So, I'm dating my cousin now... Yeah...

[BlackWidower]

Because of my awesome research skills, I found this.

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=124241

Story about two cousins, first cousins, who married. Their children ended up not retarded, in fact, the smartest in their class, and their family, who weren't exactly 100% on the idea, supported them because they were afraid of losing contact with these two.

Should be helpful.

 

[BlackWidower]

Glad my relatives are ugly!

In all seriousness... if you're not blood related, it doesn't matter.

I like how everyone's going on about love when you're both kids though. Makes me laugh.

So you're basically saying, because they are under the age of 18, they can't possibly know what love is...seriously?

 

[TelHybrid]

Glad my relatives are ugly!

In all seriousness... if you're not blood related, it doesn't matter.

I like how everyone's going on about love when you're both kids though. Makes me laugh.

So you're basically saying, because they are under the age of 18, they can't possibly know what love is...seriously?

Real intimate love, yes.

It's just a childish fling, where everything's all happy and exciting and new. Once the initial new relationship spark fizzles out, then that's a true test of love. Whether they still care for each other, enjoy each other's company, etc etc, you get the idea.

It's just so commonplace these days that teen couples claiming they're in love after dating each other for as short of a time as a couple of weeks or months. It's dealing with the true tests of life that determine that. Not the initial excitement.

Not to mention in teen years, one's emotions are all over the place.

 

[BlackWidower]

Glad my relatives are ugly!

In all seriousness... if you're not blood related, it doesn't matter.

I like how everyone's going on about love when you're both kids though. Makes me laugh.

So you're basically saying, because they are under the age of 18, they can't possibly know what love is...seriously?

Real intimate love, yes.

It's just a childish fling, where everything's all happy and exciting and new. Once the initial new relationship spark fizzles out, then that's a true test of love. Whether they still care for each other, enjoy each other's company, etc etc, you get the idea.

It's just so commonplace these days that teen couples claiming they're in love after dating each other for as short of a time as a couple of weeks or months. It's dealing with the true tests of life that determine that. Not the initial excitement.

Not to mention in teen years, one's emotions are all over the place.

Okay, you might be right. However, it's not impossible that this is the real deal. I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt. Also, by what you just said, it could apply at any age. You don't know.

 

[TelHybrid]

Spoiler

Glad my relatives are ugly!

In all seriousness... if you're not blood related, it doesn't matter.

I like how everyone's going on about love when you're both kids though. Makes me laugh.

So you're basically saying, because they are under the age of 18, they can't possibly know what love is...seriously?

Real intimate love, yes.

It's just a childish fling, where everything's all happy and exciting and new. Once the initial new relationship spark fizzles out, then that's a true test of love. Whether they still care for each other, enjoy each other's company, etc etc, you get the idea.

It's just so commonplace these days that teen couples claiming they're in love after dating each other for as short of a time as a couple of weeks or months. It's dealing with the true tests of life that determine that. Not the initial excitement.

Not to mention in teen years, one's emotions are all over the place.

Okay, you might be right. However, it's not impossible that this is the real deal. I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt. Also, by what you just said, it could apply at any age. You don't know.

I suppose. I just found it laughable that many of the posts jump to the conclusion of "love". It's something that our society seems to think is so easy and a given that can be attained by two people in their teen years still maturing, when it is actually infact a lot of hard work and sacrifice too, not just the initial excitement of a fling.

 

[BlackWidower]

Spoiler

Glad my relatives are ugly!

In all seriousness... if you're not blood related, it doesn't matter.

I like how everyone's going on about love when you're both kids though. Makes me laugh.

So you're basically saying, because they are under the age of 18, they can't possibly know what love is...seriously?

Real intimate love, yes.

It's just a childish fling, where everything's all happy and exciting and new. Once the initial new relationship spark fizzles out, then that's a true test of love. Whether they still care for each other, enjoy each other's company, etc etc, you get the idea.

It's just so commonplace these days that teen couples claiming they're in love after dating each other for as short of a time as a couple of weeks or months. It's dealing with the true tests of life that determine that. Not the initial excitement.

Not to mention in teen years, one's emotions are all over the place.

Okay, you might be right. However, it's not impossible that this is the real deal. I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt. Also, by what you just said, it could apply at any age. You don't know.

I suppose. I just found it laughable that many of the posts jump to the conclusion of "love". It's something that our society seems to think is so easy and a given that can be attained by two people in their teen years still maturing, when it is actually infact a lot of hard work and sacrifice too, not just the initial excitement of a fling.

Well you seem to have a lot of experience with the issue. So I'll concede to your expertise. I mean hell! Lord knows I'm not an expert. Last relationship I was in was 6 years ago...and I'm not sure that even counts. I mean she lived in a different province.

"you know you're a redneck when you go to family reunions to pick up women" - jeff foxworthy

if you're SERIOUS about it... well i am sorry to say you're mentally ill and there is nothing anyone can do.

Kindly step outside this thread, troll.

oh so i am a troll because i am the only one who DOESN'T fuck his cousin? that i know better then to do that and realize this will only end badly? possibly with excommunication from the family? living in exile without ever having to ability to return home? nice logic.

Okay, one: It's his fifth cousin through adoption.

Two: Even with first cousins, there's very little chance of birth defects. It's around 2%...a concern, but still unlikely.

Three: To automatically state someone is mentally ill without backing your shit up (NB: Ad hominem remarks don't count) is trolling...and offensive to those who are actually mentally ill because you are generalizing.

Four: Excommunication? I have never heard that phrase uttered outside the context of religion. Even so, if his family is that judgmental, he's better off without them, because, as I've said, it's his fifth cousin through adoption. Besides, who really wants the ability to return home and not get on with their life?

1. a cousin nonetheless.
2. where did i state health reasons?
3. and you think i am utter perfect? that i have no mental issues? do you have my medical record and have 4 years of medical school?
4. where did i say live there? i said they wont talk to him ever. you may say "oh he doesn't need family" but what happens when he is in need? who is he going to call upon if his friends cannot? it would be a sink or swim situation.

So your issue is not for the sake of the children? Then what? Because society looks down upon them? The arbitrary rules of society. I'm sorry but that has never flown with me. Not only that, his family having a beef with that is more their problem then it is his. Yes if the shit hits the fan and he's destitute, it sucks he can't go back to them. But that's what Welfare is for. The social safety net that millions of tax dollars go to.

Finally your crack about him being mentally ill offends me because I have a mental illness. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and I find it offensive that you are trivializing mental illness.

i have mental illnesses too and so does my entire family. oh great you suggest WELFARE! yeah! that is a comfortable way to make a living. /sarcasm.

Who says anything about making a living? I thought we were talking about a situation where he's destitute. What you're basically implying is, he should instead make a living by mooching off his family. That's better?

Also, I don't care if you have a mental illness, it's still offensive.

nice way to necro an argument that is long gone. do you think i particularly CARE that it is offensive? no. way to beat a dead horse there, buddy.

See, that I respect. Not caring if you offend people as long as you tell the truth. Oh wait...you didn't.

The only reason I brought it up was an unspoken rule I have in debating to counter, or at least address every individual argument.

Moving on, I have an honest question. The mental illness you mentioned, is it Insult Tourette's? I ask because browsing this thread, of which you seem to be an active contributor, most of your arguments seem to basically involve ad hominum remarks and straw manning your opponent over the head. It just makes you look silly.

 

[Phoenixlight]

it's legal in California to marry your cousins...

Wow that's just wrong, I can't believe that it's legal.

 

[Skratt]

What no pics?

I believe it's actually legal to marry your 1st cousin just about anywhere but illegal to have children together. That being said, if she is 4 or 5 times removed, whatever dude, it's your gene pool. The royals do it, why not the plebs?

That being said, I would avoid introducing her as "your cousin". It makes it sound like she is your 1st cousin and if I had to guess, you can't backpedal fast enough out of a "I'm dating my cousin" conversation.

You will run into some very hard walls if your family finds out, so you should have a very serious disclosure discussion with your girlfriend about this and figure out what level of blacksheep you can both stomach.

 

[Crash 9000]

I've had sex with my sister, kind of, not intercourse, but certainly sexual.
I was around 16 and she was around 15, during summer vacation, we were watching a movie late at night and it kinda went from there.

So, I guess if it feels good, do it.

 

[Bluesclues]

That's just gross.

Please can we have some maturity here?

How is that not mature, I didn't say anything mean, and if he can't take one person reminding him of what society thinks then the familys response is going to crush him. Hell I live in Utah and you don't even hear of that here, you think you would but it's looked down upon.

Fuck society! What does society know!? Society voted for George Bush!

Yea that attitude will get you places, it's got class written all over it. Face it whether you like it or not you live in a society , unless you want to go out into the woods and live like a hermit then you have to play by their rules, and that means you don't date family.

Well, by that analogy you shouldn't date members of your own sex either. You shouldn't eat in a public restaurant with members of a different race, and you certainly shouldn't date them, either. You see what I'm getting at? Society changes over time and it doesn't do so because of people sitting back, simply obeying the rules. It's done by people who are willing to break them, and with the Balzac to do it in society's face.

You see I've always judged things by their own merits and the scientific principles behind them. Not on arbitrary societal rules. Because that's what they are...arbitrary.

If you want to come up with an argument against this man dating his cousin, you will have to come up with an argument more complex than: "Ew, Gross."

I don't know what society you live in but it's rather acceptable to be gay in the US, especially in California. Ok you want something more complex, then how about dating someone outside of the family to bring fresh DNA into to the family. As for "arbitrary societal rules" if you don't want to follow the big ones like "don't date your family" then ether don't do it or get ready for a lot more then "that's just gross", also don't expect people to want to be around ether of you.

Okay, this is going to be fun.

Yes, it's socially acceptable to be gay...NOW! It wasn't 10 or 20 years ago. As I said, this is because people pushed the social norms and got society to accept them. I think the evolution of society is a good thing, because without it, we'd still be scrounging for berries and nuts. Though some people want us to go back to that...the hippies.

Secondly, there is very little chance of birth defects for those who are children of cousins, and...you know, I wrote about this before, read.

Hmmm...

I remember seeing a documentary about this on 20/20. This was a long time ago. One of the cases on the show involved two...I think they were second or third, but they might be first cousins, I don't know...who had three kids together...who were the smartest in their class.

That's typically the concern right? Inbreeding. The kids will be idiots with a leg growing out of their head. Obviously this is not the case. Apparently the odds are two percent, which is a lot lower than other things.

But apparently, from what you said, you two are like fifth cousins...through adoption...or something. If your family wasn't as close as you seem to be, and you two just met on the street and hit it off it wouldn't be an issue. I haven't seen my cousins in...well...ever. I think I met a few of them once. Half my family I've never met because my dad ran off before I was born.

If I met a girl, we hit it off, started dating, then I found out she's my dad's second cousin's daughter, (making her my third cousin) I wouldn't give a shit. I might ask if her family is still coming to the wedding. They say it's an affront to god, I reply that I'm an atheist so I don't give a shit.

Love doesn't give a shit and neither should you. Besides, if you step far enough back, you will notice we are all cousins...distant cousins sure, but cousins none the less. Look at the theory of the Mitochondrial Eve. We all came from one woman, or at least our mitochondria did.

So I guess all I have to say is have fun you crazy kids. Though before you start looking at having kids of your own, you might want to see a geneticist...just to be safe.

Next, as for one not willing to follow the big societal rules. IT DOESN'T MATTER HOW BIG THEY ARE! THEY'RE STILL ARBITRARY!!! I think people need to question every taboo no matter how big it is.

Also, I'd like to reiterate. It's his fifth cousin through adoption. I think that negates most of the rules. If not, where's the fucking line?

I'd be with you if it was his sister, even through adoption (psychological shit), but that's not the case.

This guy is asking if his family and to a larger extent society in general is going to accept that, and I pretty much put the tames answer he is going to hear. And it's not really a case of how much he is related to her it's a case that he went to a family gathering and picked up on someone, their link to the family tree could have be adopted 10 generations back but if they are still known in the family it's looked down upon. Pushing the social norm is fine but dating family is stepping back not forward.

"you know you're a redneck when you go to family reunions to pick up women" - jeff foxworthy

if you're SERIOUS about it... well i am sorry to say you're mentally ill and there is nothing anyone can do.

Kindly step outside this thread, troll.

oh so i am a troll because i am the only one who DOESN'T fuck his cousin? that i know better then to do that and realize this will only end badly? possibly with excommunication from the family? living in exile without ever having to ability to return home? nice logic.

I got put on probation for saying "That's just gross." so evidently if you don't agree with what the OP is saying your a troll.

You got put on probation for a low-content post and for not doing any discussing, which is what you're meant to do in this forum, especially in a thread like this. Please read the forum rules before playing the victim here.

 

[teh buttpickle]

I've had sex with my sister, kind of, not intercourse, but certainly sexual.
I was around 16 and she was around 15, during summer vacation, we were watching a movie late at night and it kinda went from there.

So, I guess if it feels good, do it.

Must have been one hell of a movie.

 

[Darkwolf9]

I say go for it. If you're as far removed as it sounds (based on the edit) I'm not sure anyone will really care.

 

[BlackWidower]

Spoiler

Glad my relatives are ugly!

In all seriousness... if you're not blood related, it doesn't matter.

I like how everyone's going on about love when you're both kids though. Makes me laugh.

So you're basically saying, because they are under the age of 18, they can't possibly know what love is...seriously?

Real intimate love, yes.

It's just a childish fling, where everything's all happy and exciting and new. Once the initial new relationship spark fizzles out, then that's a true test of love. Whether they still care for each other, enjoy each other's company, etc etc, you get the idea.

It's just so commonplace these days that teen couples claiming they're in love after dating each other for as short of a time as a couple of weeks or months. It's dealing with the true tests of life that determine that. Not the initial excitement.

Not to mention in teen years, one's emotions are all over the place.

Okay, you might be right. However, it's not impossible that this is the real deal. I think we should give them the benefit of the doubt. Also, by what you just said, it could apply at any age. You don't know.

I suppose. I just found it laughable that many of the posts jump to the conclusion of "love". It's something that our society seems to think is so easy and a given that can be attained by two people in their teen years still maturing, when it is actually infact a lot of hard work and sacrifice too, not just the initial excitement of a fling.

Well you seem to have a lot of experience with the issue. So I'll concede to your expertise. I mean hell! Lord knows I'm not an expert. Last relationship I was in was 6 years ago...and I'm not sure that even counts. I mean she lived in a different province.

"you know you're a redneck when you go to family reunions to pick up women" - jeff foxworthy

if you're SERIOUS about it... well i am sorry to say you're mentally ill and there is nothing anyone can do.

Kindly step outside this thread, troll.

oh so i am a troll because i am the only one who DOESN'T fuck his cousin? that i know better then to do that and realize this will only end badly? possibly with excommunication from the family? living in exile without ever having to ability to return home? nice logic.

Okay, one: It's his fifth cousin through adoption.

Two: Even with first cousins, there's very little chance of birth defects. It's around 2%...a concern, but still unlikely.

Three: To automatically state someone is mentally ill without backing your shit up (NB: Ad hominem remarks don't count) is trolling...and offensive to those who are actually mentally ill because you are generalizing.

Four: Excommunication? I have never heard that phrase uttered outside the context of religion. Even so, if his family is that judgmental, he's better off without them, because, as I've said, it's his fifth cousin through adoption. Besides, who really wants the ability to return home and not get on with their life?

1. a cousin nonetheless.
2. where did i state health reasons?
3. and you think i am utter perfect? that i have no mental issues? do you have my medical record and have 4 years of medical school?
4. where did i say live there? i said they wont talk to him ever. you may say "oh he doesn't need family" but what happens when he is in need? who is he going to call upon if his friends cannot? it would be a sink or swim situation.

So your issue is not for the sake of the children? Then what? Because society looks down upon them? The arbitrary rules of society. I'm sorry but that has never flown with me. Not only that, his family having a beef with that is more their problem then it is his. Yes if the shit hits the fan and he's destitute, it sucks he can't go back to them. But that's what Welfare is for. The social safety net that millions of tax dollars go to.

Finally your crack about him being mentally ill offends me because I have a mental illness. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, and I find it offensive that you are trivializing mental illness.

i have mental illnesses too and so does my entire family. oh great you suggest WELFARE! yeah! that is a comfortable way to make a living. /sarcasm.

Who says anything about making a living? I thought we were talking about a situation where he's destitute. What you're basically implying is, he should instead make a living by mooching off his family. That's better?

Also, I don't care if you have a mental illness, it's still offensive.

nice way to necro an argument that is long gone. do you think i particularly CARE that it is offensive? no. way to beat a dead horse there, buddy.

See, that I respect. Not caring if you offend people as long as you tell the truth. Oh wait...you didn't.

The only reason I brought it up was an unspoken rule I have in debating to counter, or at least address every individual argument.

Moving on, I have an honest question. The mental illness you mentioned, is it Insult Tourette's? I ask because browsing this thread, of which you seem to be an active contributor, most of your arguments seem to basically involve ad hominum remarks and straw manning your opponent over the head. It just makes you look silly.

those are reactionary. if they didn't beat a dead horse then i wouldn't have to straw man them do i? they know they wont change my mind yet they persistently try.

Yes, how dare they think you could be open to reason.

 

[BlackWidower]

I've had sex with my sister, kind of, not intercourse, but certainly sexual.
I was around 16 and she was around 15, during summer vacation, we were watching a movie late at night and it kinda went from there.

So, I guess if it feels good, do it.

Uh...You know I've heard of stories like that. Honest question, did you grow up in different households?

 

[BlackWidower]

it's legal in California to marry your cousins...

Wow that's just wrong, I can't believe that it's legal.

In most of the world it's legal. Incest, in most countries, means fucking a close family member. That means brother, sister, half-brother or sister, mother, father, son, daughter, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, grandparent, grandchild.

The United States is, I think, the only one where cousin counts, and even then, only first cousins, and not in all states.

 

[Crash 9000]

I've had sex with my sister, kind of, not intercourse, but certainly sexual.
I was around 16 and she was around 15, during summer vacation, we were watching a movie late at night and it kinda went from there.

So, I guess if it feels good, do it.

Uh...You know I've heard of stories like that. Honest question, did you grow up in different households?

No, but our parents divorced when I was 10 and she did spend a lot longer with my father than I did, if that has anything to do with it.

 

[BlackWidower]

I've had sex with my sister, kind of, not intercourse, but certainly sexual.
I was around 16 and she was around 15, during summer vacation, we were watching a movie late at night and it kinda went from there.

So, I guess if it feels good, do it.

Uh...You know I've heard of stories like that. Honest question, did you grow up in different households?

No, but our parents divorced when I was 10 and she did spend a lot longer with my father than I did, if that has anything to do with it.

No, I'm thinking of the Westermarck effect, which typically counteracts Genetic Sexual Attraction. It's a visceral "yuck" feeling one would typically get in that scenario, due to the fact that you two grew up together. Also applies to those who are adopted.

Okay, from a purely intellectual standpoint I kinda want more information. You said sexual, not intercourse, so what? Oral?

What about the aftermath? Were things weird between you two?

If you don't want to share I understand. I'm just curious.

NB: Don't get the wrong idea, my curiosity is purely intellectual. I know with topics like this you might presume my motivations are more prurient. I swear they're not. I find odd stuff like this fascinating. Especially as a writer of fiction.