Smart-A$$ to authority

[ParanoidAndroid]

I have to laugh at the quotation marks around the word authority, in the original opening post. Implying that those who wield the law are not proper authority is silly because they most certainly are. Also, judging the situation from your own personal experiences not only harms your ability to properly analyze it but will only make you come off as a douche.

Then again, you were being a massive one.

Unless you're an officer with functioning knowledge of procedure or have past experience attempting to apprehend an armed suspect, it's going to be very difficult to judge what, exactly, constitutes overkill. This situation reminds me of when I was in O'Hare and my flight was delayed for about thirty minutes. Most people bitched and moaned, but, really, there's no use to it. You will still be waiting for that airplane and I guarantee that the personnel remembered those of us who took it in good grace.

You had a long wait and that can be frustrating, but, the reason for the wait was a good one(Much like the delays planes or trains make to ensure safety and success of passangers and landings). You're just speaking from ignorance and, quite honestly, strike me as someone who goes against authority because it makes you rebellious.

I treat authority figures with respect. They've been given their positions through hard work or have proved their worth. No amount of resentment from me or anyone else is going to change that they went through what they needed to before they hit the desk or streets.

Respect your local police force and it will be better in the long run, for you.

There is usually a reason a flight is delayed, the taxi broke down, weather is bad, disorderly passenger, runway is backed up. This is more akin to the pilot not letting people on the plane because he doesn't want them to hear him taking a shit, but he still takes a webcam with him to the bathroom.

I speak out because when people don't get questioned they do what ever they want, usually to the detriment of those around them. If the situation was dangerous they should had cleared the street.

The reason they created a perimeter was likely due to a dangerous aspect of the suspect. They were worried about possible scenarios that they'd likely not share with the public. The police in my area join the force to keep people safe and uphold the law, so I've never had anything but good interaction with them.

There's a difference between speaking out and being a loudmouth. There is absolutely no advantage to being the second. In being a loudmouth, one tends to completely defeat any point they may have been able to have.

Respect doesn't necessarily mean being silent.

If a perimeter was necessary they should had cleared the street. Where they told us it is safe is at least 40 feet closer than my house. My house also has fences and walls, across the street just had a nice view of the action in the upstairs window.

I dont buy your story at all. If you were actually mouthing off to a cop especially in a situation like that you would have been taken down and arrested. With that many cops they would not ignore you breaking the law.

No laws broken I can legally sit where they say it's "safe" and ask them if they're going to go get doughnuts to bring me one.

Well, I try to treat people with respect. How would you like it if someone came up to you while you were trying to do your job and started being a complete dick?

When I take their computer to fix something they did to it they usually are. That's kind of what happens when shit doesn't work right.

Do you enjoy it when people treat you like that? Does it make your job any easier?

Actually Yes, people who can vent usually will admit what they did to screw up their machine, and that really helps with fixing a computer.

Congratulations. You have bested me.

 

[Nemesis729]

Well you're a complete and total asshole to start, Seriously some of these guys were probably worried for their lives and you were sitting there like a little kid making remarks. Obviously nothing would've happened if you went into your house but you could have sucked it up and acted like an adult instead of whining and trying to look cool by talking about weapons. Really if I was there I probably would have beat the hell out of you for being such a disrespectful little *****

 

[gallaetha_matt]

I'm pretty sure most coppers are decent people who do a hard job. Regardless of how you feel about the police, I'm pretty sure they probably have to dodge more puke and drunken haymakers than you have to in a day (unless you live in the American south in which case I've just described a typical Christmas).

But that doesn't mean that every police officer deserves a 'yes sir, no sir, thank you sir, up my bum sir' every time you see them. Police officers like most people make mistakes, abuse their authority and break the law. I've met awesome police officers who do their jobs the best they can and treat people fairly, on the other hand I've been detained by the police for a day and a half because I matched a description of someone else. There are cops out there who'll let you off with a warning when you're going ten over the speed limit in an area with no clear speed signs. There are cops that'll fine you for having a broken tail light. There are police that stand by and do their jobs stoically while drunken arseholes scream in their faces, there are police that will tazer you and smash your head in with a club for trying to film them at a peaceful protest.

You can't say 'fuck da police' or 'but they're the AUTHORITIES and that's the LAW' on this. It works both ways. All you can do is let them do their jobs and do your best to stand up for your rights, legally, if they're infringed. I, like the OP, have been stopped and searched for matching a description a few times too. When they tell me why it's usually for a shit crime like indecent exposure (the aforementioned day and a half in jail) or suspicion of terrorism (I had a backpack full of dirty clothes at a train station, embarassing). So I can sympathise with wanting to mouth off at the police when they stop you unnessecarily.

From the way the OP describes it, this sounds like a total bureaucratic fuck up on the cops end. It's as if they've gone to serve a warrant on someone who may or may not be armed (remember the OP's post described that they didn't know this for sure) and some bureaucrat at the station, who may or may not have the mayor on his ass, kept pushing for more and more officers to stand by on the scene.

Remember as well, this was whole situation looks like it was caused by a guy skipping out on an arrest warrant. I'm going to go with the old stand by here - how many rapes, murders and thefts were going on while a bunch of coppers were standing around blocking off a road? How many burglaries were still unsolved at the time?

Yes the OP's actions didn't help anybody. Yes he probably could've been a little more respectful. But have circumstances beyond your control ever delayed you from getting home from a tough day at work? If so they you can probably imagine the frustration here. Especially since this sitaution looked like, as I said before, a bureaucratic fuck up.

And hell, there were probably police officers there just as pissed off about this situation as the OP.

The solution is not to be Lawful Good or Chaotic Evil, just be Neutral. Keep cool, watch some movies, wait to get back in your house. But then it's easy for me to say that because I'm sitting an ocean away from the situation.

TL;DR: Coppers do a hard job but the uniform doesn't entitle them to any special treatment. They're just ordinary people. OP sounds like he was on the receiving end of police stupidity in this case, his comments weren't justified but I understand where they came from.

 

[DoubleTime]

Dude, seriously, this is why the Portland police are so edgy around people. snip.

The Portland police are edgy because the gang in town is known to kill cops, this is Eugene.

Whoops, didn't know there was a Voodoo in Eugene. It makes sense though, especially with their recent remodel/expansion.

Regardless, it still doesn't make their job easier. At the very least being polite gives them one less person to have to worry about whether they're going to fly off the handle.

And yes, I'm aware you can be polite and be a complete nut-job, it's just basic psychology people make judgments based on what they can see rather than second guessing all the time. Those people we call paranoid.

 

[DanielDeFig]

I don't get the point of this thread.
But what we can all take away from this story is that we should all continue to be as kind and polite to people who work in jobs that consistently involve having to deal with unhappy people (anything from store clerk, to customer service, to Police), as they have to deal with enough crap without us making it worse.
OP here seems to be part of the source for that crap, and should really take said lesson to heart, instead of being part of the problem.

EDIT:
To answer the "Question":
Do I respect authority by virtue of being authority? No.
Do I respect people by virtue of being People? Yes.

 

[Catechumen]

The OP has a point. Little harm could actually have occured had he been allowed to return home, and a crowd of police in attendance on a single fugitive is certainly a waste of time and money. It has been said here that the cops are human, but newswise is also human, and spending three hours in the cold, with his house in sight, must have been a real trial. In my country the police are lazy, corrupt and inflated with self-importance; I am sure the same applies in America. If the OP wished to warm himself by being a 'smart-ass', that is an understandable reaction to an infuriating situation.

 

[Sparcrypt]

I always follow police instruction, I backed up to the curb when they told me too. Fortunate for me I still have freedom of speech in this country and can publicly ***** about an ass in a suit keeping me out of my home.

I love how you have no idea whatsoever what freedom of speech actually means.

 

[Viptorian]

There is usually a reason a flight is delayed, the taxi broke down, weather is bad, disorderly passenger, runway is backed up. This is more akin to the pilot not letting people on the plane because he doesn't want them to hear him taking a shit, but he still takes a webcam with him to the bathroom.

That analogy doesn't work at all. You know what does?

It's akin to airport security not letting you get on your plane because there is a guy with a gun on a plane two gates down from you. No, you're not in immediate danger - yet - but you could be at some point.

You don't have to respect the cops, but they're still doing it for your safety, their safety, and the safety of the public at large. In the end, the safety of the masses is more important than your perceived right to go home and lounge.

You're a grown man (from the sounds of it, by age alone), so grow up and learn to deal with minor inconveniences. I have news for you: many, many more are coming.

 

[Yokai]

Kind of a mistake what you did, especially dealing with Portland cops, as they're rather more trigger-and-truncheon-happy than most. I would've left the area and got a cup of coffee rather than standing around trying to bother them. Truth is, cops will pretty much never back down or change their minds based on what you do, because they know they're armed and can do basically whatever they want, at least in the immediate situation.

As for me, my run-ins with the police have been pretty minor. The last time was when me and a few friends had jumped a fence to go swimming in an outdoor pool in the middle of the night. A police car rolled up after an hour or so and they told us to clear out, and we figured well, yeah, we're technically trespassing here, so we got our stuff and left. They weren't rude or obstructive, they didn't try to search us, they just told us to clean up the beer bottles and go home.

Funnily enough, one of my friends asked them why they were being so casual about it, and they said that their patrol basically consisted of driving by this pool twice a night and removing the drunk twentysomethings. They were surprisingly good-natured about the whole thing and said that if they actually bothered to arrest or fine everyone they kicked out of the pool they'd be buried in paperwork forever. All in all, it was probably the most pleasant experience one could have with police officers as the opposition. Although I have a feeling these guys were the exception to the rule--I also live in Portland, where cops are charged with road rage and people have been forcibly searched at gunpoint on the basis of carrying a large backpack while African-American.

 

[maxmanrules]

Yesterday I come strolling home from a long day of dealing with over 500 kids jacked up on Halloween candy to find my street being blocked off by my local police dept. What happened apparently while attempting to serve a warrant for arrest the man they were looking for decided to hide in the attic, because that worked so well for Anne Frank, and because the police did not know if he was armed or not they decided to play it "safe".

Now the reason I critique is because while blocking off car traffic, presumably to clear the road for doughnut runs, they didn't stop foot traffic. For my safety they wouldn't let me enter my house because the house on the other side of my neighbors duplex is where the suspect was hiding out. I attempted to explain, rather loudly I'll admit, that if the suspect is armed it is most likely a handgun loaded with hollow point rounds and that being the case I would be perfectly safe in my home where there is a whole house between the perps place and my own instead of sitting on the side walk across the street where all there is is a single wall to protect all of us neighbors lined up waiting. After that tirade they made sit down on the side walk across the street from my house and in protest I immediately took to smart-assed comments to vocalize my take on the situation.

I believe the entire police force was on hand for this, well over 40 uniformed cops and an entire swat team of 19 wearing military issue combat armor armed with AR-15s, as well as at least 9 other cops and 3 negotiators in plain cloths, who had put on vests. This stand off had apparently been going on since 3:30 and when I arrived at 4:30 cops were still arriving. So I said the first thing that came to mind.

"There must have been a line at Voodoo Doughnuts. Can you guys give me a bacon maple bar? All my snacks are inside my place."

After awhile I realized I had my iPad with me so I started watching movies, as loudly as it would go. This prompted more than a few upset stairs from the guy standing around doing nothing so I said "I could be inside being quiet" after a while "just tear gas his ass I'm cold", later "if you need a flash bang I've got potassium chloride, aluminum powder, and magnesium flakes in my garage"

I made many more comments during the event, got some laughs from the onlookers. Regardless, when the whole thing was over, (the guy gave up, and came down), the SWAT negotiator came walking out (before the perp) and I said "What they didn't have a jelly filled for you, well make sure to pick up a bacon maple bar for me on your way back."

The negotiator quietly got in his car and turned it around but before leaving made a point of stopping next to me pointing and saying "Thanks for your help today" to which I replied "What help?" he responded "Exactly." To that I said "How about next time we do this at your place and you can wait for nothing to happen on a curb for three hours in the cold. You want help, try a stationary bike, it's probably easier on your fat ass than a treadmill"

Then he left and I was free to enter my home.

This isn't my first run in with the cops, certainly the longest, getting searched usually only takes a few minutes after all (as a white male with a buzzed head I very often "match the description"); but every run in with them I've ever had I've been a disrespectful asshole.

Now I ask you fellow escapists, how do you deal with "authority" figures, namely the police. Do you wait patently and hope for the best, do you gawk and take pictures, or do you inundate them with sarcasm and smart-assery?

I also have to say when I heard Gram mention a guy in his attic in Oregon on Feed Dump I almost thought he was talking about this incident for a second.

They're cops. Their main job at that point is to make sure NO ONE DIES.
They really don't give a fuck whether you're cold so long as there isn't a rampaging criminal on the loose.
Cops get too much shit from fuckwits like you when they have a stressful job that is generally for the good of the community. Perhaps a thanks for stopping a madman with a gun from running DOWN YOUR STREET might be handy?
In any case, YOU owe them the damn doughnuts

 

[Legit101]

................

 

[Wekub]

Being an arse would help neither them nor me, so I'd avoid that. :|
Jesus.
I'd try to explain my way back into my home in that situation, but I wouldn't go past that and dive into arseness.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Now I ask you fellow escapists, how do you deal with "authority" figures, namely the police.

After reading this: http://minimumcover.wordpress.com/2011/09/16/and-then-there-was-silence/ : I give them every piece of help I can.

And so should you.

Perhaps one or two people will read this who have, in the past, thrown their hands in the air in disgust when presented by six cones and a yellow jacket. Perhaps they will consider that, just possibly, there might be another Dave down the road, and that the officer stood before them may well have just stared into the helpless eyes of the dying or the dead. Just drive on and work out a new way to get home from a layby down the road. It?s not that much of an inconvenience really?is it?

 

[The Human Torch]

I call bullshit. Stop trying to make yourself look like an anti-hero.

 

[chadachada123]

-snip-

Let's assume they let you in your house, for whatever reason. What if the guy hiding in the attic manages to escape it, and find your house, maybe because you left your light on, maybe because he felt like it, unimportant details, and he decides to take you hostage. This scenario, unlikely as it might be, is still a concern for the Police Department, they have to make sure there isn't even the possibility of collateral damage.

For them, it was safer that you'd be sitting on the street, with them, so they could protect you more easily.

And, TBH, you being an ass doesn't help anyone, I understand that your day might have been long and hard and very tiresome, but that's no excuse to being annoying to other people who are also doing their long, hard and very tiresome work.

Making comments aloud isn't going to make work any harder for the 30 cops standing around outside...If I'm being forced to comply with stupid rules, I'm going to voice my opinion about them.

Besides, if the other houses weren't evacuated, but merely denied re-entry, your hypothetical situation is completely moot.

Are you sure? Have you ever tried to do YOUR JOB while some asshole made running commentary meant to either insult or distract you? What if you were running your mouth and the cop(s) missed a quiet but VERY IMPORTANT NOISE, like that of a gun being cocked, or orders being issued. I smoke pot and frequently break other minor laws, but if I was a cop that day, then BY GOD I would have arrested your punk ass for obstruction. Even if the charges didnt stick and I got a repremand for it, at the very least you would have been less of a distraction inside a squad car or back at the station.

Wow. I'm literally laughing aloud at the idea that you could hear a gun being cocked from outside, on the street, while around 30 fellow officers. You're also ignoring that there were actual officers inside the building in question. The officers outside were literally standing around, doing nothing but wasting tax-dollars.

 

[Creator002]

I treat the police as I do any other person. I'm polite as long as they are. I understand why you were frustrated by not being able to get to your house, but I think you were too quick to start being smart-ass.