So... fat chicks.

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I'd still say we were 'at least the kind that burn their free time posting on message boards and blogs'. So, people in glass blogs shouldn't throw flames.

It's much more offensive to have prejudice remarks hidden behind a veneer of respectability, because we can all discount the poo-slingers that hide in 4-Chan.

And even saying that, 4Chan are behind some of the peaceful 'attacks' on Scientology, which I think we can all get behind.

 

[Vandal Phantom]

Now I'm actually curious about something, a small notion of course but possibly laced with controversy (hopefully baring a wide margin away from the direction the individuals in this thread who have been put on probation or banned).

What if there were a game in which the protagonist was A) a woman and B) of the plus sized variety.

Before even considering the notions of story, game play type, and art direction what would be the immediate reaction of the internet and by people at large...no pun intended this time I assure you. Before any notion at all is given as to the tone of the game or the reason the character is big and immediately considered ugly by a large portion of western culture including the entertainment media that are not video games and the fashion industry with no thought given to their appearance beyond a little or a lot of "bigness". I give those as examples because I would immediately have a reaction in the opposite direction by personal biased and preference but that rests in another place altogether.

Would we see a similar outpour of reactions and arguments as have presented themselves here? I'm curious to hear some of the more well formed thoughts on the matter.

 

[AntiAntagonist]

I'd still say we were 'at least the kind that burn their free time posting on message boards and blogs'. So, people in glass blogs shouldn't throw flames.

It's much more offensive to have prejudice remarks hidden behind a veneer of respectability, because we can all discount the poo-slingers that hide in 4-Chan.

And even saying that, 4Chan are behind some of the peaceful 'attacks' on Scientology, which I think we can all get behind.

The Scientology thing is half and half. It's usually people that aren't trollish that are protesting properly. Even then some of the trolls still make threats on the Scientologists.

It's a little weird to me to consider prejudice though. Since some prejudices are preferences, and much of the prejudice idea comes down to whether or not the prejudice is negative and if that negativity has a consequence.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

God people please stop crying, it's a game, god knows we have worse things to worry over, third world countries, war, terrorists etc, people find anything to ***** about nowadays.(

even if the game was sexist, we could still enjoy it and play it while being aware of the social perspective that the game is promoting.

i don't view a critical assessment of anything as a chastisement of it. also, we can discuss something as trivial as a videogame while still being abreast of real social problems.

 

[AntiAntagonist]

Now I'm actually curious about something, a small notion of course but possibly laced with controversy (hopefully baring a wide margin away from the direction the individuals in this thread who have been put on probation or banned).

What if there were a game in which the protagonist was A) a woman and B) of the plus sized variety.

Before even considering the notions of story, game play type, and art direction what would be the immediate reaction of the internet and by people at large...no pun intended this time I assure you. Before any notion at all is given as to the tone of the game or the reason the character is big and immediately considered ugly by a large portion of western culture including the entertainment media that are not video games and the fashion industry with no thought given to their appearance beyond a little or a lot of "bigness". I give those as examples because I would immediately have a reaction in the opposite direction by personal biased and preference but that rests in another place altogether.

Would we see a similar outpour of reactions and arguments as have presented themselves here? I'm curious to hear some of the more well formed thoughts on the matter.

I believe it'd depend a lot on what happened in the game. "Does the character binge-eat?" "Does the weight play a part in mechanics or story?" "Are the above variables portrayed negatively?" etc...

[link"http://www.gamepolitics.com/2008/04/30/madd-gets-mad-over-drunk-driving-in-gta-iv-calls-for-esrb-to-re-rate-as-adults-only"]I'd bet there'd still be misguided protest even if the mechanics had choices tied to negative consequences[/link].

Seems to me that part of the McEwan fervor is based on the image of eating.

 

[WlknCntrdiction]

God people please stop crying, it's a game, god knows we have worse things to worry over, third world countries, war, terrorists etc, people find anything to ***** about nowadays.(

even if the game was sexist, we could still enjoy it and play it while being aware of the social perspective that the game is promoting.

i don't view a critical assessment of anything as a chastisement of it. also, we can discuss something as trivial as a videogame while still being abreast of real social problems.

At the end of the day I just play games to have fun, I'm not sure about the rest of you guys though. I'm not oblivious to what goes on in the world but there's a time, a place and a medium in which to discuss things like this, games, which are fantasy shouldn't be considered one, that's just taking things wayyy too far and serious, something games aren't meant to be, they're just meant to be fun things to play after a hard day at work or every now and again for enjoyment, not be the debating ground for sexism, racism and any other isms I can think of. Leave the games alone

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

At the end of the day I just play games to have fun, I'm not sure about the rest of you guys though. I'm not oblivious to what goes on in the world but there's a time, a place and a medium in which to discuss things like this, games, which are fantasy shouldn't be considered one, that's just taking things wayyy too far and serious, something games aren't meant to be, they're just meant to be fun things to play after a hard day at work or every now and again for enjoyment, not be the debating ground for sexism, racism and any other isms I can think of. Leave the games alone

now you're just going in circles. obviously there is a debate or dialogue in regards to videogames and their social context just because you don't care about it doesn't mean it does not or should not exist.

your perspective is sort of a cop out.

 

[Slayer_2]

I hate feminism. They seem to get riled up by the trees rustling too loud and act like men suck. I beleive both genders should be equal unlike those fascist women. Oh well, there's nothing I can do.

 

[AntiAntagonist]

At the end of the day I just play games to have fun, I'm not sure about the rest of you guys though. I'm not oblivious to what goes on in the world but there's a time, a place and a medium in which to discuss things like this, games, which are fantasy shouldn't be considered one, that's just taking things wayyy too far and serious, something games aren't meant to be, they're just meant to be fun things to play after a hard day at work or every now and again for enjoyment, not be the debating ground for sexism, racism and any other isms I can think of. Leave the games alone

I figure we still get it both ways. We have fun games like Chu Chu Rocket that are entirely for the experience, plus some (thus far) amateur social commentary in games like Army of Two, GTA4 or MGS4.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Well, no matter how misguided the lady blogger was, I have to say that the ignorance and bigotry displayed here far outclasses her.

Regarding the game itself, I do find myself agreeing with the blog at the Feminist Gamer website. The trouble I have with the game in question is the sheer amount objectifying going on. The princess is captured against her will, force-fed against her will... heck, she could be being rescued against her will for all we know. Even Zelda at least had a little personality.

My problem isn't that the Princess in the game is fat. It's more that she serves no other purpose than to be a flag-replacement. She's basically a useless object whose weight serves no other purpose than to be a crux to those rescuing her. As the other blog said, she could be a treasure chest full of coins, and it wouldn't affect the game one bit. Why did they choose to use a Princess? Because, as we all know, people like to laugh at fat people.

And of course, 'Fat Princess' is hardly the subtlest of titles.

well said. then again, your thoughtful and articulate choice of words is why she's being read more than your post. i really don't see any productivity in the blogger's approach since her over simplification also serves to marginalize her own perspective.

 

[Copter400]

This thread is getting pretty damn fat.

Amazing what a screenshot of an obese woman will do to some people.

 

[Mikav]

I like her "PS the Ps2 Sucks"

Now we know she's fat and genuinely out of it. I mean, that's like a 2+2=4 FACT that the Ps2 did not suck!

 

[The Wooster]

We can reduce anything down to its base components, it's the method of objectifying those things that makes the difference between 'go get our stuff back' and 'retrieve the Jade Falcon'. Some ways will make people think, some will offend, some will be horribly confusing, some will break cultural boundaries, etc. There's a great many out there, and in the various industries' search for catching the public eye, mind, or wallet, we'll likely see plenty falling into each category. So what does this mean?

Nothing at all: this is the variety (spice) of life. Each person will find what they like and don't like. The problem is when one person decides for everyone what they should and shouldn't like. Your tolerance for spicy food, the color purple, or the existance of fat chicks in a game will differ from the next person, but do not assume your outrage is any more valid than their acceptance. By all means, have your say and try to change the minds of those around you, but if you decide to do it in a manner that will arouse drama and controvery, you better be expecting the response it will receive.

 

[tobyornottoby]

I believe it'd depend a lot on what happened in the game. "Does the character binge-eat?" "Does the weight play a part in mechanics or story?" "Are the above variables portrayed negatively?" etc...

Would be cool if it had no mechanical relevance whatsoever

In that 'documentary' What The BLEEP Do We Know the sidekick is (howdyacallthat)... deaf & mute, so people have to talk with hand signs to her... the whole time I was waiting for the clue, why they put her in there... but no reason! She just existed, like everyone else. That was quite te lesson.

(Or maybe there WAS a reason and I missed it... but it would still be awesome)

 

[Joeshie]

Is the point, here. Would people mind actually bothering to read the reasoning [http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/23/well-that-was-bound-to-happen/] before listing off generic and poorly thought-out supports?

Wait, in _Super Mario Bros. 2_ doesn't fat Mario have four stars for speed while the skinny Luigi has only three?

That's because Doki Doki Panic isn't a Mario game.

I don't know. While the article was more articulate, it still comes to the same very erroneous conclusions in my opinion.

Because women are helpless in the face of cake, of course, she just eats and eats.

Apparently, if a one girl does something in a video game, that must mean that the creators had intended for this one girl to be a representative of the entire female population. She looks far too deep into the the possible representations and therefore arrives at clearly the wrong conclusions. That seems to be a problem at large with the politically correct crowd: they make mountains out of molehills and take anything and everything as a possible politically incorrect statement about the world.

What really happens to be humorous parody in the video game, this blogger has taken the road that these are images are harmful and inherently mean-spirited. The blogger criticizes the game for not adhering to real world ideas and concepts. Therein, lies the problem with the bloggers entire post: the game is clearly not meant to portray the real world or how it works.

The blogger mentions, "And of course she?s so heavy that it takes a whole crowd of soldiers to carry her! Because that?s what fat people are like! The cartoon-logic is impeccable.", which assumes that the princess should walk and move like a realistic person in a cartoonish world. Perhaps if the game were actually attempting to emulate real-life, the bloggers argument might have more substance, but from here it sounds like the argument is just as ridiculous as claiming that watching Looney Tunes will teach children to be violent.

I also like how the blogger assumes that all the gamers who strongly disagree with the original blogger are immature cretins who can't think of a logical argument. Not exactly the best thing to do when you are complaining about perpetuating stereotypes. And while the blogger posted about the subject more rationally, I still feel that the opinion is still inherently flawed.

 

[Break]

I mean, that's like a 2+2=4 FACT that the Ps2 did not suck!

The PS2 sucked. It had quite a few amazing games for it, tho', so the suckyness of the actual console doesn't really matter. Anyway, that's not the issue.

Coz I think Holly has just been prejudiced to me, and also people like [lists names]

prototypical

Ahaha, are you suggesting that the usual and prevailing type of internet-user has a mind? How droll. She's being biased against forum-goers as much as forum-goers are against emos, or furries, or whatever subculture you kids are ragging on these days. It'd be silly to discount the crazy 4channers, because she was implicitly referring to the crazy 4channers.

I hate feminism. They seem to get riled up by the trees rustling too loud and act like men suck. I beleive both genders should be equal unlike those fascist women. Oh well, there's nothing I can do.

Don't be silly. You're confusing "feminism" with "being a man-hating psycho".

Apparently, if a one girl does something in a video game, that must mean that the creators had intended for this one girl to be a representative of the entire female population. She looks far too deep into the the possible representations and therefore arrives at clearly the wrong conclusions. That seems to be a problem at large with the politically correct crowd: they make mountains out of molehills and take anything and everything as a possible politically incorrect statement about the world.

The idea that the Fat Princess was supposed to be the developers' example of what women are, isn't what the Feministe blogger was saying, though. If you agree that the developers intended Fat Princess to be amusing, then there's not a whole lot of difference between your view and hers. It reinforces the idea that it's okay to laugh at fat people. Looney Tunes doesn't teach kids to be violent, but it could easily be argued that it teaches kids that pain is fine to laugh at. Well, it teaches them that violence is funny in as much as a ten-year-old who's taken a karate class for a couple of weeks could teach Bruce Lee how to fight, but hey. The Feministe blogger correctly surmises that the humour in Fat Princess is a symptom of the still-unbalanced view of discrimination in society. It was included as humour, but it's not a real joke. It's just, "hey! Look at this chick! She's really fat!"

 

[BurnoutPriest]

As stated above, the princess gimmick was created for humor. The joke may be tasteless, but that's all it is. There is not some underlying anti-fat agenda going on here. There is also a difference between fat and morbidly obese which many people seem to be missing. If you look at the picture of the princess she isn't just "fat," she's unrealistically obese. If I see a cartoon character with such a large nose he can't get through doors without knee-slapping antics, I'm not going to cry anti-large-nose.

Political correctness is a nice little idea, however if I see a 500 pound anything walking down the street and complaining about their current state I'm not going to give a rat's ass about PC. I'll be appalled or irate. I'd love to hope said weight is actually just concealed muscle mass, but that's just not how it works it in the world most of the time.

Besides, why are obese people now untouchable? Society heckle smokers, potheads, heavy drinkers, etc only a daily basis. What's the difference? "I was born this way!," I hear cried. "It's genetics, not habits!" I'm sorry to say statistics are not in your favor. Besides, have you heard of epigenetics? Based on outside influences genes can turn on and OFF, become methylized. That's right! Not only that, but these "on" and "off" states can become hereditary. Anyone who decides to destroy their health or not actively seek to better it can in effect actively spite their children's and grandchildren's health.

Whew, I do apologize for the full blown rant, but I've had some excess bile build up from all the posts I've read. Despite what it might sound like, I'm not trying to preach the perfect life. The point I'm trying to get across is take more responsibility for your self (maybe we need a little more existentialism in our modern philosophy) and get over it if your every quality isn't portrayed in a positive light. The truth is it never will be.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Well, no matter how misguided the lady blogger was, I have to say that the ignorance and bigotry displayed here far outclasses her.

Really?

How so? Because from what I've seen of the ladies arguments in question, she deliberately provokes the hivemind of spammers (who have no real prejudices as they hate everything), who then swarm over her, she then takes this as an "attack" and tells them they have small dicks.

If she'd just left this alone, it would have probably sold a few copies. However, now she's had her face and writing on a hundred websites, and proved "SHE HAS FOT TEH NET AND WUN!".

Now to me, that seems as self-serving as it gets. If the only battle you get to fight is against a pack of 12 year olds, then it's hardly a victory, is it?

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Ahaha, are you suggesting that the usual and prevailing type of internet-user has a mind? How droll.

Damn...and here I was thinking exactly that because I try not to be prejudice against someone I've never met.

or whatever subculture you kids are ragging on these days.

Dude, I'll put money on it I'm older than you.