that the shootings were in Cumberland and some good friends of mine are currently on holiday in Cumberland

 

[crimson5pheonix]

People aren't reading the story. This man drove about, seemingly at random, and fired at passers by. Someone carrying a gun could not have stopped him.

If anything we should be arguing for better equipped and more police, if a helicopter and armed response unit could have got to him after the first killing all the rest could have been prevented.

Gun control laws have so little to do with this case it's infuriating to see people use it to score a couple of cheap points.

A shot in the radiator would break the car soon. A shot in the tire would stop the car very soon. A shot in him would stop the car immediately.

But yes, armed police are also good. Do the regular police carry guns over there?

 

[oktalist]

For an example a 9mm bullet is 1.169 inch long and diameter is .394 inch (over twice as small as a US dime). Compare to a kitchen knife is very very very small. If you get stabbed by a knife the chances are very very very great that it will hit a vital organ than a bullet. What firearms have is range.

Knives don't travel at thousands of miles per hour, though. A 9mm bullet may be 1.169 inches long, but it should penetrate at least 12 inches, and is likely to inflict a certain amount of radial damage, too.

And in this case, the suspect is reported to have used a shotgun and a sniper rifle, not a 9mm.

For the record, I am (a) generally against government-imposed gun control, and (b) quite upset by this news.

 

[Low Key]

12 people killed by one madman with a gun.

You see, if we legalised guns over here, this sort of thing would happen much more frequently.

EDIT: Yes, OK, if guns were legal over here, someone could have stopped him. But then there would be a lot more guns on the streets, and thugs with knives would become thugs with guns. You can outrun someone with a knife. Outrunning bullets is something much harder.

An NRA member would point out that black market weapons are easier to get than legal weapons if you know the right people. Which a professional criminal would.

Professional criminals aren't who I'm as worried about, as professional criminals are less likely to be using them in the streets. I'm more concerned that if guns were legalized over here, youth gangs (who are inntimidating enough as it is) will have easier access to them, and they'll be willing to use them on anyone. If they're willing to threaten anyone with a knife, I'm sure that the same mentality will extend to guns if they could easily secure them.

I think the biggest reason why guns aren't as big of a problem in England as they possibly could be is because you guys have CCTV [http://boingboing.net/2009/07/20/cctv-density-maps-of.html]. The chance of getting caught is greater. Stabbing someone can be done stealthily. That's just my theory.

 

[Actual]

People aren't reading the story. This man drove about, seemingly at random, and fired at passers by. Someone carrying a gun could not have stopped him.

If anything we should be arguing for better equipped and more police, if a helicopter and armed response unit could have got to him after the first killing all the rest could have been prevented.

Gun control laws have so little to do with this case it's infuriating to see people use it to score a couple of cheap points.

A shot in the radiator would break the car soon. A shot in the tire would stop the car very soon. A shot in him would stop the car immediately.

But yes, armed police are also good. Do the regular police carry guns over there?

No, only specially trained units. The number of them varies from county to county. But these units are usually in their cars at all times on patrol waiting for the emergency calls.

I suppose you're right, an armed bystander may have been able to do as you describe. But it's hard to say if anyone would react quick enough do it.

But my stance on gun's in the U.K is a big no. The only reason I leave the house past 8 in the evening is because I know I can handle the random scumbag attacks. If they were armed I'd never dare leave the house.

Wouldn't matter if I was armed too, they're not going to let me take 10 paces turn and fire, traditional like.

 

[howdyoldbuddyoldpal]

I keep hearing about this on the news-though that's probably 'cos I live in England- but what's particularly worrying is that the shootings were in Cumberland and some good friends of mine are currently on holiday in Cumberland

Dont worry, Cumbria's a big place. Its no wonder he needed to drive around in his car to kill 12 people, you'd never bump into that many people on foot.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

People aren't reading the story. This man drove about, seemingly at random, and fired at passers by. Someone carrying a gun could not have stopped him.

If anything we should be arguing for better equipped and more police, if a helicopter and armed response unit could have got to him after the first killing all the rest could have been prevented.

Gun control laws have so little to do with this case it's infuriating to see people use it to score a couple of cheap points.

A shot in the radiator would break the car soon. A shot in the tire would stop the car very soon. A shot in him would stop the car immediately.

But yes, armed police are also good. Do the regular police carry guns over there?

No, only specially trained units. The number of them varies from county to county. But these units are usually in their cars at all times on patrol waiting for the emergency calls.

I suppose you're right, an armed bystander may have been able to do as you describe. But it's hard to say if anyone would react quick enough do it.

But my stance on gun's in the U.K is a big no. The only reason I leave the house past 8 in the evening is because I know I can handle the random scumbag attacks. If they were armed I'd never dare leave the house.

Wouldn't matter if I was armed too, they're not going to let me take 10 paces turn and fire, traditional like.

That's better than how I thought. I always figured that the police would be recalled to the station and armed there in case of an emergency. But that seemed... "clunky" while having them armed at all times just invites people to take their gun and use it against them.

 

[punkrocker27]

If anything we should be arguing for better equipped and more police, if a helicopter and armed response unit could have got to him after the first killing all the rest could have been prevented.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but usually there is a less powerful police force in rural areas like the ones in Cumbria. You have to spare more for the big cities. That's probably what he had in mind, at least.

 

[Wadders]

12 people killed by one madman with a gun.

You see, if we legalised guns over here, this sort of thing would happen much more frequently.

EDIT: Yes, OK, if guns were legal over here, someone could have stopped him. But then there would be a lot more guns on the streets, and thugs with knives would become thugs with guns. You can outrun someone with a knife. Outrunning bullets is something much harder.

Guns are legal over here in the UK...

But I know what you mean, they aint very widespread in comparison to some countries.

Sad times indeed, but I dont think theres anything you can do to stop this kind of thing occasionally happening.

 

[Spacewolf]

i dont really think even if they had guns it would matter this guy was just driving past taking pot shots at people so even if people who where on the pavments had firearms they probly wouldnt of been able to do much

 

[crimson5pheonix]

i dont really think even if they had guns it would matter this guy was just driving past taking pot shots at people so even if people who where on the pavments had firearms they probly wouldnt of been able to do much

They could have stopped his car with a gun.

 

[Cryogaijin]

Knives are more lethal than firearms.

How do you come to that conclusion?

How? For an example a 9mm bullet is 1.169 inch long and diameter is .394 inch (over twice as small as a US dime). Compare to a kitchen knife is very very very small. If you get stabbed by a knife the chances are very very very great that it will hit a vital organ than a bullet. What firearms have is range.

Not exactly. . .

When a bullet hits a target it sets up a shockwave that moves stuff around. It also creates a permanent wound channel and a temporary crush channel. (Oddly enough, bullet injuries are crush type injuries.) While crush injuries are ugly, they tend to seep rather than spurt.

Knives tend to make clean(ish) cuts, and they DON'T move things out of the way when they strike. Knick an artery with a bullet and it is likely to seep slowly into the body cavity. Knick an artery with a knife and it flows very strongly through the clean cut.

OTOH, a gun is a more reliable weapon than a knife, as the average gun can go a couple thousand rounds before failing, and an average knife will tend to hit a bone and break after a very few stabbings.

 

[Doomsday11]

12 people killed by one madman with a gun.

You see, if we legalised guns over here, this sort of thing would happen much more frequently.

EDIT: Yes, OK, if guns were legal over here, someone could have stopped him. But then there would be a lot more guns on the streets, and thugs with knives would become thugs with guns. You can outrun someone with a knife. Outrunning bullets is something much harder.

But your not relising the facts if gun's were legalized,it would be far more officious then are American counter-parts plus bad guys are always going to have ways of obtaining weapons just look at the mob.

 

[Aur0ra145]

People aren't reading the story. This man drove about, seemingly at random, and fired at passers by. Someone carrying a gun could not have stopped him.

If anything we should be arguing for better equipped and more police, if a helicopter and armed response unit could have got to him after the first killing all the rest could have been prevented.

Gun control laws have so little to do with this case it's infuriating to see people use it to score a couple of cheap points.

A shot in the radiator would break the car soon. A shot in the tire would stop the car very soon. A shot in him would stop the car immediately.

But yes, armed police are also good. Do the regular police carry guns over there?

No, only specially trained units. The number of them varies from county to county. But these units are usually in their cars at all times on patrol waiting for the emergency calls.

I suppose you're right, an armed bystander may have been able to do as you describe. But it's hard to say if anyone would react quick enough do it.

But my stance on gun's in the U.K is a big no. The only reason I leave the house past 8 in the evening is because I know I can handle the random scumbag attacks. If they were armed I'd never dare leave the house.

Wouldn't matter if I was armed too, they're not going to let me take 10 paces turn and fire, traditional like.

I don't understand it the UK is supposed to be the safest, bestest, most wonderful society in the entire world and they have a guy shoot 37 people spread out of 30 different locations and nobody was able to stop him.

At some point it's good to look back in on yourself and ask, "Are we really doing this the right way?"

 

[dbungus2000]

I blame video games, what other explanation could there be?

 

[hardlymotivated]

Charlie Brooker did a rather brilliant piece on the news coverage of these types of shootings before. Still revelant and well worth watching.

See, I think this video really shows why I'm bothered by the news so much when it comes to these events. They always spread around the story, drawing as much attention to it as possible. They always talk about the killer and why he might have been drove to do this, while the people he killed are represented by nothing more than a body count used to shock the viewers. Then everyone uses the event as a way to forward their own political agendas and boost support for their opinion regarding things like gun control. In the end the people that were affected by this the most, the victims and their families, are completley forgotten.

If you haven't already, I'd recommend searching YouTube for "Newswipe" - the show from which the clip was taken - as Brooker offers analysis of news coverage of similar tragic events. It's interesting stuff to watch and virtually always highlights the points you raised in your post.

 

[Spacewolf]

i dont really think even if they had guns it would matter this guy was just driving past taking pot shots at people so even if people who where on the pavments had firearms they probly wouldnt of been able to do much

They could have stopped his car with a gun.

what? you carnt just stop a car by shooting it even if you hit the fuel line or something else it would take several minutes to stop and if it ht the engine block the bullet wouldnt do jack, and hitting the driver would be even harder from and sanding position

 

[crimson5pheonix]

i dont really think even if they had guns it would matter this guy was just driving past taking pot shots at people so even if people who where on the pavments had firearms they probly wouldnt of been able to do much

They could have stopped his car with a gun.

what? you carnt just stop a car by shooting it even if you hit the fuel line or something else it would take several minutes to stop and if it ht the engine block the bullet wouldnt do jack, and hitting the driver would be even harder from and sanding position

By the sound of it, you wouldn't have to stop it immediately. You could have shot the radiator and after a while, the car would stop. You could also shoot a tire and have the car stop quickly.

 

[Zepren]

When i left home for work this afternoon, it was 5 dead. When i got to work it was 12. It's insane. Cumbria need more armed police