'Slut' Parade

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Steppin Razor

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Guy Jackson said:
As for the orgasm being involuntary, I suggest you see my previous reply on that subject.
Look up the Autonomic Nervous System and then get back to us when you have a basic understanding of what orgasms being autonomic means. Until then, don't comment. All you're doing is proving that you know fuck all about anything.

brownstudies said:
Young people - particularly women - need to realise that they have a responsibility to themselves to keep safe. No, a man should never be excused from assaulting you because you were dressed like you were "asking for it", or whatever ridiculous excuse he might try to use. But that doesn't change the fact that a women dressed in a provocative manner is more likely to be a target than a woman who isn't. It's unfair, but it's the truth, and unfortunately there isn't really a way of stopping it from being the truth.
No, it's not actually. It's a baseless argument that only serves to shift some of the blame to the victim. Go back through this thread and you'll see numerous scientific studies being cited that all come to the same conclusion - women raped because they were wearing slutty clothing make up a minimal amount of rape victims.
 

conflictofinterests

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Micalas said:
JoJoDeathunter said:
Nope, I don't see why it should be socially acceptable for men to sleep around, yet if a women does they're a "slut" or a "slag".
Well when it comes down to it, women really do hold all of the cards when it comes to sex. We can go tit for tat but a woman is much more likely to turn down a man's advances than vice-verse. Another thing to consider is how much more work it takes to be a "man-whore" than to be a "slut."

To be a "man-whore" you need to look somewhat decent, be interesting enough to catch someone's eye, and money most of the time.

What do you need to be a "slut?" A vagina and the word yes somewhere in your vocabulary.
This brings to mind a lesson I recently had in my linguistics class. It was all about the uselessness of the word "no" and the power dynamics inherent in it. It gave three examples as follows:


1) A woman being propositioned by a man.

In this case, in most Western cultural settings, the only "appropriate" response for a woman is "no," even if she would indeed like to have sex with this man. If she says yes, then she is a slut, and there are many negative connotations with that. If she says no, and means no, then she will spend the rest of the encounter, if not the rest of her time around this male, repeating herself, because there are a number of "virtuous" women who say no, but mean yes.


2) A man being propositioned

The main example brought up was that of "gay terror," that a man whose place was to proposition, when put in the position of answerer (by a homosexual propositioning him) would be so confused, and so out of place, that subsequent violent rage (potentially resulting in the murder of the gay man) is seen as unavoidable, and therefore appropriates a reduction in sentence for connected crimes committed.
Apparently during the "free love" years, when women were again trying to redefine notions of sexuality and power, groups of women would stand on streets and catcall men (as one sees men do occasionally nowadays) with a result that men would generally become extremely agitated.

3) BDSM

The lecture went on to talk about in a BDSM relationship, where all relationships of power and social norms are mutable, "no" is a useless safeword. Especially when roleplaying domination and submission, the submissive is supposed to cry "no" a number of times, and this signifies that the dominant is performing correctly.
 

Epic Fail 1977

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Hmm, while I typed that last post I got quite a few replies, most of which have descended into simple insults - the last refuge of a person who's argument has failed. I'll reply to the answers that convey something beyond simple malice. Give me a minute.
 

JonnWood

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Kahunaburger said:
DisturbiaWolf13 said:
Wow, The Escapist has surprised me again. I knew this place was a bit of a sausage fest but I never thought we had this much sexism :-/
Clearly you haven't been reading the Brink or Other M threads haha.
I'd really, really like to know why some people are so obsessed with getting their parkour gunwoman on.
 

JonnWood

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Jul 16, 2008
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Guy Jackson said:
That's extremely insulting of you. I suggested no such thing. In fact I explicitly stated that I do not condone rape under any circumstances, and not anywhere did I suggest that women bring rape on themselves. What I did say is that women are fucked up. These seem like two very different statements to me. Don't put words in my mouth that were never there.
I was responding to implications and subtext.

As for the orgasm being involuntary, I suggest you see my previous reply on that subject.

As for the women being traumatized by their intellectual denial of sex and the orgasm resulting from it: if the orgasm is a purely physical and involuntary thing (like bleeding) then why the trauma? Where's the conflict?
The trauma arises from the conflict.

Guy Jackson said:
So you're saying that she (or anyone) would dress up even if nobody were there to see it?
I dunno. Ask her. And no, I'm not saying that.

You're saying that if if a girl was lost at birth and raised by wolves in the wild, she'd still like to dress up (assuming she found some dresses lying around somewhere)?
Nice try with the derail. We are specifically talking about women who do like to dress up, and why. I don't know much about feral children and their sartorial preferences, even if it were relevant.
 

LiquidGrape

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Guy Jackson said:
Hmm, while I typed that last post I got quite a few replies, most of which have descended into simple insults - the last refuge of a person who's argument has failed.
That's funny. I could say the same about lifting statistics out of the air.
 

conflictofinterests

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Guy Jackson said:
if the orgasm is a purely physical and involuntary thing (like bleeding) then why the trauma? Where's the conflict?
There's no shame the first time a girl gets her period? She thinks she's wetting herself, then she finds this pool of blood in her panties?

Just because something is autonomic doesn't mean we don't attach value and emotions to it.
 

Dark Knifer

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I can see what they are getting at but I was under the impression the word slut was more behaviour rather then appearance. Anyway, is one police officer's stupid thinking worth getting really angry at? Just one guy who was really stupid doesn't seem like enough motivation to start up a huge protest. If it was someone in a significant position sure but one cop?
 

Epic Fail 1977

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JonnWood said:
Guy Jackson said:
I'm not saying it's about me/men, I'm saying it's because of me/men. Women feel good when they look good because men like them when they look good. That's not the same as saying that women dress up purely to attract the attention of men. I don't see why the distinction is so hard to grasp.
Counterpoint: asexuals and lesbians. I'm a dude who feels better about himself when he dresses up, and as far as I can tell it has nothing to do with whether girls like it. I don't see why that couldn't be the case with women.
I'm not sure how either you or lesbians are counterpoints. I didn't say that looking good was something that only heterosexual women like. Also, the statement "women are fucked up" is obviously a sweeping generalisation. There will be counterexamples on both sides.

Asexuals are a pretty tiny minority (less than 1%). You might as well bring psychopaths and sociopaths into the argument.

JonnWood said:
I have a pretty average libido I think; I'm just more honest about it than most guys (who have been conditioned, in conversations like this one, to lie about this stuff).
Ah, yes, that old chestnut. "Everyone has the same opinions as me, they just won't admit it!" "The lurkers support me in email!" "The public knows 9/11 was a conspiracy!"
I qualified my statement with "I think". Last time I checked, there was no machine that rates your libido out of 10 and tells you what percentile of the population you fall within.
 

conflictofinterests

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Dark Knifer said:
I can see what they are getting at but I was under the impression the word slut was more behaviour rather then appearance. Anyway, is one police officer's stupid thinking worth getting really angry at? Just one guy who was really stupid doesn't seem like enough motivation to start up a huge protest. If it was someone in a significant position sure but one cop?
It's not just the cop. His sentiments are quite common. They started up protests to challenge this pervasive concept. Also, I believe the protests were going on before he made that statement... But I could be wrong.
 

JonnWood

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Guy Jackson said:
AgentNein said:
rape fantasies and rape role play are actually very different than being fucking raped. I'm sure you're smart enough to understand that.
Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation tends to be the right one.

The facts:
1) 50% of women fantasise about rape.
2) 50% of women orgasm more often than not during voluntary sex.
3) 25% of women orgasm during rape. Note that 50% multiplied by 50% is 25%.


So you're trying to mollify a sexual assault using math.

SO CREEPY.

SO VERY CREEPY.
 

Dags90

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Oct 27, 2009
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Guy Jackson said:
Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation tends to be the right one.

The facts:
1) 50% of women fantasise about rape.
2) 50% of women orgasm more often than not during voluntary sex.
3) 25% of women orgasm during rape. Note that 50% multiplied by 50% is 25%.
Your math doesn't add up. "50% of women orgasm more often then[sic] not" could be as low as just over 25% chance of orgasm during intercourse.
 

JonnWood

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conflictofinterests said:
Apparently during the "free love" years, when women were again trying to redefine notions of sexuality and power, groups of women would stand on streets and catcall men (as one sees men do occasionally nowadays) with a result that men would generally become extremely agitated.
Speaking as a guy who's been subject to sexual harassment, I just winced.
 

conflictofinterests

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Guy Jackson said:
Asexuals are a pretty tiny minority (less than 1%). You might as well bring psychopaths and sociopaths into the argument.
I am somewhat offended. D: Just because I don't find the human body sexually attractive, I'm equated to psychopaths and sociopaths? (It's easier to say I'm clinically fetishistic and bisexual than to explain that I don't find people sexually attractive but I do have a libido (for my fetishes).
 

Epic Fail 1977

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LiquidGrape said:
Guy Jackson said:
Hmm, while I typed that last post I got quite a few replies, most of which have descended into simple insults - the last refuge of a person who's argument has failed.
That's funny. I could say the same about lifting statistics out of the air.
This stuff is easy to find. IIRC the two 50% stats are right there on Wikipedia, with the relevant studies linked. Just google them. The 25% one was from an article I read. I can't remember where that was, so I just did a quick google instead and found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090901162513AA8s1lj (see the bottom of the answer for the source).
 

John Funk

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Victim blaming is abhorrent and anyone who does it should feel thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
 

Epic Fail 1977

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conflictofinterests said:
Guy Jackson said:
Asexuals are a pretty tiny minority (less than 1%). You might as well bring psychopaths and sociopaths into the argument.
I am somewhat offended. D: Just because I don't find the human body sexually attractive, I'm equated to psychopaths and sociopaths? (It's easier to say I'm clinically fetishistic and bisexual than to explain that I don't find people sexually attractive but I do have a libido (for my fetishes).
You're equated to sociopath and psychopaths in statistical significance. Jeezus.
 

conflictofinterests

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JonnWood said:
conflictofinterests said:
The main example brought up was that of "gay terror," that a man whose place was to proposition, when put in the position of answerer (by a homosexual propositioning him) would be so confused, and so out of place, that subsequent violent rage (potentially resulting in the murder of the gay man) is seen as unavoidable, and therefore appropriates a reduction in sentence for connected crimes committed.
Apparently during the "free love" years, when women were again trying to redefine notions of sexuality and power, groups of women would stand on streets and catcall men (as one sees men do occasionally nowadays) with a result that men would generally become extremely agitated.
Speaking as a guy who's been subject to sexual harassment, I just winced.
I'm sorry if I was too insensitive x_x Not sure how to adjust the post without loosing the point
 

JonnWood

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John Funk said:
Victim blaming is abhorrent and anyone who does it should feel thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
Unless, of course, they're someone who apparently lacks all self-awareness.

I mean, hypothetically. Not like there's one of those people in this thread, or anything.

/not talking about you