SkullGirls anyone?

[z121231211]

Do you know how hard it is to make a perfect Z with a stick? That, and if it's not timed PERFECTLY it won't work.

Wait a Z motion? I'll admit that seeing a Z-motion makes absolutely no sense the first time you see it, but it's one of the easiest things to learn. Start at the side, make a quarter circle down, then make a quarter circle back up. You could go to the side, go back to neutral, then do a quarter circle to the side like it's notated but that's extremely inefficient.

360s are the hard inputs, simply because you have to do it extremely fast so you don't jump. Which Skullgirls has a system to help with this.

And the reason they say "Heavy Punch" rather than "R1" is to accommodate for a variety of controllers. Though really that should only confuse you the first time, then once you learn what the default controls are it shouldn't be a problem.

And no, it doesn't require Ninja Fingers. Just practice and muscle memory, a lot of it. There's a reason why people sink so much time into these games, especially practice mode at first.

Though I do agree with you on the grab countering in Skullgirls. You are meant to predict when your opponent is supposed to use it, but the window is a little small so even when you do there's no guarantee.

 

[lapan]

While i'm generally usually interested in fighting games, it isn't out yet on EU PSN and the demo keeps getting corrupted if i try to download it with an US account.

 

[Syzygy23]

Do you know how hard it is to make a perfect Z with a stick? That, and if it's not timed PERFECTLY it won't work.

Wait a Z motion? I'll admit that seeing a Z-motion makes absolutely no sense the first time you see it, but it's one of the easiest things to learn. Start at the side, make a quarter circle down, then make a quarter circle back up. You could go to the side, go back to neutral, then do a quarter circle to the side like it's notated but that's extremely inefficient.

360s are the hard inputs, simply because you have to do it extremely fast so you don't jump. Which Skullgirls has a system to help with this.

And the reason they say "Heavy Punch" rather than "R1" is to accommodate for a variety of controllers. Though really that should only confuse you the first time, then once you learn what the default controls are it shouldn't be a problem.

And no, it doesn't require Ninja Fingers. Just practice and muscle memory, a lot of it. There's a reason why people sink so much time into these games, especially practice mode at first.

Though I do agree with you on the grab countering in Skullgirls. You are meant to predict when your opponent is supposed to use it, but the window is a little small so even when you do there's no guarantee.

Yyyyeah, still going to stick with my Ninja Fingers argument. Have you tried pulling off the Ultimate-Super-Mega special move of the Peacock character? I managed to get it to work ONCE by accident, somehow. No amount of practice so far has made it work again. Also, if it didn't require ninja fingers, why would I need to develop muscle memory for these moves? Who has the time anymore to go through that process? I want to play a game where a bunch of wacky characters punch each other in the face with flashy, awesome, and impossible moves, not take up a second job just so I can quit later in frustration after losing ot that guy spamming hadokens.

As far as homogenizing the names of the buttons to things like HK and LP for the sake of multiple controllers across different systems... Alright, seriously, are the devs THAT lazy? If Rockstar can print out the complete layout and functions of the console specific controllers for THEIR games (not to mention EVERY OTHER 3rd party multiplatform developer) I think the guys who make fighting games can too.

Edit: Goodfellas. That was the move that I couldn't get Peacock to do.

Also, in response to the z-motion thing, if I'm not SUPPOSED to make a z motion, but instead make two backwards quarter circles, then why didn't the instructions just display (say outright, with text) two backwards quarter circles? Seriously, two backwards quarter circles looks NOTHING like a Z! Is that just poor translation or do the devs a secret cthulhu cult who no longer understand the normal human thought process?

 

[The Wykydtron]

-snip-

-snip-

Yeah, I didn't really get into fighting games until SF4 came out. Before then, I kinda played them off and on but wasn't completely serious since I was still a kid of sorts. I sucked at SF4 btw. Couldn't really do more than the basics. Played it a bunch though. Got BlazBlue once Continuum Shift came out because it looked really cool. The tutorial is much more beginner friendly than SF's since it shows you what the combo actually looks like before you attempt it yourself. Makes learning the timing a little easier for the ones where the whole combo falls apart if you start too early or late.

I know the genre is pretty unforgiving to the newbies. Some condescending attitudes from the vets just makes it worse. I'm all for hand holding the new guys. Eventually it'll just stop working and you have to kick out on your own, but nothing wrong with teaching the basics. I'm the kind of person to watch vids online and (attempt to) adapt their tricks into my game. That's probably why I'm better at BB. Of course, not everyone does that, especially if you're not a fan of the genre in the first place.

I probably went off on a little tangent there. Guess all I can say is sorry that the whole thing annoys you so much. It's fun once you become decent at it, but there aren't enough games with good tutorials. Capcom's method is just to give you the buttons and expect you to figure out the rest yourself, which really sucks if you haven't been playing fighters much up till now.

Yeah, not everyone had a truckload of quarters to piss away on trial and error in the arcades as kids. Glad someone here understands.

Skullgirls, however, after spending some time with the demo, seems to have the forumlae perfect. It's more SF than MK, but the training exercises have explained everything to me I need to know about modern fighting games. None of that Canceling bullshit or frame-counting or whatever.

My only complaint is that is seems that a LITTLE bit of ninja-finger power is required for certain moves, and countering a grab is nigh impossible due to the fact that you get maybe a MILLISECOND window of opportunity to perform one.

I wouldn't know about the move inputs since I haven't played the demo myself. If the grab-break mechanics are the same as BlazBlue or Street Fighter, then the timing is more geared towards people who input the throw break by predicting instead of reacting. The BlazBlue timing for a clean throw (not in the middle of a combo) can't be more than half a second. If your mind is ungodly fast then you can probably throw break on reaction, but I doubt more than a handful of people can do it consistently. There are certain tricks in the mechanics of BB and SF to make it easier for the defender, but that's not really what we're here to talk about and I don't know the SkullGirls mechanics anyway.

Edit: Watching a SkullGirls tutorial video now. It is amazing.

I think throw canceling in Skullgirls is meant to be when you both recognise when you can go for the throw so it kinda naturally breaks. Seeing that throw range is literally touching the other character it's not too difficult to pull it off.

The mindset is meant to be "I'll go for the throw" not "right let's counter this guys throw"

I will say when they give you the throw break tutorial I just can't do it three times in row. UMVC3 gave you such a bigger window to throw break. You could see them going for the air throw reset and just reject it... Still possible to do in Skullgirls but air throw resets don't seem to be as widely used as in UMVC3

Oh and to the guy who says to do two quarter circles for the Z motion, if that works thank you so fucking much! My Ace Attorney will never be dropped again in UMVC3.

Why is it that whenever I get talking about fighting games I feel the need to play one?

 

[Zelcor]

Yyyyeah, still going to stick with my Ninja Fingers argument. Have you tried pulling off the Ultimate-Super-Mega special move of the Peacock character? I managed to get it to work ONCE by accident, somehow. No amount of practice so far has made it work again. Also, if it didn't require ninja fingers, why would I need to develop muscle memory for these moves? Who has the time anymore to go through that process? I want to play a game where a bunch of wacky characters punch each other in the face with flashy, awesome, and impossible moves, not take up a second job just so I can quit later in frustration after losing ot that guy spamming hadokens.

As far as homogenizing the names of the buttons to things like HK and LP for the sake of multiple controllers across different systems... Alright, seriously, are the devs THAT lazy? If Rockstar can print out the complete layout and functions of the console specific controllers for THEIR games (not to mention EVERY OTHER 3rd party multiplatform developer) I think the guys who make fighting games can too.

Edit: Goodfellas. That was the move that I couldn't get Peacock to do.

Also, in response to the z-motion thing, if I'm not SUPPOSED to make a z motion, but instead make two backwards quarter circles, then why didn't the instructions just display (say outright, with text) two backwards quarter circles? Seriously, two backwards quarter circles looks NOTHING like a Z! Is that just poor translation or do the devs a secret cthulhu cult who no longer understand the normal human thought process?

Seriously it's skill based learn a extremely basic combo and then go from there it's not that hard. And if you try that and still don't get that far and you feel like you suck at it THEN YOU PROBABLY DO AND IT'S NOT THE GAMES OR THE GENRE'S FAULT

 

[lapan]

Yyyyeah, still going to stick with my Ninja Fingers argument. Have you tried pulling off the Ultimate-Super-Mega special move of the Peacock character? I managed to get it to work ONCE by accident, somehow. No amount of practice so far has made it work again. Also, if it didn't require ninja fingers, why would I need to develop muscle memory for these moves? Who has the time anymore to go through that process? I want to play a game where a bunch of wacky characters punch each other in the face with flashy, awesome, and impossible moves, not take up a second job just so I can quit later in frustration after losing ot that guy spamming hadokens.

As far as homogenizing the names of the buttons to things like HK and LP for the sake of multiple controllers across different systems... Alright, seriously, are the devs THAT lazy? If Rockstar can print out the complete layout and functions of the console specific controllers for THEIR games (not to mention EVERY OTHER 3rd party multiplatform developer) I think the guys who make fighting games can too.

Edit: Goodfellas. That was the move that I couldn't get Peacock to do.

Also, in response to the z-motion thing, if I'm not SUPPOSED to make a z motion, but instead make two backwards quarter circles, then why didn't the instructions just display (say outright, with text) two backwards quarter circles? Seriously, two backwards quarter circles looks NOTHING like a Z! Is that just poor translation or do the devs a secret cthulhu cult who no longer understand the normal human thought process?

I know your pain, i suck at inputing directions/quartercircles in the way the games would like me to, so i usually dont even bother looking at movelists and just try to learn the moves myself, then use those moves i can pull of with high probability.

As to the movelists, the problem is that it's usually customizable by the player. Doesn't excuse not including an option to switch display to the button names if needed though.

 

[Grahav]

My thoughts about the game:

I do know how to play fighters although I am not a tourney enthusiast. I tend to like the designs, moves and personalities of the cast.

This game does a fantastic job in this. The story mode, although short is very cool and sweet for the characters. The art doesn't follow the main western and eastern trends in fighting games in a good way.

The fanservice is curious in this game. Because of the art style and overall theme it gives a different feeling. I really don't know how to explain it. It is funny sometimes and nightmarish (see Double) in others.

Lack of a command list is bad. But not as bad like before the internet.

U$ 15,00 in Brazil where games cost U$ 100,00? Worth it!

 

[Et3rnalLegend64]

-snip-

-snip-

Yeah, I didn't really get into fighting games until SF4 came out. Before then, I kinda played them off and on but wasn't completely serious since I was still a kid of sorts. I sucked at SF4 btw. Couldn't really do more than the basics. Played it a bunch though. Got BlazBlue once Continuum Shift came out because it looked really cool. The tutorial is much more beginner friendly than SF's since it shows you what the combo actually looks like before you attempt it yourself. Makes learning the timing a little easier for the ones where the whole combo falls apart if you start too early or late.

I know the genre is pretty unforgiving to the newbies. Some condescending attitudes from the vets just makes it worse. I'm all for hand holding the new guys. Eventually it'll just stop working and you have to kick out on your own, but nothing wrong with teaching the basics. I'm the kind of person to watch vids online and (attempt to) adapt their tricks into my game. That's probably why I'm better at BB. Of course, not everyone does that, especially if you're not a fan of the genre in the first place.

I probably went off on a little tangent there. Guess all I can say is sorry that the whole thing annoys you so much. It's fun once you become decent at it, but there aren't enough games with good tutorials. Capcom's method is just to give you the buttons and expect you to figure out the rest yourself, which really sucks if you haven't been playing fighters much up till now.

Yeah, not everyone had a truckload of quarters to piss away on trial and error in the arcades as kids. Glad someone here understands.

Skullgirls, however, after spending some time with the demo, seems to have the forumlae perfect. It's more SF than MK, but the training exercises have explained everything to me I need to know about modern fighting games. None of that Canceling bullshit or frame-counting or whatever.

My only complaint is that is seems that a LITTLE bit of ninja-finger power is required for certain moves, and countering a grab is nigh impossible due to the fact that you get maybe a MILLISECOND window of opportunity to perform one.

I wouldn't know about the move inputs since I haven't played the demo myself. If the grab-break mechanics are the same as BlazBlue or Street Fighter, then the timing is more geared towards people who input the throw break by predicting instead of reacting. The BlazBlue timing for a clean throw (not in the middle of a combo) can't be more than half a second. If your mind is ungodly fast then you can probably throw break on reaction, but I doubt more than a handful of people can do it consistently. There are certain tricks in the mechanics of BB and SF to make it easier for the defender, but that's not really what we're here to talk about and I don't know the SkullGirls mechanics anyway.

Edit: Watching a SkullGirls tutorial video now. It is amazing.

I think throw canceling in Skullgirls is meant to be when you both recognise when you can go for the throw so it kinda naturally breaks. Seeing that throw range is literally touching the other character it's not too difficult to pull it off.

The mindset is meant to be "I'll go for the throw" not "right let's counter this guys throw"

I will say when they give you the throw break tutorial I just can't do it three times in row. UMVC3 gave you such a bigger window to throw break. You could see them going for the air throw reset and just reject it... Still possible to do in Skullgirls but air throw resets don't seem to be as widely used as in UMVC3

Oh and to the guy who says to do two quarter circles for the Z motion, if that works thank you so fucking much! My Ace Attorney will never be dropped again in UMVC3.

Why is it that whenever I get talking about fighting games I feel the need to play one?

Yeah, the throws seem more SF4 style than BB style. They come out pretty much instantly. When I played SF4, I'm pretty sure all of my throw breaks were just because we happened to throw each other at the same time. That was before I knew anything about option selects. For BB, I'm sorta kinda trying to break clean throws on reaction, but I'm not quite fast enough yet. I also have to remind myself that they can insert throws into block strings or I forget to break them entirely.
I don't quite feel the need to play fighters when I talk about them, but I do when I go on a video watching streak. I swear I can be a half decent player when I'm on form. It's just that I'm never on form nowadays.

 

[Paragon Fury]

I've considered getting the game, but I don't have the MSP right now.

 

[z121231211]

Edit: Goodfellas. That was the move that I couldn't get Peacock to do.

Also, in response to the z-motion thing, if I'm not SUPPOSED to make a z motion, but instead make two backwards quarter circles, then why didn't the instructions just display (say outright, with text) two backwards quarter circles? Seriously, two backwards quarter circles looks NOTHING like a Z! Is that just poor translation or do the devs a secret cthulhu cult who no longer understand the normal human thought process?

Ok let's put our "This takes practice" mentalities on instead of "It's impossible unless you were born into a clan of Ninjas" mentality.

I'm having a hard time with Goodfellas as well. Be sure you're confident with the motion (try being able to do Peacock's Level 1 super consistently first). Right after grabbing you have to do the motion before Peacock starts kicking the opponent. It takes awhile to get down.

And the Z motion makes sense if you look at it differently. It goes forward, then cuts down, then goes forward again. Oh and thanks for calling just about everyone who plays fighting games inhuman who don't know proper language.

But I guess if you're still playing, you're either having fun with this or you're trying to find every mechanic and small nuisance you can complain about. I'll just assume the former and say keep at it, just change your mentality a little.

 

[Syzygy23]

Edit: Goodfellas. That was the move that I couldn't get Peacock to do.

Also, in response to the z-motion thing, if I'm not SUPPOSED to make a z motion, but instead make two backwards quarter circles, then why didn't the instructions just display (say outright, with text) two backwards quarter circles? Seriously, two backwards quarter circles looks NOTHING like a Z! Is that just poor translation or do the devs a secret cthulhu cult who no longer understand the normal human thought process?

Ok let's put our "This takes practice" mentalities on instead of "It's impossible unless you were born into a clan of Ninjas" mentality.

I'm having a hard time with Goodfellas as well. Be sure you're confident with the motion (try being able to do Peacock's Level 1 super consistently first). Right after grabbing you have to do the motion before Peacock starts kicking the opponent. It takes awhile to get down.

And the Z motion makes sense if you look at it differently. It goes forward, then cuts down, then goes forward again. Oh and thanks for calling just about everyone who plays fighting games inhuman who don't know proper language.

But I guess if you're still playing, you're either having fun with this or you're trying to find every mechanic and small nuisance you can complain about. I'll just assume the former and say keep at it, just change your mentality a little.

Skullgirls has an excellent series of tutorials. The devs truly seem to have thought of everything when t comes to teaching someone who didn't have ready access to an SF cabinet in their youth ever wanted to know.

Except counter-grabbing and pulling off the Goodfellas move. Seriously, fuck grab-counters, took me 30 minutes to get through that lesson and even then it was only because of a cominbation of luck and memorizing the attack patterns of the AI opponent, something which I'm sure people in multiplayer or the AI in the actual game will never do, sort of making the lesson useless.

Otherwise, yeah, Skullgirls is pretty fun, it represents an SF style fighting game done right. Maybe now I can FINALLY have fun with this genre.

 

[z121231211]

I wish they made grab-countering a little easier too. It doesn't need to be Blazblue easy, but a few more frames couldn't hurt?

And I can see what they were going with Goodfellas. It's so fast that you have to commit to it from the time you decide to grab, making it riskier than just an ordinary grab. If you could just confirm into it, it's pretty much free damage that's only as hard to land as a grab.

 

[Smertnik]

The devs truly seem to have thought of everything when it comes to teaching someone who didn't have ready access to an SF cabinet in their youth ever wanted to know.

Not quite, pushblock wasn't included, which I find extremely odd, considering that they bothered with such basic stuff as movement.

Except counter-grabbing and pulling off the Goodfellas move.

The only difficult thing about Goodfellas is the timing. The mechanics couldn't be more straightforward - it's just a grab and a super. Both of which are shown in the tutorial.

 

[RaikuFA]

Edit: Goodfellas. That was the move that I couldn't get Peacock to do.

Also, in response to the z-motion thing, if I'm not SUPPOSED to make a z motion, but instead make two backwards quarter circles, then why didn't the instructions just display (say outright, with text) two backwards quarter circles? Seriously, two backwards quarter circles looks NOTHING like a Z! Is that just poor translation or do the devs a secret cthulhu cult who no longer understand the normal human thought process?

Ok let's put our "This takes practice" mentalities on instead of "It's impossible unless you were born into a clan of Ninjas" mentality.

I'm having a hard time with Goodfellas as well. Be sure you're confident with the motion (try being able to do Peacock's Level 1 super consistently first). Right after grabbing you have to do the motion before Peacock starts kicking the opponent. It takes awhile to get down.

And the Z motion makes sense if you look at it differently. It goes forward, then cuts down, then goes forward again. Oh and thanks for calling just about everyone who plays fighting games inhuman who don't know proper language.

But I guess if you're still playing, you're either having fun with this or you're trying to find every mechanic and small nuisance you can complain about. I'll just assume the former and say keep at it, just change your mentality a little.

Considering I just learned like 5 min ago how to do Z motion because any other time I asked I was dealt with "Don't play fighters if you don't know stuff" "Newcomers have no right to ask questions" and shit like that, I don't blame him for being short about it.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Oh and how come you can't see your opponent's name online? Like was it left out due to time restraints like the movelist was or something? It just seems to be a weird oversight is all...

Also my hatred for Cellebella has only increased. I need to learn what the specs of that command grab super are. Is it unblockable? Cuz my Filia just got lamped by it on incoming and I swear I never touched a button on the way in... /ragequit

Don't even get me started on her anti air bullshit...

Annnnnd i'm back to finding new ways in for my characters... I miss my God Mode Phoenix Wright that's for sure. Air dash into jumping medium punch with Filia gets countered so damn easily. Figured out how to counter the counter with an air throw eventually though XD

I love Valentine but fuck she's hard to get in with. Her air movement is too weird and just straight running at them is the easiest way go get Gregor Samson'd into next week XP

Throws are so good in this game, if you get the choice between trying for a combo or getting the throw, go for the throw... Especially if you're playing (aganist) Valentine. Ground throw ftw!

Oh and that Double assist is evil. If you've ever played against her online you know the one. Fucking super armour all day on that move

 

[Smertnik]

Oh and that Double assist is evil. If you've ever played against her online you know the one. Fucking super armour all day on that move

I'm pretty sure Mike Z stated that the invincibility of the HK Hornet Bomber assist is a mistake.

 

[The Wykydtron]

Oh and that Double assist is evil. If you've ever played against her online you know the one. Fucking super armour all day on that move

I'm pretty Mike Z stated that the invincibility of the HK Hornet Bomber assist is a mistake.

Yeah I supposed as much. It's invincible though? Not just super armour? Ffffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

But how could they miss such an obvious broken tier assist in a cast of 8 characters? Seriously, it makes Peacock untouchable! Lucky not many people use Double anyway, hopefully it stays that way...

Well at least it ain't anywhere near as bad as...

*ahem*

DARK WESKER RISES!

 

[Smertnik]

Yeah I supposed as much. It's invincible though? Not just super armour?

I believe the assist is invincible when Double flies up and down but you can still hit her in the beginning. Don't take my word on this whole issue for it, though (Although I did find <url=http://shoryuken.com/forum/index.php?threads/skullgirls-gd-keepin-it-classy-in-medici.158403/page-39#post-6816956>MikeZ's quote)

 

[Syzygy23]

The devs truly seem to have thought of everything when it comes to teaching someone who didn't have ready access to an SF cabinet in their youth ever wanted to know.

Not quite, pushblock wasn't included, which I find extremely odd, considering that they bothered with such basic stuff as movement.

Except counter-grabbing and pulling off the Goodfellas move.

The only difficult thing about Goodfellas is the timing. The mechanics couldn't be more straightforward - it's just a grab and a super. Both of which are shown in the tutorial.

Exactly. Timing. It's supposed to be a simple grab followed by a backwards quarter circle and a WP + SK (LP + SK? Dunno if the weakest punch is called Weak Punch or Low Punch. For me, it's Square + R1)

I've done it 4 times now, in practice, out of maybe 30 attempts. There is a VERY narrow window of opportunity that you HAVE to do that backwards quarter circle + Square + R1. So, for Goodfellas at least, ninja fingers.

Everything else seems to work fine.

EDIT: Fuck Ms. Fortune. Even on sleepwalk she gets hit priority over EVERYONE.

 

[RaikuFA]

The devs truly seem to have thought of everything when it comes to teaching someone who didn't have ready access to an SF cabinet in their youth ever wanted to know.

Not quite, pushblock wasn't included, which I find extremely odd, considering that they bothered with such basic stuff as movement.

Except counter-grabbing and pulling off the Goodfellas move.

The only difficult thing about Goodfellas is the timing. The mechanics couldn't be more straightforward - it's just a grab and a super. Both of which are shown in the tutorial.

Exactly. Timing. It's supposed to be a simple grab followed by a backwards quarter circle and a WP + SK (LP + SK? Dunno if the weakest punch is called Weak Punch or Low Punch. For me, it's Square + R1)

I've done it 4 times now, in practice, out of maybe 30 attempts. There is a VERY narrow window of opportunity that you HAVE to do that backwards quarter circle + Square + R1. So, for Goodfellas at least, ninja fingers.

Everything else seems to work fine.

EDIT: Fuck Ms. Fortune. Even on sleepwalk she gets hit priority over EVERYONE.

I can't even get a single hit in on sleepwalk.