Sniping is officially WORTHLESS in Black Ops

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Gizmo007666

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Nov 12, 2009
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Sure bring back quickscoping, but only if you make shotguns able to hit someone from across the map. I mean if we're going on the basis that its an unrealistic game, why should snipers be usable at all ranges but shotguns only work at close range?

Basically I'm glad they fixed snipers in Black Ops, the only valid reason I can see for snipers to complain is that (and I haven't tried all the maps yet so I'm not certain) I imagine the maps have again been created with close range combat in mind, meaning there's no opportunity for the sniper to sit in a relatively safe place and do what they're supposed to.
 

ImprovizoR

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Dec 6, 2009
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I can't believe people are complaining about more realistic snipers. I wish all guns had more recoil as well. I used F2000 in MW2 all the time because it was the only gun that needed some skill to be used. Now finally snipers need skill as well.
 

Vrach

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Jun 17, 2010
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Wow, if I'm seeing that video right, that's one properly retarded solution. You shoot at one place, bullet ends up in another? That's just poor show on the developers' side.

Hope this shit doesn't show up on PCs (considering auto aim doesn't plague it).
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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Good riddance.

Quick scoping is a pain in my arse.

Admittedly, this isn't the most elegant solution I could think of, but I'm still glad they did it.
 

vallorn

Tunnel Open, Communication Open.
Nov 18, 2009
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yay! death to the QuickScopers!

this is a great success for all gamers...
 

drdamo

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May 17, 2010
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ethaninja said:
Dude, how do you think sniping works in real life? You don't see military snipers running around a ridge, jumping up and down, then quickly looking down their sights to get a dead on shot.
I was talking about the use of the gun, not the element of stealth (or the lack of) or the laws of physics. Fix the jumping, not the gun.
 

Gritimo The Odd

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Aug 25, 2009
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. There's always a large group of vocal fans bitching about something in some game said:
which is apparently exactly what Treyarch concluded. If a large enough group of people state that something is flawed it is important that it gets reviewed by the makers go over it and see what can be done to improve it. From the looks of it Treyarch kept hearing more complaints about quickscoping then praises about it and decided to review that ability and change it. Ingoring a fanbase is a great way to lose future business with people who have just bought the game but may decide not to buy the next one that you make. Listening and responding to your customer base is one reason Valve and Blizzard are as popular as they are. Buisnesses listen to what they hear the most often about their product and it sems that they heard those who dislike quickscoping alot more often then those that liked it.

The 2-3 second delay does seem excessive though and will probably be reduced in the future. balance patches quite regularly happen and will most likely continue through most of the games lifespan untill the next COD comes out next year.
 

etherlance

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Apr 1, 2009
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Okay here's a few questions for you:


* Can you fully and properly write and code an online multiplayer games targeting system to work on a more fair basis?

* Can you Actually fully code and create a simple game at all?

* Do You have any contacts with the developers of the game?

* Do you honestly believe for a second that these guys, who individually earn more money in a week than you do in a entire year give a shit about you being pissed off?

* Do you think these guys will change the way they have redeveloped the game just for you while ignoring the thousands of players and fans who are sick of people running around the maps quick scoping just so they can get some quick cheap kills and call everyone else a fag because they called them out?

And my final question is this:

* Do you honestly think even for a second, that anyone here truly gives a shit about your rant just because the game will no longer allow people to play this cheap tactic?
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Sep 3, 2008
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Phoenixmgs said:
1) The correct term is NERF not gimp
Gimp works just fine actually as is even more to the point than Nerf as a gimp is (from google dictionary: lameness: disability of walking due to crippling of the legs or feet).

Nerf on the other hand likely refers to the toys of the same name. If one turned an honest to god fighting weapon (say an M-4) into a nerf equivalent, it would suddenly become quite useless at the task for which it was initially designed. Nerf takes longer to get to the same spot which is that you do something that makes something else less functional than before.
Phoenixmgs said:
2) Quickscoping is only cheap AT TIMES because of the poorly coded aim assist
The aim assist was hardly poorly coded as it worked as intended - that is, it works by compensating for the relatively poor aiming interface at the player's disposal (you can be quick or you can be precise with a joystick.)

Phoenixmgs said:
3) Even with the poorly coded aim assist, quickscoping wasn't even overpowered, ARing and SMGing would beat quickscoping most of the time.
I would never make the argument that quick scoping was overpowered. Rather, my argument would be that it allowed for a particular class of weapon to overcome a critical weakness (that is a lack of utility at close range). This has been a problem for high damage single shot weapons since I've been playing shooters (which is to say, as long as there have been shooters to play). Eventually, most games resort to having some system that arbitrarily limits the player's ability to shoot and move in rapid succession. Examples: Team Fortress requires a sniper to aim for a period of time before the shot does full damage. Simply rattling off a round does very little damage. Quake 3's railgun has an atrocious rate of fire. The Shotgun, easily as powerful at the right distance, fires much, much faster. As does the Rocket Launcher, BFG and lightning gun.

Phoenixmgs said:
4) Don't be lazy (and break a play style); properly code aim assist but I guess that's too hard
The style of play being "broken" is hardly one that was intended. The last time I checked, people don't expect snipers to be assaulting with the line troops. Quick scoping allows precisely that.

I would, however, point out that one particular game actually has a far worse example of this. Battlefield Bad Company 2 allows a player using a sniper kit to attach a red dot sight to his weapon. They can also select a semi-automatic sniper rifle. The result is one of the most shockingly lethal mod to close ranged weapons in the game because the sniper rifle arbitrarily does more damage than any other rifle (save the M-14) and has the benefit of an easy to use sighting system.

Phoenixmgs said:
The most important thing for competitive online gaming is balance among classes and play styles. Why buy and play a game where the developer purposefully makes the game unbalanced?
Because, some people might see this correction as an attempt to restore balance I suspect.

Phoenixmgs said:
EDIT: Stop using the "in real life" argument for being in favor of what Treyarch has done. In real life, you can't aim and shoot at a moving target at medium range and be successful.
Given that your perception for medium range likely came from a game like MW2, I'd assert that you, in fact, can hit a target that is moving while you, yourself, are moving at a distance of several dozen meters. Is it less effective than taking careful aim? Sure is. But people are relatively large things that don't move particularly fast. Bullets on the other hand are very fast and your average military weapon has a long magazine so that you have plenty of opportunities to connect.

Now, if you were using actual real life medium range (which would start somewhere in excess of 150m), I'd agree. At that distance the inherent instability of your firing position will result in you missing more often than not.

Phoenixmgs said:
In real life, you have to stop, and take a few seconds to properly line up a shot with an assault rifle as well.
Depends entirely upon the range. At say 10 meters or so (a reasonable distance you'd find in your average gunfight in MW2), I can easily hit a target without ever actually using the sights on a rifle while moving and transitioning from a weapon held low to a firing position. It isn't an unexpected skill here. If I, a REMF in the US Army had to learn how do do such things, you can bet the infantry are quite proficient at it.

Phoenixmgs said:
Why should sniping adhere to real life while using an assault rifle and other guns don't adhere to real life?
For the very same reason a shotgun is a liability in a long ranged gun fight in real life and in video games. In exchange for the ultimate expression of power in one circumstance you are saddled with a terrible weakness in others.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

Muse of Fate
Sep 1, 2010
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Vrach said:
Wow, if I'm seeing that video right, that's one properly retarded solution. You shoot at one place, bullet ends up in another? That's just poor show on the developers' side.
This is exactly my stance.

Don't remedy the situation in the most retarded fashion. CoD is the most popular shooter and a PROPER fix to the issue should be applied. CoD multiplayer hasn't changed much at all and the game should be really balanced at this point but MW2 was so broken. There no reason to make a game less balanced and it's just plain unprofessional.
 

silver wolf009

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Jan 23, 2010
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You know I do seem to remember seeing the snipers power bar in TF2 as just a way to get rid of quickscoping, until I realised that thats not what a sniper should be doing and that the power bar was actually a great way to balance the game. I haven't played this, I will be soon so I can judge later, but that is my original feeling on the matter.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

Muse of Fate
Sep 1, 2010
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CTU_Loscombe said:
No offence to any "quickscopers" in here but seriously quickscoping is such a dick move

Try using a weapon that requires skill
I don't snipe in games because I suck at it but how is quickscoping less skillful than AR/SMG spraying? CoD multiplayer isn't very skillful to begin with.
 

Alon Shechter

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Apr 8, 2010
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Well, clearly you fail to realize was a sniper actually does.
Even in the CoD series, snipers still do the same.
They wait patiently for some dude and blow his brains out as he comes to the open.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

Muse of Fate
Sep 1, 2010
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snowbilby said:
This is awesome! It's hilarious watching all the hardcore CoD nerds ***** about how "the snipings ruined!!!!". It's just pure awesome...
I'm not a CoD nerd, the only CoD I ever played was CoD4. I don't support buying the same game every year.
 

garfoldsomeoneelse

Charming, But Stupid
Mar 22, 2009
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Phoenixmgs said:
Assault rifles can kill long range snipers when that wouldn't happen in real life because you need a counter sniper to do that.
Realism really only seems to bother you when it's convenient to your argument, doesn't it? Besides, that's called balance, and it's one of those instances where you really kinda suck if it happens to you. A sniper at long range getting killed by a guy with an assault rifle is equally as embarrassing as a sniper pulling out a pistol and killing a guy charging him with a shotgun; if you can't kill me in your own element, in the painfully long time I've wasted lining up a shot and slowly chipping away at your health, you deserve every last bullet I am putting in your stupid face.

I'm not totally against for the one-shot sniper kill at close range, I'm totally against fact the bullet does not go where you aim, that's bullshit.
Who cares? A guy carrying a Barret .50BMG shouldn't really be able to run any faster than a guy with an RPD (or even accurately fire while standing) but he does. These are the arbitrary rules put in place to balance an imperfect system as much as possible. They allow SMG-toting players to strafe circles around players with assault rifles while aiming down their sights and riddle them with lead. They make sure LMG-using players can't run and gun with a ridiculously potent weapon, encouraging them to either move slowly and cautiously, or stay in one place and control an area.

It may be subtle, but Call of Duty's multiplayer is class-based, like Team Fortress, and which class you play is determined by what category of gun your primary weapon is; this is reinforced by the fact that your player model is based on what kind of weapon you're using, and also the fact that the weapon descriptions in each category uniformly state what ranges you'll be most at home with, with marginal variations at best.

The maps are all built to accommodate each class, with the largest ones having plenty of cover and obstacles dividing the map into everything from sniper corridors to close-quarters deathtraps, and even the most obviously close-quarters maps (like COD4's Vacant) have sniper corridors and very long, open hallways; since the medium-range areas belong to the versatile assault rifle class, which has more success in other areas than other classes have in its domain, they tend to be more open and susceptible to killstreak bonuses (everywhere an assault rifle dominates is the worst possible place to be when an airstrike or 'copter comes screaming in, save for sniper perches, which are similarly vulnerable in order to expose campers). The idea is to stick to the area that suits your class most; being able to own each one destroys the concept. If a sniper needs to engage in close-range combat, he's either left his designated zone, or the enemy simply outplayed him; he died because he either took a risk or sucked, respectively, and in both cases, deserved it.

And, the health regen is an issue as well. If a sniper gets a close range hit, the ARer can then back off, take a short side-trip (go in a room, go around a building, etc.) and be at full health as he comes back to get the sniper.
So why didn't the sniper chase after him with his pistol and shoot him in the back of the head at least six times, or attempt to stab him? That isn't a question of balance, that's a question of tactical competence.