So, it looks like the L4D2 boycott will die

[JaredXE]

L4D was a mostly finished experiment, a "Hey, could we really make this?". When it hit and became successful, Valve already had the groundwork laid out for a more solid game. Enter L4D2, which will most likely connect with the first game and quite frankly I hope shut the traps of all the whiny people complaining.

You are complaining that a sequel to a highly successful game is being released....wow. What spoiled little children you sound like. It doesn't matter what Newell said. He could have mispoke, could have been talking about L4D2, could have even been lying his ass off...and it doesn't matter because until the DLC actually appears, you aren't owed shit.

"But he PROMISED!" Grow up. What, never been expecting something and then had it not appear? It happens, and in fact I would have to say that L4D2 probably IS going to contain a lot of what was promised, or maybe they are going to release more DLC for L4D after 2's been released and they are just being tight-lipped. Until it happens, shut up and play the game you have and be happy that it's a good, fun game that you happen to actually LIKE since you are bitching so hard about it.

It always amazes me how people will crawl out of the woodwork like little termites and complain about something they haven't even experienced yet but have only heard about. Go join Fox News with the rest of the conclusion-jumping lynch mobs.

 

[HEXYDEZiMAL]

Yeah, it sure makes us sound like spoiled children for expecting grown adults who represent a multi-million dollar corporation to keep to what they say. Gabe Newell didn't misspeak, he repeated it in different interviews at different times, as illustrated above. No matter how much you dismiss or slander us, everybody else should be holding them accountable as well.

Protests are what show that you really give any kind of shit about what is being protested. I've bought far more Valve games than Left 4 Dead, and I'm sure I'm not alone in saying that it's high time something like this happened. This has been going on for quite some time with them, it's just the first time that something like this has happened.

As I also showed, Valve stated that their promises were inclusive with the product I bought. Normally, it wouldn't be unreasonable to have one's expectations let down, but in this case it was systematic bullshit, concocted at the same time that they were hatching a sequel.

I recommend you come up with something better than generalizations and baseless personal attacks the next time you deal with me.

 

[Danny Skonez]

I only read the first page, sorry brain started to hurt,and I came to a simple conclsion based ona question to the boycoppers, sorry boycotters.

Ever hear of Peter Molyneux head of Lion Head Creator of Fable?

 

[HEXYDEZiMAL]

I'm well aware of Molyneux's crap, as well. In his case, he tends to talk up what the game will be capable of and then fail to deliver.

In this case, it's kind of an anti-Molyneux. Left 4 Dead was a better game pre-release, and the major failure to deliver has been in Valve living up to what they said afterward, not in something that was necessarily wrong with the product itself at release.

 

[JaredXE]

Again, have you seen the game? Do you work at Valve and know what they are doing? Then why are you complaining about something that hasn't even hit the shelves yet? And it's Valve, they take forever to put together small episodes of content, let alone full games. Is that an excuse? No, but it should be taken into account that it can take quite awhile for code to be slung and to make it sound like the people of Valve are all trying to snake their hands down your pants to reach your wallet is quite disingenuous.

That L4D2 was being created while they were releasing the first one sounds like they realized that their experiment was going to pay off due to the hype surrounding it and are pushing through their more solid and polished copy. But until you know EXACTLY what is going to be released on L4D2 and whether or not they are supporting their first game, complaining about it really does make it sound like you don't know what you're talking about but you're going to jump to conclusions anyways.

 

[Danny Skonez]

Fable 2 was atleast decent, I personally only baught my 360 as a chance to play that mofo. Well Vale made some promises,Molyneuz made some promises. So they didn't deliver on most, both are still fun games. If you don't like it how about you spend years learning coding, modleing, drawing, balancing, and many other aspects of video games, then go and make one yourself and follow thourgh with each promise of a game you make. Oh and be worth multi millions.

 

[HEXYDEZiMAL]

You're not quite getting it, JaredXE.

I don't need to see their newest game to hold them accountable for what they're doing with the last one.

We are not boycotting Left 4 Dead 2 because we think it's going to be some kind of horrible product, we're boycotting it because Left 4 Dead was not what it should've been, not what it was supposed to be, and it still isn't. It's still bug-ridden, as well.

It's not like we can go back and boycott what we already bought, is it? So we have to move on to the next.

It's not disingenuous at all to say that they were likely after the money in this case. The mere beginning of development of Left 4 Dead 2 before the release of Left 4 Dead -- despite the promises they made and their statement of those promises being inclusive in the product -- exemplifies that those of us who purchased Left 4 Dead have been screwed for the money that a sequel would bring. If you seriously buy Valve's little story about Gabe getting slightly irritated at a sequel but letting it go anyway, I don't know what to tell you. Anything that Gabe Newell doesn't like at Valve doesn't happen. If he seriously didn't like the idea at all, it wouldn't have ever started development in the first place.

It's also not unreasonable to have expected Left 4 Dead to have been a polished, solid game, given how long Valve takes to develop things. Being a test subject for one of their game development experiments is not what I expect from Valve, and that's why I'm not putting up with it.

 

[Cartman2nd]

I'll definitely buy L4D2.....after Half Life 2 Episode 3 comes out.

+1

You are so right.

 

[JaredXE]

Yeah...what bugs now? I own the PC copy since release, and my friend owns both that and the 360 version. We have played it a lot....no bugs. Then again, to be fair, we don't do versus since it's too boring. Quite frankly, I have felt I got my money's worth and I think all my other friends who own it feel the same.

And no, I don't buy Gabe being slightly irritated and all that because it's the first I've heard of it. Most people don't pay attention to every little thing that developers and heads of corporations say and do, even if they are a fan of the product. For the vast majority(read: people who will still buy the game inspite of your boycott) of people, all they know of a game is the hype pre-release to let them know it's something they may be interested in, previews/reviews by whatever hack they enjoy reading, then either rental or purchase due to a combo of the previous hype and review. It's usually a fire-and-forget type of purchase. Yeah, they may be pointed to new content when it's released, but do you think the majority of players of ANY game demand more than what they payed for?

But for some reason your group feels special and so demand that all new content be included in what they had previously bought. As if you're entitled to extra servings past what you payed for.

It must be getting late because I suddenly and delieriously realised it's like alimony. You are accustomed to certain things, but suddenly it ends and you demand more simply because it's what you expect and are accustomed to. You payed for exactly the disc that was in the case, no more no less. This isn't like Capcom making you pay to unlock stuff that is already on the disc, Valve is adding extra things to what you payed for because it's good for the community and it's good for their rep. If you disagree with the content that was on the disc you bought and feel it wasn't worth the money you paid, then why are you not demanding that Valve refund your money....hell, it's more likely they would refund you than halt release on L4D2 or whatever it is your group is demanding......

Wait, WHAT is your group demanding? To fix bugs...ok, they are doing that already. For more content....again, they are doing that. What exactly is the end result that the boycott wants to see, because that actually is a pretty good question and could lead to an actual resolution.

 

[NotAPie]

Its not dead yet, Besides I'm pretty sure valve just did that to shut them up...
Something I would have done.
*shakes fist*

 

[HEXYDEZiMAL]

Well, JaredXE... I don't see a point in responding to your full post, because you didn't have the patience to read over what's already been said. You seemingly refuse to believe anything I say in this -- despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary -- so there's really not much further point in explanation when I've done so much of that already.

Valve is not fixing the bugs, as seen here and cited repeatedly:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=751344

Documented exploits are on there. That proves you wrong just through its existence and how little has been done about it. The so-called 'patches' for Left 4 Dead have been very slim in content, overall, if you examine them.

Not only that, but Crash Course -- as mentioned on the first page -- is content they already had. That is to say that it's nothing new, it's just something we didn't get in the first place, because it didn't make the cut to release. This is nothing you should be cheering for Valve for, it's a half-assed, last-ditch attempt to pander to those who believe everything they say -- hook, line, and sinker.

They knew at release that Left 4 Dead 2 was coming out, and I've shown that Valve has practically ignored Left 4 Dead both bugfix wise, and content wise (several very major TF2 content updates have come out during Left 4 Dead's lifespan, to give an example).

It all comes down to one question: "If you had known that a far superior product in Left 4 Dead 2 (that may support all of Left 4 Dead's levels) was going to be released less than a year away, would you have bought Left 4 Dead in the first place?"

If I had known that, I certainly wouldn't have. At the very least, Valve owes some kind of mass apology to all of us for being knowingly two-faced in making promises that would never come true, in order to talk up an already inferior product so that we'd all buy it at that time.

I honestly don't give a shit that I don't have DLC. I care that they lied through their teeth with these promises to sell me something worse when they already had something better in the works. It's the principle of the matter, because I expect way better from Valve.

 

[Spineyguy]

I'm glad the boycott is going down. It was pointless anyway.

There wasn't a single person I asked who said that they joined the boycott for the right reason, everyone just said "HERPA DERP DERP, I JOINED 'CAUSE EVERYONE ELSE HAS!"

So what if Valve released a new game instead of DLC for the old one. At the end of the day, Valve is a business, businesses have to make money, and releasing heaps of free content for their games is not as big a money spinner as a new game is. Personally, I think L4D2 looks like it could be brilliant, the additions they'v made to the winning formula of L4D look as though they'll work fine, and it'll present fans of the first game with a challenge to master the second one. Rather than more campaigns for the old one.

Just having lots of new content for L4D wouldn't work, since it would only take the majority of players 5 minutes to master them. L4D2, on the other hand, has lots of new challenges all at once, which'll present more of a variation.

And the mass exodus from the Boycott groups just goes to show how committed those people were to the cause. If all it takes for you to quite the group is one new campaign, then you clearly weren't all that serious about it in the first place.

 

[HEXYDEZiMAL]

There's only one boycott group that I'm aware of, and there's been no mass exodus.

Nor was it pointless in the first place. If you examine the evidence and their actions, you can only really conclude that you've been lied to about the content to come at the time that Valve sold you an inferior product, and they knew it. There's no way this isn't the case, and their statements that they'll continue supporting Left 4 Dead are all a bunch of bullshit in light of their actions for the last nine months. In comparison to say, TF2, Left 4 Dead has received an absolutely pathetic amount of support. None of the content they stated was upcoming has been delivered.

With all that and given their huge lack of attention to even fixing Left 4 Dead's large list of bugs and exploits, I'm going to take an educated guess that they had no intention of fulfilling their commitment in the first place.

The interview with Leonard that I caught where he dismissed the question of them doing so is even more proof of that.

If anything, there should be more people pissed off about this than just me.

 

[Woodsey]

I think people need to have more faith in Valve, admittedly they seem to join a separate timeline to the rest of the world when they make a game, but they're bloody good. They've done a lot for the PC market, they run the excellent Steam service and they have some excellent deals (the Orange Box, anyone?).

Everyone's so quick to slag them off when they're some of the best around, and I believe that they're still releasing DLC for L4D as well as developing the new game. And isn't the latest DLC free for PC gamers? and the only reason it isn't for 360 owners is because Microsoft require them to put a cost on it?

I think it'd be interesting to see how many people who joined the boycott actually don't buy the game.

 

[HEXYDEZiMAL]

No, I think my faith in Valve is just about done.

If you ask me, I think I've had more than enough faith in Valve as it is. They're incredibly slow, they're overly promising or secretive about things they shouldn't be, they lie about things (remember the infamous HL2 release date one), and so on.

I don't care if the games are absolutely amazing, Left 4 Dead is proving to be the end of me and them.

 

[Cartman2nd]

No, I think my faith in Valve is just about done. If you ask me, I think I've had more than enough faith in Valve as it is. They're incredibly slow, they're secretive, they lie about things (anybody remember the infamous HL2 release date one), and so on.

I don't care if the games are absolutely amazing, Left 4 Dead is proving to be the end of me and them.

I agree with all your posts in every single possible way. *stops kissing ass*

To all non-believers:

Yes, we do have a right to complain. Valve has just straight out lied to us, in our faces. They promised new boss infected. Did we get 'em? No, but that's ok isn't it? Wait, no it isn't. If they weren't sure about the DLC, they shouldn't have told us they were gonna give it to us. I rest my case.

 

[HEXYDEZiMAL]

As an addendum to this topic, I'd like to point out that Valve has just recently updated TF2 twice (today, August 14th, and yesterday, August 13th). So for those that still don't believe me about how much Valve doesn't give a shit about Left 4 Dead:

Number of items changed or fixed in Left 4 Dead updates since November 25, 2008: 172
Average changes and fixes per month: 20

Number of items changed or fixed in Team Fortress 2 updates since February 24, 2009: 273
Average changes and fixes per month: 50

Recall the list of bugs I've posted, and start wondering why TF2 isn't even just getting balance changes and bugfixes -- but also plenty of added DLC and features -- when Left 4 Dead is that broke and hasn't even received a sliver of the same amount of content. Or even why Gabe Newell refuses comment on where the hell Episode 3 has somewhere fallen off the earth at.

 

[Haydyn]

L4D2 just doesn't look appealing to me. I have yet to play L4D for longer than an hour or two, but since they are only a year apart, it doesn't seem like anything would be added. They are really hyping the use of melee weapons, but that's just a standard part of FPSs.

So while I was never part of the boycott, I did support their cause.

 

[Bigeyez]

As an addendum to this topic, I'd like to point out that Valve has just recently updated TF2 twice (today, August 14th, and yesterday, August 13th). So for those that still don't believe me about how much Valve doesn't give a shit about Left 4 Dead:

Number of items changed or fixed in Left 4 Dead updates since November 25, 2008: 172
Average changes and fixes per month: 20

Number of items changed or fixed in Team Fortress 2 updates since February 24, 2009: 273
Average changes and fixes per month: 50

Recall the list of bugs I've posted, and start wondering why TF2 isn't even just getting balance changes and bugfixes -- but also plenty of added DLC and features -- when Left 4 Dead is that broke and hasn't even received a sliver of the same amount of content. Or even why Gabe Newell refuses comment on where the hell Episode 3 has somewhere fallen off the earth at.

I think you've already made it clear that your not buying L4D2, no need to keep bumping up a thread that pretty much you are the only person keeping alive.

Valve is a business. You believed every word the business told you and you feel you got screwed for it. *gasp* Welcome to Capitalism.

 

[Katana314]

Hey, Hexy. Just letting you know you're not alone here.

To those who don't know, I'm a boycotter too. If you're going to call me a whiner, I guess I'll once again pull out my book of analogies. Listen close, children!

COMING THIS SUMMER...LOST PLANET 2: EVEN EXTREMER CONDITION!
1: Meh. I bought the first Lost Planet, but...honestly, I was wishing for more.
2: WHAT? You're GETTING more! It's a new game!
1: Yeah, but what about the DLC they promised? (okay, it's not a perfect analogy, bear with me)
2: They never PROMISED more DLC!
1: ...Yeah they did.
3: Dude, stop being such a freaking whiner.
1: What? I'm just SAYING I'm not going to buy Lost Planet 2 because I didn't see a lot in the first one! I never WHINED about it! I'm just stating my side!
2: You need to have a bit more faith in this company.
1: WHY? Because they made a cool game? There are hundreds of companies making 'cool games'! That doesn't mean they can suddenly conduct unethical business practice, like lying to their customers!

See, you sort of need to step away from the viewpoint for a sec. You know all those AAA games you don't know why everyone else likes? Were you one of those guys who thought Halo 1 was awesome but that the others were boring and sold out to multiplayer? Now you might know how we feel.