Since when was Being a Man Unattractive?

[LiquidGrape]

This sounds a lot like the "Nice Guy Syndrome".

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml

Read up.

 

[Sleepingzombie]

Well I´ve read through most of the texts here, and one thing that stands out is this (in my mind).The belief that guys or girls are one big group that,I think it rather varies between girls and . . .other girls. In my experiance (just mine not yours, I might be wrong) some girls are assholes and some guys are assholes. Tastes varies, in cultures and between people, therefore what women are like or want varies woman to woman.

Myself I try not to care about the "get in pants thing", I just treat other like I would like to be treated, and I once had the fortune to meet a girl that liked me as I liked her.
So "taste" varies, try to be "cooler" than the jerks and someone with brains and spirit will notice. I beliave that buaty is in how a person is not his or her looks, therefore their morals are atractive

 

[The Austin]

I know what you mean. I have noticed the same thing about Women actually.........
The chicks at my school all cuss, fight, and.... Well, act like guys.

 

[Sleepingzombie]

I filosophise that we chose abit how to be, we can do what others do, conform to steriotypes (or the appropriate term) or be ourselfs.
Though I have some beef with the girls in my school that bully other people just becuace they are "allowed", if a guy would be doing the same "bullying" he would be dealt with. But NO thats "ok", though i hate guy assholes as much as i hate girl assholes

 

[Pegghead]

At this time those girls are probably only going out with those thick cheeseheads because of my "All women are masterminds" theory. In this case women will always go for the moron men because with a little effort they can have them in their grasp catering to their every whim and so it becomes less about dating and love and more abouttaking advantage of the cheap bastard who only went for them to get in their pants. Though don't worry, after some time women cut this out and start looking for guys like you. My advice, wait.

 

[Communist partisan]

Try the nice way as I do if it don't work be a dick and get'em in that way

 

[Eggsnham]

Yeah, I try being nice to girls, but they don't seem to notice, and if they do, they'd rather be going out with a complete douche it seems.

 

[Archemetis]

I completely understand where you're coming from, I too have been chivalrous throughout the majority of my life and received nothing for my efforts.

What make you think people should be rewarded for having good manners?
For me being polite isn't about being given a pat on the head, it's just about being who I am.

You're reading it a bit out of context, I didn't say anything like "I get nothing for it, what's the deal?" or "I at least deserve a thank you!" I went on to write that I was raised that way, I don't expect anything for being good mannered, sure it's nice when people appreciate it but it doesn't happen often in today's society.

I gotta ask, was the rest of my post even read in regards to this?
Because you're response was pretty much the short-hand of what I wrote anyway.

I quoted you after reading that line, then read it all, but the "nothing for my efforts" for me strongly contradicted the rest of your post, so I felt the urge to carry on with what I was gonna write.

Sorry if you felt like I was calling you out, the desired effect was to clarify your stance.
If I came off as a bit of a git it wasn't intential

Ah, right I see, Sorry if I seemed a bit over-defensive in my rebuttal then.
I guess I see what you mean, I completely forgot about the "Nothing for my efforts" part when I was done writing it, had I remembered it I would've added on with something like "Not that I expect anything".

No harm done.

 

[aswiftlytiltingreality]

I feel you...

When those women correction girls reach there 30s they'll realize the mistake, and guys like me and you will be married with kids...

That is a good way to look at it, especially since this applys to me to...

There seams to be a large number of Gentlemen intellectuals on The Escapist...

So this is where you've all been hiding...and why all us girls can only find douchebags.

On a serious note, girls-not all of them anyway-don't pick assholes. Most of us are very picky and tend to choose guys based on how they are as a whole personality wise. No girls in their right minds are going to pick boys who are emotionally stunted and act like jerks 24 hours a day. And if some girls do, that's because they are idiots. And would a good guy really want a girl who is his intellectual inferior? No. Unless all he cares about is looks and then obviously, he's not as great a guy as he thinks he is and is, in all actuality, a douchebag himself.

Chivalry isn't dead, either. It's just that sometimes, it's not completely necessary. Some girls (myself included) just don't think they need every single guy within a ten mile radius opening and closing every door for them.

 

[microwaviblerabbit]

Nice guys finish last is true. This is because that is all they are. Even a reputation as a 'Nice guy' isn't enough.

Chivalry is about being honorable to everyone. The main tenets were things along the lines of 'Don't stab people in the back' and women, children and anyone not fighting are not targets. Translating this into modern terms, holding open doors is not really much, especially if yo make a deal out of it. That defeats the entire purpose. You are being nice to be seen as nice, and thus you are not.

Mutual interest. Something you both do and enjoy. And remember, dating is a learning experience. Also being in the 'friend' zone with women isn't all bad. Friends are the best source to meet new people. One of which may like you....

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

I have no clue. I was a total douche at one point and i actually did get girls out of it. In fact one of the best relationships I've ever had was with another girl who was a total ***** and we kind of fed off of each other's douche baggery. It was really weird. If you've been watching the new season of "Scrubs" we where sort of like Drew and that girl who's a total ***** that I can't remember the name of. It was one of the more memorable ones, though I'm not sure if that's because it was better or just way different.

 

[Acier]

Well you should be chivalrous to all girls, not just ones who you like in "that special way".

and I feel that sometimes it's just as much of girl's faults for not believing in chivalry. But eh.

 

[Zenn3k]

Because woman find it attractive when a guy DOESN'T want to be nice to them.

Its a issue of dominance. Woman in a higher percentage of time than not, want a dominate male in their lives, just like men want a woman who can and will take care of them and their needs (food, sex, etc).

Its likely, that if she left you for a "dick", that the dick gave her a feeling of being a more dominate male than you are, this goes back to basic human instincts for breeding, things beyond our control as they are hard-wires "animal" emotions and feelings and work at an unconscious level.

Within every friendship, there is usually a more dominate person. The person who knows all the good places to go, knows the cool people to talk to, etc. Thats the dominate friend. That also more often than not, the guy between the two friends who has a LIST of girls, while the other guy gets a few here and there, and rarely ones as good as his friend. Woman see those two guys together, figure out which of them is the "Alpha Male" and take interest in him as oppose to the other. Its the same effect.

My advice is to be nice, but also be a dick too and know when to be what and when. Don't be mean or hurtful, but don't put them on a pedestal either. Once a girl knows you value her above ALL else, she can then walk all over you, and the guy you can walk all over, isn't attractive anymore.

I've taken pysch classes, I've talked to woman, and I've talked to "players", and they all tell me the same thing. Just be LESS nice once in awhile.

*rolls eyes*

I like the note of authority in your post, despite having no real evidence to back it up. No research papers, no actual basis for your belief except a half-baked series of pseudo-psychological "facts", and a belief that because you've asked "women" and "players" you must know exactly what's going on.

I wouldn't be surprised if "players" explained their success in terms of being "jerks at the right times", but that's selection bias. You're asking the group you want to analyze to analyze themselves, that's not valid (go talk to a research psychologist, if you'd like confirmation there, or take a statistics class).

So, I hate to tell you, but even if evolutionary psychology were accepted as fact in the psychological fields (rather than being highly debatable) your theory is without foundation. You ignore confounding variables, as well as other possible causal links. It also assumes that all women are the same, which no woman would ever have told you (and I severely doubt one of them would have explained that they chose the "jerk" because he seemed more "dominant").

And, yeah, no, there's no study confirming the "alpha male" thing you claim. And you also misuse the concept of an "alpha male" as used in biology and animal psychology.

To sum up: you've made ridiculous claims without basis in anything even approaching empirical reality, created a posteriori causal argument without the kind of underpinning necessary for it to be logically sound, and you've done it all with an air of authority which makes you sound (at best) like a pompous gasbag, and (at worst) like you honestly don't understand the limitations of your seemingly meager information on the subject (both in terms of psychology and sociology).

If it seems like I'm taking too hard a line here, it's merely because I find statements of "fact" without a basis in real research to be highly questionable, and even a bit irksome. If that counts as flaming, I do apologize.

1: I did not make the assumption all woman are the same, in fact I accounted for the fact they are not in my post.
2: None of what you said changes the fact I'm correct, even if my explanation is poor.
3: My explanation should make sense to the OP, which yours if filled with nearly everything you could find in the dictionary to attempt so show that you're more intelligent on the subject than I, and in the end, becomes a series of sense-less ranting to the average person.
4: Go get laid.

You don't impress me.

 

[Seldon2639]

te="Zenn3k" post="18.170799.4689364"]
1: I did not make the assumption all woman are the same, in fact I accounted for the fact they are not in my post.
2: None of what you said changes the fact I'm correct, even if my explanation is poor.
3: My explanation should make sense to the OP, which yours if filled with nearly everything you could find in the dictionary to attempt so show that you're more intelligent on the subject than I, and in the end, becomes a series of sense-less ranting to the average person.
4: Go get laid.

You don't impress me.[/quote]
1. If I misunderstood, I apologize
2. You don't make yourself correct by claiming you're correct. Simply repeating that it's a "fact" that you're correct doesn't actually alter the very fabric of reality. Believe me, I've often said "the fact is, I'm a millionaire", and it's yet to be true merely by dint of my declaration.
3. I can promise you, I didn't need to consult a dictionary to write my post. And, not for nothing, but the hallmark of a good argument about thing like "science" shouldn't be whether it's tailored for the masses. I thought you were attempting to discuss actual psychological concepts, I apologize for overestimating your actual knowledge and interest in the subjects you write about.
4. I have, and I did it without using your foolhardy "method"

You seem to have mistaken a desire for high-minded discourse for a desire to impress. Sad.

 

[Macgyvercas]

Who the hell picks an "I want to bang you" jerk over a Chivalris Knight in Shining Armor, anyway?!

OP, take my advice. If any girl prefers the former option, she's not worth it. At all.

Because the jerk won't be a clingy, whiny crybaby over everything? The jerk will most likely care about what they look like? I don't get why people condemn women just because they have standards that don't include "lonely nerd".

You don't have to be a nerd to be chivalrous. I've come across loads of men who are not the least bit nerdy and have chivalry to rival that of the Middle Ages (incidently, one of my two favorite time periods). And BTW, chivalry is more about being courtious and respectful, not being a clingy jerk.

The mentality of "I respect women until they don't sleep with me, then they're sluts." Isn't chivalrous, it's quite the opposite by the way it's rather misogynistic.

I don't know what OP is refering to, but the kind of chivalry I was talking about is "I respect women. Period."

 

[Erana]

Those women are not worth your time if they don't appreciate chivalry, is all.

Correction: NO women appreciate chivalry. Their mothers have taught them that if you are so much as being nice to them you are trying to get in their pants while if you are a prick to them they feel that they must work to get in YOUR pants because you obviously don't want them.

I feel you...

When those women correction girls reach there 30s they'll realize the mistake, and guys like me and you will be married with kids...

And no, you won't. I thought this until I got into my 30's and all the women were still running to the assholes, right after leaving an asshole.

I think I'd know better than you-
Being a woman, after all.
Anyway, one of my friends in her 30's was engaged to this man, but left him after he started behaving in unacceptable ways.

Just because you've had bad experiences doesn't mean that you should go around generalizing people and stating your own case as fact.