"Shut up because I'm a soldier!"

[EmperorSubcutaneous]

.
I agree, if I question a military action, I don't care about the soldiers?

Especially weird when you're questioning whether it was necessary to put them in danger. And yet, I've been there. I don't support the troops, because I DON'T want them to be butchered horrendously by IEDs.

I'm not sure how that works, but hey.

Also it's apparently okay to boo a soldier who comes out as gay, while still screaming that you "support the troops."

I guess supporting the concept of the military and supporting the individuals who are actually in the military are two different things.

 

[AdjectiveNoun]

good on ya for keeping on him and persisting through his BS. I'm pretty sure a goodly amount of this can be traced to the immediate post-WWII era, all that "greatest generation" stuff based around their service in the military or involvement with the war effort.

It became the yardstick in that era for judging a person's worth if they served in the military. it was common practice for employers to request the service records of prospective hires.

fast-forward a generation and now the practices for judging the base worth of a person have become the basis for lionizing them. It's like how Yahtzee always goes on about, our generation doesn't have a similar cultural rallying point, a similar shared experience, so combat and service becomes this big romanticized thing and those involved have some sort of perspective on life unknown to us (I mean, they DO, but it doesn't extend to the lengths we allow them) and so people let them get away with murder insofar as spouting bullshit is concerned.

 

[Gigano]

Well, unless the debate is on military hardware or front line combat experiences, then him being a solider counts for absolutely nothing. He didn't get any more knowledgeable on the fiscal policies of American society by running around in Vietnam shooting up the place.

 

[spartan231490]

This is going to be a touchy subject since we Americans idolize soldiers as much as we do. So I'm going to establish right off the bat that I respect soldiers for what they done and the sacrifices they've made. This wont stop most of the knee jerk reaction I'm sure this will get but maybe some of it.

That being said, I don't think being a soldier automatically means their opinions are right. But they bring up their combat history as if that makes all their opinions right.

I was recently arguing with a very right wing old man who stated "If Obama had given us all that bail out money every American would be a millionaire right now!"

And I said "But if we were all millionaires then a load of bread would cost a thousand dollars."

"I'm a soldier and I had three tours in Vietnam and that's not how it works."

Long awkward pause because, I too, respect soldiers and I wondered if I should pursue this or just let it go.... But fuck this guy. I don't care if you're Superman, stupidity is stupidity. So I said "It's called INFLATION. They more money we have the more things cost! If everyone had ten times more money then everything would COST ten times more. It's basic economics."

The argument went on and skewed off into other subjects like how he thought the rich shouldn't be taxed at all because they give us jobs and we should honor them for that etc etc etc. But the sticking point for me was... He brought up his combat history repeatedly as if killing people in Vietnam made his opinion more correct than mine. And he got very... VERY upset that no matter how many times he brought up that he was a soldier, I wouldn't back down.

Honestly, he's not the only one. I've seen soldiers bring up that they are soldiers, their tours, etc many times as a way to establish their own credibility.

If I used my job I'd say "I'm a janitor of two years and I clean shit off walls put there by ignorant slob tourists and my opinion of economic reform is this!" See how ridiculous that sounded? That's what I feel when they try to pull their combat history into a discussion that has nothing to do with combat.

But they can do it not get called out on it.

Why?

I actually have to point out that that isn't how inflation works. Inflation currently is based on the interest rates set and on international trade. Current inflation is not based on the amount of currency in circulation. Also, if Inflation were based on currency in circulation, the inflation amount would have been the same regardless of whether the bailout money went to the people or to the banks like it did. In fact, because of the way lending and banks work, it probably would have caused less inflation had it been payed to the people. Prices would increase, but only because people would be more willing to pay higher prices, the demand curve would shift, it has nothing to do with inflation.

Sorry about that, but misunderstanding inflation really bugs me, it's a peeve. Other than that, i agree with your post. Being a soldier doesn't make you any more right than anyone else.

 

[DustStorm]

If you're discussing something directly related to combat and the soldier say something about it than he is likely to be as right as a physicist is when talking about relativity because that is/was their job. If a soldier mentions his/her military service when discussing something unrelated to combat such as economics, physics, math etc. Their opinion is just as valid as anybody else's who does not have a special interest in that specific field(such as an economist, physicist or mathematician).
That's my opinion at least.

 

[Vamantha]

It's another form of pulling the pity card.

 

[loc978]

I'm a veteran, and I agree with the OP's sentiment... though in the cited argument, you and the soldier were both incorrect.

 

[Mid-Boss]

snip

I actually have to point out that that isn't how inflation works. Inflation currently is based on the interest rates set and on international trade. Current inflation is not based on the amount of currency in circulation. Also, if Inflation were based on currency in circulation, the inflation amount would have been the same regardless of whether the bailout money went to the people or to the banks like it did. In fact, because of the way lending and banks work, it probably would have caused less inflation had it been payed to the people. Prices would increase, but only because people would be more willing to pay higher prices, the demand curve would shift, it has nothing to do with inflation.

Sorry about that, but misunderstanding inflation really bugs me, it's a peeve. Other than that, i agree with your post. Being a soldier doesn't make you any more right than anyone else.

Does that mean.... I could be a millionaire right now...? But instead we threw a fortune at the people who created the problem in the first place?

 

[Caverat]

You can respect people and disagree with them. In fact, that shows a greater amount of respect than just agreeing with everything they say. You aren't coddling them, or treating them like a child when you acknowledge their views and intellectually disagree.

Yeah, military members deserve respect, as does everyone who serves society. The reason why soldiers seem to get that extra nod is because they are citizens who willfully swear away many of the rights they are otherwise guaranteed. That is kind of significant. Is there any other job that comes with its own legal system and will find you guilty of a crime if you are late for work? Or where you can be ordered to go do something potentially life-threatening and your refusal is a serious offence?

It is annoying when someone says 'But I've done/seen/heard X' as a way to make their argument seem more legit. I recommend just being direct with this kind of shite, if it is irrelevant to the discussion, say so. In this case, the dude went through 'nam, I'd hope he developed a thick skin to people just disagreeing with him. If he didn't, that is his own fault.

 

[PixelKing]

If you are discussing military, then fair enough.
If you are discussing fast food with the CEO of McDonalds, then fair enough.
If a soldier says his opinion of fast food is right because he is a solider, then its silly, same if the CEO says he could command the army to take on all other civilisation and win with no casualties because he leads McDonalds.

P.S- Because I am a king, all my opinions are correct. And because I am the king of pixels, my opinions on any videogames are the truth

 

[emeraldrafael]

It seems to be something in the older group. I think its a refusal to be wrong, though its not just contained to soldiers.

I've been around it, but most of my family who are ex military dont seem to be like that. They stay out of politics as much as possible unless they're voting.

 

[spartan231490]

snip

I actually have to point out that that isn't how inflation works. Inflation currently is based on the interest rates set and on international trade. Current inflation is not based on the amount of currency in circulation. Also, if Inflation were based on currency in circulation, the inflation amount would have been the same regardless of whether the bailout money went to the people or to the banks like it did. In fact, because of the way lending and banks work, it probably would have caused less inflation had it been payed to the people. Prices would increase, but only because people would be more willing to pay higher prices, the demand curve would shift, it has nothing to do with inflation.

Sorry about that, but misunderstanding inflation really bugs me, it's a peeve. Other than that, i agree with your post. Being a soldier doesn't make you any more right than anyone else.

Does that mean.... I could be a millionaire right now...? But instead we threw a fortune at the people who created the problem in the first place?

More or less. Yeah, life's a *****. Welcome to government for big business.

 

[Mr_Self-Destruct]

So yeah, I was in the Army; finished a deployment in Iraq and all that jazz. But I'll admit, there are a lot of assholes in the Army; it happens. Every once in a while, I might bring up something I did in the military to prove a point, but only if it pertains to what we're talking about. For example, killing people has nothing to do with Obama Care, and supposedly making everyone millionaires; so don't bring it up xp.

But really, you can expect that out of people in any situation. I was in an discussion about gay rights with a Bible thumping conservative, and she said "Don't argue with me, I was in Debate!" Like automatically, because she was in Debate; that means that gay people shouldn't be able to get married.

And for all the UK blokes out there, all the Brits I worked with in Baghdad (Which was about 6) were really level headed and seemed to have a pretty good grasp of politics, so that's cool on you guys.

 

[Gamblerjoe]

their stupidity is their own curse. its the stupid people who dont know how to adjust to the curve balls life throws at you. its the stupid people who dont know how to protect themselves from fraud.

i once had an argument with a guy while playing DDO over why I wasnt using the voice chat system. after i made my point, his response was to tell me that he served in Iraq, and therefore he was right and i was wrong.

at another point, i was talking about the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs with a member of my family who served in the navy most of their life. i said that i thought it was wrong that so many innocent civilians had to die, and their response was "would you rather that a bunch of military personnel like me died in stead?" I really didnt know how to respond to that. i mean seriously? do most members of the military believe that civilians deserve to die and that the people actually doing the fighting deserve to live?

 

[Michael Hirst]

I've not had it brought up like that but I've had a girlfriend who had an ex who joined the army and got really really pissy at me about "Taking his girl" when he came back from Afghanistan then accused me of not being a real man because I wouldn't fight for my country blah blah blah. Really struck me as pathetic.

Backstory: They broke up just before he went into the army, the girl in question said she didn't want to have a relationship with a guy who wouldn't be around and could even get killed on duty, she was only 18 and didn't need that kind of commitment/pressure on her.

I imagine things like this are more common in America than England, we do respect our soldiers here but it's not the same as America who seem to idolize them in comparison.

Going to war isn't a defence against being a prick, it doesn't strengthen any arguements unless they're about war or combat etc. Yes there's a good degree of respect in being a soldier but it doesn't mean everyone has to bow down and accept you as a superior.

 

[EeveeElectro]

I'd just say, "Yeah? Well I passed my GCSE's, mate."
I have to admit, all the people I personally know who are in the army dropped out of school or couldn't find work elsewhere yet the army seems to accept anyone.
I respect them for what they do, but they can't keep pulling that on us. It's like parents who say, "Yeah, well I have a kid so I know everything, shut up."
People hate being proved wrong, I suppose.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

As some people have already said, here in the UK this is a lot rarer so I don't frequently get annoyed by it. But you're right (and that's coming from someone in a military family). I don't care if the person I'm arguing with has a VC (Victoria Cross), if they're wrong they're wrong. Also, when it comes to the example you described, Vietnam?! Vietnam was the most morally questionable war in the 20th Century. Horrible war crimes were committed, mostly against civilians, and for what? Vietnam hadn't even done anything to America, it was just another power play of the Cold War. There was an already existing civil war in Vietnam and the Communist side appeared to be winning, so (in the name of freedom and liberty of course) Nixon decided to fuck over the entire country. Using the fact that you were a soldier to try and get your opponent to back down rather than use a valid point is bad enough, but using the fact that you were in Vietnam, that's just stupid!

 

[StBishop]

Im about to go into the Military [Army 19D since I was six points off from qualifying for 18X MOS], and it isn't even soldiers whom have tours under their belts. Every recruit I had met during my time at MEPS Dallas was self righteous bastards who would use "Im going to defend this country, therefore I am right!"


Even when our free meal, provided by the god damn hotel that we were staying at for free, was taking a bit too long because the restaurant was packed, I still heard some of the other applicants saying how they should be served first since they were going to be servicemen.



I swear, I better not be the only person that will be in the Military who actually has respect for other people, their views, and beliefs...


That's going to make a shitty 30 years....

Which military. I can't speak for other countries but I know a couple people in Navy, Army and Air Force in Australia who're all good blokes.

I know one douche bag in the Army personally, but he's also intelligent enough to present decent arguments in a debate he feels like actually winning. He trolls a lot though so, you know, he also says shit like that just to piss people off too.

As some people have already said, here in the UK this is a lot rarer so I don't frequently get annoyed by it. But you're right (and that's coming from someone in a military family). I don't care if the person I'm arguing with has a VC (Victoria Cross), if they're wrong they're wrong. Also, when it comes to the example you described, Vietnam?! Vietnam was the most morally questionable war in the 20th Century. Horrible war crimes were committed, mostly against civilians, and for what? Vietnam hadn't even done anything to America, it was just another power play of the Cold War. There was an already existing civil war in Vietnam and the Communist side appeared to be winning, so (in the name of freedom and liberty of course) Nixon decided to fuck over the entire country. Using the fact that you were a soldier to try and get your opponent to back down rather than use a valid point is bad enough, but using the fact that you were in Vietnam, that's just stupid!

It was also a shitty war to be in because the soldiers came home expecting to be treated as war heroes (because that's what they were told would happen) and they were spat on (in a few cases) and basically treated like shit.

It's probably one of the worse things that's happened in recent military history for a number of reasons.