Should muslim women remove their veil in stores?
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No but why does religion have anything to do with it.Abedeus said:
No wait, that's a bad way of putting it.
If my religion, for a completely stereotypical hypothetical - the Church of South Carolina, states that all men have the right to bear arms, and this is a world wide religion, are you going to let me walk around Australia with semi-automatic rifles?
My point is, the rule is not there to be racist, the same rule that applies to Muslim women and their head-dress applies to a bikers helmet, or a scalf over your face, or an imitation cowboy costume. It is asked of all patrons so that they can be identified on camera.
Personally I disagree with the veil entirely. It is merely a vehicle for the disempowerment of women in a overly patriarchal society, by removing their identity. It saddens me when women in a full niqhab with, just the eyes showing, say that they don't feel confident without it. It's a form of mental conditioning to keep the women meek.
If you are interested, I'd recommend Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi as it shows what happened in Iran, the veil and dress codes being mandatory after the Shah was removed from power and the Islamic Revolution took hold.
Huzzah for free speech?
If you are interested, I'd recommend Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi as it shows what happened in Iran, the veil and dress codes being mandatory after the Shah was removed from power and the Islamic Revolution took hold.
And this is the kind of response that has us walking on eggshells so we don't offend anyone. No one said they hated the people, just that they disagree with the traditions that they follow.Abedeus said:
Huzzah for free speech?
Saying something is bad/you don't like it is okay.galletea said:
Saying something is "stupid as hell" is an offense.
It's like a difference between saying "I don't think you are right" and "I think you are a stupid son of a twat".
Free speech ends when you insult someone.
Are you actually comparing wearing a veil by women to walking with a pair of rifles on plain sight?Gitsnik said:
Plus, if a religion tells you do use/wear firearms, hurt people and stuff it's more of a cult or a sect.
Yeah, but the "You shall not kill" is one of the Ten Commandments. 5th or 6th one, depending on what church you are in (Jews and Protestants 6th, Catholics 5th).Sparrowsabre7 said:
Are you actually comparing wearing a veil by women to walking with a pair of rifles on plain sight?Gitsnik said:
Plus, if a religion tells you do use/wear firearms, hurt people and stuff it's more of a cult or a sect.[/quote]
I was going to say the same thing. You're not required by the church to wear firearms, so that's not even close to being a good metaphor.
And yes, the comparison between guns and veils was pretty hilarious, too.
You can disagree with the religion, but you can't make them stop doing their traditions/watchmacallit if it's not hurting anyone.
- My thoughts in a nutshell. I'm sleepy, I am now heading off to bed, most likely to engage in the activity of sleeping. Goodnight, America! *credits roll over my smiling face as audience applauds*
- My thoughts in a nutshell. I'm sleepy, I am now heading off to bed, most likely to engage in the activity of sleeping. Goodnight, America! *credits roll over my smiling face as audience applauds*
OBJECTION! God has made it clear that we are free to kill everyone who questions these delusional fantasies so I suggest you heed to His call and start training suicide bombers to attack people such as myself.Abedeus said:
Leviticus
24:14 Bring forth him that hath cursed without the camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him.
24:15 And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, Whosoever curseth his God shall bear his sin.
24:16 And he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death.
Why do you need a holy book to have faith (religion)? If I say I am part of motorcyclianism that believes motorcycle helmets should be worn at all places could they disagree with me? Yes obviously they could and would as delusional fantasies only become official after they become an organized mass delusional fantasies.Abedeus said:
No. Oh and you'd prefer I hid them? Behind, oh I don't know, a veil?Abedeus said:
I was making the point by using an over-the-top example of "my religion says I can do this so you should let me".
define:cult "followers of an exclusive system of religious beliefs and practices" and sect: "a subdivision of a larger religious group".Abedeus said:
In this case, a religion (it doesn't matter which one) is defining that you must wear x or do y - to the (potential) detriment of the rest of societies safety and/or livelihood. To use another hypothetical, a thief could dress up in one of these outfits (face covered and all) and rob a place blind (or hold them up or take hostages or whatever) anonymously.
That's all they're trying to protect - it has, overall, nothing to do with religion. The problem is that ever since that thing with the towers everybody has been all over Islamic people for every little thing and every little thing then makes it into the headlines.
You don't see "Ninja asked to remove his balaclava" in the headlines, because the ninja doesn't wear one into a store. (Sorry, had to get a Ninja joke in there somewhere).
I think the issue is that Islam demands that western society make special dispensation for them. So they can get ID but don't have to show their face when someone wants to check.
Of course this doesn't work both ways. Walking around Iran in shorts and a vest will get you arrested, granted Iran is an extreme example but it isn't much different in other Islamic countries.
The problem here is that we're obviously not going to agree and we'll end up arguing around in circles. Just like with any other religion thread. I've made my opinions clear, have fun arguing about it.
Of course this doesn't work both ways. Walking around Iran in shorts and a vest will get you arrested, granted Iran is an extreme example but it isn't much different in other Islamic countries.
The problem here is that we're obviously not going to agree and we'll end up arguing around in circles. Just like with any other religion thread. I've made my opinions clear, have fun arguing about it.
Free speech ends when you give in to the political correctness. Criticizing should not be hindered even if somebody "takes offence".Abedeus said:
Yet it is contradicted thousands of times on bible. God himself or his followers never care about such commands so it's not relevant.Abedeus said:
That's why there is "Let he, who has no sin, throw the first stone". Or something like that, I don't remember which book is that and I do not possess an English Bible.Dele said:
Besides, the killing of non-believers and others non-Christians belongs to the Dark Ages, where zealous fanatics used the Bible for their benefits.
Exactly. But then again, it's hardly a religion if there is no God, no message, no point other than being a criminal/wearing a helmet or other piece of equipment.Dele said:
You might then say that satanism is a religion and they can go and kill people and animals for their lord. Or you could start a 2Pacanism, where people dress like Tupac Shakur and try to rap. Then you don't have to pay taxes, too.
Wait what?, im not allowed to disagree with religion without being a rascist?Abedeus said:
Oh, and please tell me what good discriminating against women does, Please, i beg of you, you who are so high and mighty, please tell me what good a law that prohibits women from being allowed to show their bodies does, cause last time i checked, all non-muslim countries hasnt been destroyed by god just cause our women dress normally, and thats a pretty big piece of evidence that the law is, just as i said earlier...Dumb as hell.
Exactly, and now zealous fanatics use Koran to override security for their own twisted needs. Reneissance already happened guys! Give up and give in.Abedeus said:
Yes there can be a religion without god(s) or messages. Frankly religion doesn't even need a point as seen from existing religions. Like I said when enough people start believing that Earth revolves around Sun and that there is a giant man watching us wank, we suddenly need to respect their delusions. Respect needs to be earned, demanding it gives you even less.Abedeus said:
Eh. You really see no difference between "I don't like this religion" and "I think this religion is stupid as hell"?Fronken said:
I'll tell you. In the first one, it's your opinion without emotions.
In the second one you are insulting the religion and it's full of negative emotions.
I, uh, think you've misunderstood. I'm guessing it's a more flowery way of saying "a child that has yet to learn of sex", because, well, the Koran is written as poetry.rossatdi said:
Good point. However, while it's an apt comparison on religious/cultural grounds, it's a bit different, because the veil covers womens' identities and the possibilities the women could conceal weapons in the garment, and the turban, while it can be used to conceal weapons, the person in question can still be identified.Monkfish Acc. said:
As for me, I'm on the fence 'bout this issue.
Shame means shame. You don't use that word (or it whatever it is in Arabic, assuming there isn't a specific loss of meaning) without a negative connotation. Once again religion labels women as the 'sex' gender and persecute them for it.stompy said:
You think old holy men just didn't get laid enough or something?
There was a Lutheran pastor I once spoke to about this (actually a very similar topic about it). His 'belief' on it, from his years of training and research of his own faith, was that the shame was implied about publicity. (Edit: But he still said no when I asked if I could have sex all over the park if nobody saw usrossatdi said:
)To put it back into the terms of children, a kid will happily run around naked if you let them, or hands wander where they "shouldn't" (either accidentally or not) all in the "innocence" of youth. It's only later after we tell them they're not permitted that they get body curious.
Anyway, just wanted to put down that side of the point, carry on.
Im not insulting their religion, im saying that one of their laws is bullshit, dont i have the right to say that something stupid Is stupid?, The laws against women being able to wear normal clothes is exacly that, Stupid as hell.Abedeus said:
As i have said over and over again, i am not a rascist, and saying something about a religion is stupid as hell doesnt make me a rascist, i simply think its stupid as hell, and i NEVER said that the muslim religion was stupid as hell, so just STFU and stop misquoting me, i said that their law against women is stupid as hell, which it is, i NEVER even mentioned that their entire religion is stupid.
So to go back to my old response, seeing as your defending their right to treat women like slaves, i beg of you:
Give me 1 valid reason why women should not be allowed to wear whatever they want, Just 1, thats all im asking for.