So, it looks like the L4D2 boycott will die

Recommended Videos

YuheJi

New member
Mar 17, 2009
927
0
0
Cilliandrew said:
It's not rocket-science to understand where the haters are coming from, guys. Once that sequel hits, the community for the first game will go kaput, because let's face it: they're already producing a sequel because they know the initial product was flawed.
It's also not rocket science to see that good multiplayer shooters tend to keep their communities. People still play CS 1.6, Quake 2, Call of Duty 1, and hell, even the original Doom. Obviously you think L4D is a good game to some extent, or else you wouldn't care about it. There are lots of people that think it is a good game. What makes you think that the community will be gone?
 

Cilliandrew

New member
Jul 10, 2009
455
0
0
YuheJi said:
Cilliandrew said:
It's not rocket-science to understand where the haters are coming from, guys. Once that sequel hits, the community for the first game will go kaput, because let's face it: they're already producing a sequel because they know the initial product was flawed.
It's also not rocket science to see that good multiplayer shooters tend to keep their communities. People still play CS 1.6, Quake 2, Call of Duty 1, and hell, even the original Doom. Obviously you think L4D is a good game to some extent, or else you wouldn't care about it. There are lots of people that think it is a good game. What makes you think that the community will be gone?
Time. Time and support. All of those other games mentioned had time to develop communities. They had time to be THE game of the series, or the genre. They had the tools available FOR the community to build things up for itself.
 

AceDiamond

New member
Jul 7, 2008
2,293
0
0
HEXYDEZiMAL said:
We currently have 41,396 members in the group, and like myself, you have to assume that at least some of those are quite serious.
Yeah well we all know what happens when you assume. So let me put things in perspective.

Number of Copies of L4D sold at Retail as of March 2009: 2.5 Million
Number of Boycotters: about 42,000 (i'm being generous)
Percentage of boycotters out of L4D retail copies sold: 1.8 percent

Well look at that; you're just a drop in the bucket. In fact, this is even without all the sales through Steam, which means that 1.8 perceent is probably a lot lower. Maybe even less than 1%.

To continue, I doubt the "seriousness" of this group considering the following

1. Mass-spammed invites
2. Greifing of L4D servers because people won't join your little club.

So in effect you're basically a group of e-terrorists or e-terrorist harborers, with a manifesto based on knee-jerk reactions and half-truths. You're like PETA for idiot gamers. You're mad because you didn't get 10 weapons like an ad after the demo of L4D promised you would? you do realize that demos do not represent a finished product all the time, right? Or do you just pretend to know how the industry works like most of your ilk. By the way I bet I can mention 10 weapons in L4D

1. Pistol
2. Uzi
3. Pump-Action Shotgun
4. M-16
5. Hunting Rifle
6. Automatic Shotgun
7. Molotov Cocktail
8. Pipe Bomb
9. Mounted Minigun
10. Gasoline Can
11. Propane Tank

...wow look at that. 11. 11 weapons. I didn't even have to fudge this list a bit by putting in melee strikes and the second pistol. Was that so hard? I didn't think so. Then again I took the time to think for a second unlike you.



And even if I'm wrong about the context it doesn't really matter because again, it was for a demo. A demo which does not represent the completed project. And apparently you think that an ad equals a promise. That a demo equals a promise. That a plan created before the game hit shelves equals a promise. That the first draft of a design document equals a promise. It doesn't. Plans do not always survive intact. Design documents get changed. If nothing ever changed then Deus Ex would have still been named Troubleshooter and would've been more like System Shock instead of its own property. System Shock 2 would have never happened, and many other games never would've seen the light of day if they stuck to one vision statement and remained immovable and unwavering.

And if you honestly think your causes are valid, then nobody else sure does. The press for one, thinks you're mostly a bunch of self-entitled brats. And really, you are. I should know, I've been here since the start of this stupid movement. I told people who were bitching about things like "we haven't even gotten the SDK yet" that not only had they got the SDK (it had been in beta form for a month before L4D2 was announced), but that they were reacting to something without having any level of information about it. I believe their response was something I hadn't heard since I was in 6th grade which was something along the lines of "shut up you ******, take Newell's dick out of your mouth". It was at that point I knew that nobody with a brain would be leading the charge to be given an entire game's worth of content for free. And that belief has held out. Nevermind the fact that it has been said time and again that the changes they are implementing in L4D2 are too numerous and vast to justify free release, nevermind the fact that the SDK for L4D1 works for L4D2, nevermind the fact they're working on making the two games have interchangeable content, nevermind the fact they're making another campaign specifically geared for versus mode, no, you want what you think you've earned. You've earned nothing. Valve has been nothing but good to its customers and now, just because you can't get a full game for free, you think you're in the right? You couldn't be farther from the truth. This isn't even about defending Valve from my perspective, this is about defending all of gaming from the whiny "what about meeeee" crowd. We don't need people like that. Ever. And don't try to tell me you're any different. All you've been doing here is complaining that we don't understand and that Valve is a bunch of liars and so on and so forth using news items that are old and at this point apocryphal in an effort to mislead. I have had zero bug problems with L4D1 so far, and even if I did they'd probably have been fixed by now.


HEXYDEZiMAL said:
I'm sorry, but that isn't at all how it's been working. Many of them have not only inaccurately depicted the boycott, but negatively painted it. There was another one of those just recently in Game Informer. For much of the negative comments, nobody from the boycott has been allowed to speak in return. That's not doing a service to the customers who put this all together because we were unhappy, it's being a corporate shill who's afraid to bite the game developer. Glancing in the group just now, we apparently just got spammed again as well.
It's really entertaining that you seem to think the actions of a company are open for debate as if we were talking about North Korea. Hell I heard one of your fellow boycotters once say that the manifesto was just jumping off point for haggling, as if L4D2 was a used car, which it isn't. If you're wondering why you're not allowed to speak in return it might be because there has been nothing unfair in the way the boycott has been painted. I have heard zero rational arguments from the group and the only stories I have heard are ones of griefing and other generally reprehensible actions just because you can't get the entire userbase of L4D to jump on your bandwagon. And now you're paying the price by having everything your group did come right back at you tenfold. Not that I condone any group being spammed because it makes the opposition look just as bad, but I guess you open yourself up for that when you generally wreck other people's good time online in an attempt to stir up support. Don't know how that works though, people usually look down on others wrecking their game on purpose.

And before someone says I'm being a bully, just remember. They fired the first shot. The boycotters decided to play dirty first, and now that they're on the receiving end they can't handle it, which of course figures. Those in the wrong can never handle a taste of their own medicine. And I intend to make sure the boycotters continue to choke on their own words until the group disbands in disgrace. So cry some more if you want, it only sustains me. It also sustains the pre-orders for L4D2, which are twice as much as they had been for L4D1 at the same stage of the pre-release cycle as of last month (source: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/l4d2-pre-orders-twice-that-of-original ). Still think you're winning and making strides now? I sure hope not, but I know you are. You're too committed to this movement to back out and say "well maybe I overreacted". Hell I'm not even saying you have to buy the game, that's your right to decide whether or not you want to. What I am saying though is that there is no excuse for trying to force a company to give you a full game for free just because they didn't 100% deliver on what they said they were going to do before the game was even done. It is your own fault for making unrealistic expectations when I'm sure in the back of your mind you knew that no one company has ever 100% delivered on everything. And now you want them to capitulate to you, as if you somehow wield some power, as if you're owed something. Nobody owes you a thing: not me, not the press, not Valve, nobody.

"The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously. " - Hubert H. Humphrey, US Vice President (1964-1968)
 

FightThePower

The Voice of Treason
Dec 17, 2008
1,716
0
0
I love the fact that people say that L4D2 could have been released as DLC, which is very true. But if it was DLC we would have to wait about 4 or 5 years for them to eventually trickle out everything new if it was free. But instead we get it in a year and have to pay for it.

I have no problem with that.

The split community thing makes more sense but the L4D1 SDK is compatible with L4D2 basically meaning you can produce a map now for L4D1 and it would work with L4D2 when it comes out. That weakens their argument a bit.
 

adledog

New member
Dec 28, 2008
136
0
0
I don't get why this is a problem. Seeing how Valve is releasing L4D content this close to L4D2 its pretty obvious theyre still gonna do what they had planned after its been released. And besides everybodys acting like you can only play L4D or L4D2. No matter what happens there are gonna be people playing both games so it doesn't really matter which one you choose.
 

Boxpopper

New member
Feb 5, 2009
376
0
0
Douk said:
Its because she's a girl. Yep, give a girl a gun and prepare to die in a zombie apocalypse.

All joking aside, Valve fans are the whiniest whiners ever, second only to Super Smash Bros fans. I should know I'm fans of both games but really the developers don't have a 'moral obligation' or a 'promise' to carry out, they can do whatever the hell they want because its, just a game. I don't really understand why they're so riled up about one game anyways, the only type of gamer I hate more than the 'hey guys can you hear me' is the "I only play this game cause its the bestest".

/rant
You would have a point, if Valve hadn't vocally promised that the reason the game would seem a bit diminished is because they would be releasing free content packs later.
 

GonzoGamer

New member
Apr 9, 2008
7,063
0
0
That took way to long. That notion should've died the week after e3.

To be honest I didn't even like the first one that much. The second one looks much better.
 

The Austin

New member
Jul 20, 2009
3,368
0
0
Boxpopper said:
Douk said:
Its because she's a girl. Yep, give a girl a gun and prepare to die in a zombie apocalypse.

All joking aside, Valve fans are the whiniest whiners ever, second only to Super Smash Bros fans. I should know I'm fans of both games but really the developers don't have a 'moral obligation' or a 'promise' to carry out, they can do whatever the hell they want because its, just a game. I don't really understand why they're so riled up about one game anyways, the only type of gamer I hate more than the 'hey guys can you hear me' is the "I only play this game cause its the bestest".

/rant
Lol I ask if people can hear me all the time.
 

Ranthus

New member
Mar 7, 2009
129
0
0
I don't care if they come out in the same month, I'm still buying L4D 2 and the L4D 1 DLC. And I don't like L4D2 boycotters. The only way to get the new content is to buy the new game, so why not? It's not like Valve has done this before, releasing a "clone" of a game they released a year ago. Or that they're going to change their minds. Plus, where would us L4D 360 owners be? I can't imagine what would happen...TF2 360 again?
 

Boxpopper

New member
Feb 5, 2009
376
0
0
I'll still side with the boycotters, because its about time somebody started using capitalism correctly. It's not the point of the free market to put up with everything just because you want something that bad. We are supposed to make demands, and the companies are supposed to meet them if they want our money.

I still don't give a shit about either game though.
 

Deleted

New member
Jul 25, 2009
4,054
0
0
Boxpopper said:
Douk said:
Its because she's a girl. Yep, give a girl a gun and prepare to die in a zombie apocalypse.

All joking aside, Valve fans are the whiniest whiners ever, second only to Super Smash Bros fans. I should know I'm fans of both games but really the developers don't have a 'moral obligation' or a 'promise' to carry out, they can do whatever the hell they want because its, just a game. I don't really understand why they're so riled up about one game anyways, the only type of gamer I hate more than the 'hey guys can you hear me' is the "I only play this game cause its the bestest".

/rant
You would have a point, if Valve hadn't vocally promised that the reason the game would seem a bit diminished is because they would be releasing free content packs later.
I understand, didn't catch Valve saying that. Well I don't understand why they're actually getting MAD over it. If there will be free DLC in the future then fine, they don't have a problem waiting for other companies to dish it out. I'm still buying L4D2 because I don't own the first one (rented it for 2 weeks) and there probably won't be any of these whiners in the game.
 

TheNumber1Zero

Forgot to Remember
Jul 23, 2009
7,345
0
0
well,it was about no more dlc,then they get more dlc.

if they continue they wil look like bigger Idiots,so yeah,It is dead.
 

Left4Meds

New member
Jul 9, 2009
415
0
0
Boycott should die out about now, seeing as how Valve has already fixed everything they complained about.

They complained the modding community would be torn into two.
WRONG.
Valve added so now the new campaigns can still be played on L4D2 as well as survival maps.

They also claimed since it has only been a year of work the game would need to be delayed.
WRONG.
Valve asked the community to have trust in them for a good game.

They complained that there wasn't enough content for a new game and should be DLC.
WRONG.
At the E3 and Comic Con, they revealed new information that make this a definate non DLC
Grenade Launchers, Sniper Rifles, Two NEW Zombie classes, enhanced AI director, a destructable bridge depending on how well teams are doing, AK-47's, SPAZ Shotguns,
Wandering witches, Bright daylight levels, new cresendo events that make survivors move around.

L4D2 Boycotter's are worthless now seeing all this new content.
 

Elurindel

New member
Dec 12, 2007
711
0
0
T3h Camp3r T3rr0r1st said:
scnj said:
HEXYDEZiMAL said:
T3h Camp3r T3rr0r1st said:
I don't care, I'm a PC user and we're getting it for free anyway! /evil laugh!
I assume you're speaking of Left 4 Dead 2 so uh... no. Left 4 Dead 2 is going to be $50 (likely $60 in a box).

You might have some inkling of pirating it, but like L4D1, it will no doubt do all of its matchmaking through Steam, meaning that you won't be playing the best part of Left 4 Dead 2 online with a pirated copy. Steam-involved multiplayer makes piracy a waste of time.
I think he's referring to the fact that the DLC is free on PC while costing 560 points on the Xbox. Might be wrong though.
you're right the other guy's an idiot because we were talking about the DLC!
Indeed! Long live free DLC for the PC! Mwahahahahahaaaa...ha...ha...aha...
 

MercenaryCanary

New member
Mar 24, 2008
1,777
0
0
I actually liked the longer maps... what the fuck.
I'd be fine if the map thing was about 3 maps long, but seriously? Two maps? It's... just not right.

EDIT: On the other hand, it's free DLC, so I shouldn't be complaining.
 

HEXYDEZiMAL

New member
Aug 11, 2009
44
0
0
Here goes. Let's see if my boycott e-terrorism is justified or not, shall we?

"What happened to our DLC, Valve?"

Chet Faliszek

Keeping on the online bonanza, writer Chet Faliszek said that Valve plans to get the DLC rolling much more quickly with Left 4 Dead than it has been able to for Team Fortress 2. Plans already in the works call for new campaigns, weapons, and boss infected (the game's zombie enemies). In addition, there were strong hints at a flamethrower coming not long after launch. The company plans to add new scenarios to the game's initial 4, as well as new bosses and weapons. "There were strong hints at a flamethrower coming not long after launch," 1UP reported after talking to Faliszek. The Valve writer also promised that the studio aims to make that DLC available more quickly than they have done with Team Fortress 2.

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169669

Note: Read that one again.

Doug Lombardi
He goes on to point out the Valve credo of free content after a game's release, saying that "once [the customer is] in the park, they can ride any ride they want in the park. So, for us that's been the philosophy." He also pointed out that even though DLC takes time and resources to develop, free content helps promote a positive image of the company. "For us, we see it as an investment on our next product," he said. "Gamers won't hesitate when they see a game coming out from Valve."

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3166784

"Our philosophy there is, if you buy the product, we put more content out to keep the game interesting, we sell more products. Counter-Strike is number one and has been since '99 because we kept the game interesting, not because we tried to charge people more, and that's come back in sales of Counter-Strike."

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/valve-we-wont-charge-for-downloadable-content

Gabe Newell
"So we'll do the same thing with Left 4 Dead where we'll have the initial release and then we'll release more movies, more characters, more weapons, unlockables, achievements, because that's the way you continue to grow a community over time."

http://www.videogamer.com/news/valve_details_post_left_4_dead_launch_plans.html

"So with Team Fortress 2, our product that's furthest along in terms of doing that, we found that the best way to get new customers was to get excited existing customers. And the best way to do that was to release new maps, new weapons, add achievements. They're really interested in the characters and the story behind them. We still need to release these boxes, these point releases, but as we continue to release new campaigns, new characters, new weapons, and tell stories about these characters, that's the best way to grow the community. So we're taking the same approach that we've taken with Team Fortress 2, and doing that for Left 4 Dead."

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/turtle-rock-project/902345p3.html

"We fully intend to do that with Left 4 Dead as well -- [make] movies about each of the characters and how they came together as a team; what happened with the world when everything became Infected; [and] release new characters, new weapons, new campaigns -- and just view it as an ongoing audience-development content stream."

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3170080

"Valve's focus this year is Left 4 Dead."

http://www.1up.com/do/feature?pager.offset=1&cId=3170080

Note: Oops, he must've forgot the 2, as Left 4 Dead 2 has been confirmed to be in development at the time Left 4 Dead was released.

Robin Walker
"You buy the product, you get the content. We make more money because more people buy it, not because we try and nickel-and-dime the same customers."

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/valve-we-wont-charge-for-downloadable-content


"What happened to the Left 4 Dead I bought, Valve?

Gabe Newell

"When we went into the safehouse, we put up a bunch of information about who had the most headshots, who rescued people the most, the game tracks all of this information about how each person is doing, and that becomes part of your profile."

Note: This information was not a part of one's profile until the Survival Pack, almost half a year later. The PC Left 4 Dead does not post all of this information after every level either, despite that it can. Instead, it's a highly simplistic list that saw no changes from what was likely intended for the 360. In fact, anybody who's seen them both can tell you that Left 4 Dead for the PC has practically nothing of significance to offer over the 360 copy. The PC version is more like a 360 port than a separate version.

"You have a variety of weapon choices that you can select. It's very important for a team to be balanced. One team member, for example, may handle long-range threats, but they can easily be overwhelmed. So it's important to have somebody else with a different short-range weapon. If everybody picks the same weapon, your team is going to be very unbalanced, so you really want your people to have a mix of weapons."

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/turtle-rock-project/902345p3.html

The Hands-On Beta Preview
MANY of these changes would've made the game better or more interesting if they'd been kept.

As documented here about Left 4 Dead's beta:
http://left4dead411.com/left-4-dead-preview-index

Accuracy relative to movement seems to have mattered more.

At least one of the shotguns (the pump variety) used to be almost useless at far range, and more powerful up close. This would've been a nice change to both of them, to be honest, because the auto shotgun has been overly accurate at a distance since release.

Boomers dealt radius damage when exploded, and Boomer bile was blood.

Doors used to require being locked by the Survivors, instead of being magically locked all the time. Only some doors were lockable.

Smokers pulled faster, and the pull used to poison the victim's health into temporary health based on distance. That is, on a full pull -- where the victim pulled to the Smoker -- the Survivor's entire health became temporary. Smokers also had a secondary ability to make a cloud of smoke that obscured things inside of it. (I'm sure it's not just my opinion that both of these would've been so much more useful than the Smoker's current iteration of being an often useless one-trick pony that can only really hope to pull Survivors off of heights.)

Survivors used to be able to get blood and guts splattered all over the level and themselves.

Survivors used to be able to temporarily vote ban certain Survivors from using grenade weapons.

The AI Director worked better at doing what it was supposed to, rather than the boring random zombies peppered with an occasional Horde that it is today. It used to be possible to see no zombies at all for a while. The current way it works is tiresome and/or annoying.

The pipebomb dealt substantial direct damage, instead of diverting a horde.

The Tank's frustration bar used to be based on keeping visual on the Survivors, and not just attacking them. (This would've led to tanks that had to be in visual almost all of the time, instead of the poke out and toss rocks crap that usually happens at the end of Death Toll.)

There used to be a demerit system for doing things that could be regarded as griefing (like friendly fire, opening the safe room door for infected, etc.). There used to be a reputation system that went with the demerits and enabled the ability to get negative stats for griefing. The stats for it used to be displayed at the end of the level, and players used to be able to view your negative reputation when you first joined.

There was chameleon-like camouflage for Hunters, and they had a lunge that could knock Survivors back significantly if it hit.

There were two tanks at the same time during finales.

The rescue vehicles had miniguns on them. Note: WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THIS?

Weapons could be given to teammates.

Witches attacked all the survivors (instead of the still buggy witch we have that attacks nothing at all, roughly half the time). Witches used to track by movement, as well.
 

HEXYDEZiMAL

New member
Aug 11, 2009
44
0
0
I might also note that my last post is nowhere near the full amount of bullshit from Valve.

After all of that, if you guys want, I'll be glad to find comments where they said the SDK was dropping right after release, or that it was coming out of beta in June. The incomplete SDK is presently crippling the community's offerings (often stated by Valve as essential).

After a little of that, you should be far more understanding of what Valve has been pulling, and why we're all so pissed off about it. They've been saying a lot and doing very little of it. The only people who aren't irritated to shit by this situation are essentially the people who either don't know what they're talking about, or those that believe Valve is some kind of saintly deity of all that is good with corporations.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/hexydezimal/stats/L4D

Unlike most of my critics, you can clearly see that I've put more than enough time into this game to comment about it (despite it getting horribly boring in between the times that I feel up to playing it). I've had it since release, and Valve has dropped the ball continually ever since.