'Slut' Parade

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I think it is about time someone condemns these women for dressing like that as it is not acceptable and the majority of the world would agree with me on that point.

That is a huge assumption you are making. Why do you care how someone dresses? How does it effect you or anyone else? Oh wait. It doesn't.

It tells you a huge amount about the person and what they are like. Being a slut is not a good or healthy thing to be, hence the negative connotation.

Why isn't it good? Is there something bad about sexuality? What is it? In practical, actual demonstrable terms. How does sex make you a worse person?

As a shrink .

You are dodging the question. Why is having multiple sexual partners bad?

 

[Terminal Blue]

This stuff is easy to find. IIRC the two 50% stats are right there on Wikipedia, with the relevant studies linked. Just google them. The 25% one was from an article I read. I can't remember where that was, so I just did a quick google instead and found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090901162513AA8s1lj (see the bottom of the answer for the source).

Right, this is a start..

However, it's not a reference. A reference is an original study with a critically produced sample and some degree of analysis. This is a random number on the internet.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

Did you know that some paralyzed women who have no sensation below the waist can still orgasm even though they can't feel it? It's a physical reaction and nothing more.

Surely that fact (which I didn't know) is fantastic support for my stance: that the orgasm is induced primarily by mental stimulation.

 

[zoulza]

I really love how people keep on posting the same "but it's a perfectly reasonable bit of advice to lower your chances of getting raped!" argument over and over again, despite several people having already posted studies proving that this "fact" is grade A bullshit. Seriously, guys, how provocatively you are dressed has nothing to do with how likely you are to get raped. As has been pointed out again and again, most women are raped by men whom they know and trust. How many times do we have to say it to get it through your thick skulls!?

By your logic, any woman with male friends is just begging to get raped.

 

[lacktheknack]

I kind of get the feeling that they're overdoing it. Being able to dress how you want: OK. Proud to be a slut: Wat.

 

[conflictofinterests]

Then I think you're fairly shallow for needing apparel to derive confidence from, rather than taking it from - for example - your achievements, mentality or natural physical appearance.

Thanks, but I have plenty of pride and self-confidence deriving from my achievements and mentality. That doesn't mean I can't sometimes derive the same from clothing as well as from those other sources. Also, natural physical appearance is hardly entirely divorced from clothing. The clothing is used to highlight what is already there.

See? That's exactly what I'm talking about. You dress to kill because it makes you feel good and gives you confidence in yourself, and you don't even realise why it does! Sooo fucked up.

Without you offering your explanation of the deep lingering reasons behind my personal psyche (so deep and lingering, apparently, that I am unaware of them while you, a stranger on the internet, know exactly how my mind works) I find this response difficult to reply to. But given this post:

So you're saying that she (or anyone) would dress up even if nobody were there to see it?

and also this:

Women feel good when they look good because men like them when they look good.

I'm guessing that you're saying that my belief that I dress up purely to feel good in myself is in fact completely wrong, and my feeling good stems only from my desire to please men.

Well, guess what? I do dress up when nobody is there to see it. I put on my favourite outfits and do my hair and paint my nails and then sit inside on the internet all day. It makes me feel nice to look nice, end of story.

In addition, even when I do dress up when I go out, it's never to impress men. It might be because I've been having a tough time and could do with feeling good about myself, or it might be because the clothes are new and I want to try them out, or it might be a special occasion and I consider it appropriate. I'm not at all concerned about impressing men in any of these situations - in fact, I deal with attention and flirtation very poorly, and it makes me feel uncomfortable for the rest of the day. In the latter situation in particular, attention from men would be the last thing I want. If I've dressed up for a friend's birthday party, I don't want to be chatted up, I want to spend time with my friend. But I dress up anyway because special occasions deserve special clothes.

Jesus, I'm getting so much deja-vu off of this! I think this sums up the vast majority of pro and con stances around feminism.

 

[Steppin Razor]

This stuff is easy to find. IIRC the two 50% stats are right there on Wikipedia, with the relevant studies linked. Just google them. The 25% one was from an article I read. I can't remember where that was, so I just did a quick google instead and found this: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090901162513AA8s1lj (see the bottom of the answer for the source).

This totally doesn't look anything at all like a case of "I dropped these statistics randomly and can't back them up".

For your information, that link you posted doesn't actually say anything at all about 25% of rape victims orgasming, and neither do any of the links provided there, either. What is provided is a comment that cites the Journal of Forensic Medicine that states:

Depending upon the study cited, between 5% to almost 21% of the rape victims responding to the researchers' surveys reported significant sexual arousal or orgasm during the attack. The researchers uniformly agree that whatever the reported percentages are that they are most likely less than the actual percentage because the emotional pain and embarrassment usually felt by a woman that experiences sexual response during a sexual assault would lead them to not admit that it happened. Anecdotal evidence supplied by counselors and therapists supports the conclusion that while orgasm during a rape might not be very common, it is hardly unheard of and is something that they have to be prepared to deal with when treating their clients.

Note that a range of 5-21% is rather large. Averaging it out across all the various studies would result in a statistic more around the 10-15% mark.

 

[zombieeater6000]

lol i'd hold up a sign saying how much next to them as their protesting

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

I do dress up when nobody is there to see it.

And why do you think you do that? Why do you think it makes you feel good to know that you look good? I'm not going to explain it again, either read back through my posts or just have a think, or even offer some alternative reason. I'm not asking whether it makes you feel good, I'm asking why.

 

[John Funk]

Did you know that some paralyzed women who have no sensation below the waist can still orgasm even though they can't feel it? It's a physical reaction and nothing more.

Surely that fact (which I didn't know) is fantastic support for my stance: that the orgasm is induced primarily by mental stimulation.

Not really, no. Anyway, I'm done in this thread.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

Note that a range of 5-21% is rather large. Averaging it out across all the various studies would result in a statistic more around the 10-15% mark.

Not after you factor in that (according to what I've read on the topic) most psychologists believe the real number is likely double what the victims admit to because this is something most people would be ashamed to admit to, even in an anonymous survey.

10-15% = 12.5%. Doubled, that's 25%, which coincidentally enough was the (estimated "real") number in the other study I read.

 

[lacktheknack]

rape fantasies and rape role play are actually very different than being fucking raped. I'm sure you're smart enough to understand that.

Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation tends to be the right one.

The facts:
1) 50% of women fantasise about rape.
2) 50% of women orgasm more often than not during voluntary sex.
3) 25% of women orgasm during rape. Note that 50% multiplied by 50% is 25%.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/wikipedian_protester.png

Especially with such perfect numbers. Did you know that 83% of statistics are made up off the top of someone's headSource: The top of my head.? Especially when they wish to prove a point.

That being said, trying to make the stance that some sexual assault is OK IS PROFOUNDLY AND NAUSEATINGLY SICK.

 

[Epic Fail 1977]

Did you know that some paralyzed women who have no sensation below the waist can still orgasm even though they can't feel it? It's a physical reaction and nothing more.

Surely that fact (which I didn't know) is fantastic support for my stance: that the orgasm is induced primarily by mental stimulation.

Not really, no. Anyway, I'm done in this thread.

Wow. Just, wow.

 

[2xDouble]

Imagine the outcry when people start raping women who don't dress provocatively... or when men start getting raped.

...yeah.

 

[AgentNein]

rape fantasies and rape role play are actually very different than being fucking raped. I'm sure you're smart enough to understand that.

Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation tends to be the right one.

The facts:
1) 50% of women fantasise about rape.
2) 50% of women orgasm more often than not during voluntary sex.
3) 25% of women orgasm during rape. Note that 50% multiplied by 50% is 25%.

Occam's razor only works when you look at something with all available evidence and studies at your disposal. Something tells me your two (unsourced) percentages aren't all the information to be had on this issue.

 

[conflictofinterests]

I really love how people keep on posting the same "but it's a perfectly reasonable bit of advice to lower your chances of getting raped!" argument over and over again, despite several people having already posted studies proving that this "fact" is grade A bullshit. Seriously, guys, how provocatively you are dressed has nothing to do with how likely you are to get raped. As has been pointed out again and again, most women are raped by men whom they know and trust. How many times do we have to say it to get it through your thick skulls!?

By your logic, any woman with male friends is just begging to get raped.

Oh no, there are plenty of acquaintance and familial rape cases too. A woman ought not go any place where any man might be. Oh wait! Women can rape too! I should become a hermit and never go near another human being again!

 

[Kahunaburger]

Did you know that some paralyzed women who have no sensation below the waist can still orgasm even though they can't feel it? It's a physical reaction and nothing more.

Surely that fact (which I didn't know) is fantastic support for my stance: that the orgasm is induced primarily by mental stimulation.

Not really, no. Anyway, I'm done in this thread.

Wow. Just, wow.

So you're trying to cover the numbers you made up by making up more numbers? Wow. Just, wow.

Also, the fact that you appear to be conflating arousal and orgasm, combined with other assumptions you appear to be making about the possibility of orgasm through penetrative-only sex, indicates to me that you don't have a lot of personal experience re: female orgasms.

 

[Steppin Razor]

Note that a range of 5-21% is rather large. Averaging it out across all the various studies would result in a statistic more around the 10-15% mark.

Not after you factor in that (according to what I've read on the topic) most psychologists believe the real number is likely double what the victims admit to because this is something most people would be ashamed to admit to, even in an anonymous survey.

10-15% = 12.5%. Doubled, that's 25%, which coincidentally enough was the (estimated "real") number in the other study I read.

The per centage of rape victims who have orgasmed is almost certain to be higher than the reported amount, but source your claim that it is double or keep quiet. Unsubstantiated claims results in you looking like you're full of shit.

Edit
Also, the evidence provided by the Journal of Forensic Medicine doesn't state what amount of people orgasmed and what amount expererienced "significant sexual arousal". So again, the per centage has to be lowered to factor in the cases where orgasms did not happen.

Wow. Just, wow.

Allow me to put this back at you - wow. Just, wow. It's called the autonomous nervous sytem. Look it up, then you can comment on orgasms.

 

[zoulza]

Come on now, anyone claiming that a woman orgasming during rape is proof that she enjoyed it is obviously just a troll. Let it go, you guys.