So I've Never Had Physical Contact Before...?

[Phoenixlight]

brothels are immoral.

Thefuck? Seriously the fuck!? The fuckidy fuck fuck of fucks?!

Sorry you're going to have to put more thought into a reply if you want a proper response.

In your personal opinion, that is.

In reality they're no different to kmart. Supply and demand. People demand sex, other people supply it for an agreeable payment, all done in a clean, safe environment where there's no chance of pregnancy or stds, and you don't even have to clean up or make awkward conversation over a quick breakfast the next day.

You think there's something more moral and wholesome about, say, going to a pub, meeting a girl, buying them drinks all night then taking them home for sex? Aside from having to clean up your own place, the risk of pregnancy and disease, and that you have no idea how much you're going to be spending on drinks, how is this any different?

It's an objective fact. They are completely different to normal shops and yes it is different to doing that at a pub. Politicians who found to use such places will be stigmatized. If you use one you're a shitty person. No one should have to sell their body to stay alive and people who visit them are only encouraging the cycle of human trafficking to continue. There are many other wrong decisions people make like eating meat but this one is very wrong.

 

[Dastardly]

Your first relationship will not be successful.

Hah, my brother begs to differ.

Still, you're right on the money with the rest, but I think you miss something too; the OP first has to love himself, and only then is he ready to love someone else as well.

Eh, there are always exceptions. But the point is that no one should go into their first relationship expecting it to be "the one." That's not the reason to go in -- it puts unfair pressure on both yourself and the other person. It's about discovering the answers to questions, not looking to find a particular answer (thereby trying to force it). So it's better to go in without expectations, or preconceived notions of "success." And so, as I said earlier, expect that the first relationship will not be "successful."

Additionally, I agree the OP has to learn to "love himself." But that's a result. He's asking for the process. It's like someone that doesn't know math, and they're saying, "How do I learn math?" And we tend to answer, "Just go learn some math, man." The question is how.

And the way to learn to love yourself is to learn about yourself. And the best way to do that is to experience things. Relationships are a fantastic way to learn about yourself via the way you interact with others. They're also a great place to experience a wide range of emotions and learn how well (or how poorly) you handle them.

As long as we don't go into a relationship demanding that it "succeed," or demanding that the other person "be the one," we can learn a lot from the experience without having to hurt one another. There will be hurt, of course, but it's just a side effect of the process -- and an important part of the learning and growing.

Get out there, try relationships, come face-to-face with yourself, learn the things you like and the things you don't, test everything, hold on to the good. Even when we mine gold, it's not beautiful -- we know it's gold, but it doesn't shine until after we've put it to the fire and burned away the garbage.

So, yeah, he needs to learn to love himself. And this is how.

 

[Dastardly]

It's an objective fact. They are completely different to normal shops and yes it is different to doing that at a pub. Politicians who found to use such places will be stigmatized. If you use one you're a shitty person. No one should have to sell their body to stay alive and people who visit them are only encouraging the cycle of human trafficking to continue. There are many other wrong decisions people make like eating meat but this one is very wrong.

You make too many assumptions about everything in your posts. Not the least of which, you make a lot of assumptions about the character of another poster only because they disagree with you. I am not, have never been, nor ever will be a patron of a brothel. However, I recognize that most of them have nothing to do with human trafficking or desperation.

Street prostitution? Totally different -- it's often about desperation, drug money, etc. But brothels? These women have made a clear, reasoned choice to enter into this arrangement because of the frankly insane amount of money they can make, doing something they don't mind doing. They're making a living (by choice) off of their bodies in a way not unlike how a professional athlete chooses to do so.

Someone isn't "shitty" because they choose something that you wouldn't. Regardless of our opinions on brothels, we shouldn't be so quick to claim some imaginary Moral High Ground, from which we look down on all the "shitty" people and their "meat eating." You undermine your own point when you say things that are not true, or overstate a minimal amount of truth (and here's an "objective fact" -- exaggerating is the same as lying).

To my mind, the "shittier" person would be the one who believes his/her opinion is fact, and that everyone should subscribe to it or face summary judgment.

 

[ConstantErasing]

Still in high school myself so I can't contribute too much but I think romance is slightly overrated. I asked a girl out once and she said yes then just decided not to follow up on it. I was disappointed but not heartbroken, so I just thought "ok then I will just wait it out and let things take their natural course". True I don't have a girlfriend because of it but I feel that I am much happier and more stable as a result. So I would say, just let things progress, or do what feels right. A bit cheesy perhaps, or maybe just useless, but it has worked for me.

 

[Giftfromme]

brothels are immoral.

Thefuck? Seriously the fuck!? The fuckidy fuck fuck of fucks?!

Sorry you're going to have to put more thought into a reply if you want a proper response.

In your personal opinion, that is.

In reality they're no different to kmart. Supply and demand. People demand sex, other people supply it for an agreeable payment, all done in a clean, safe environment where there's no chance of pregnancy or stds, and you don't even have to clean up or make awkward conversation over a quick breakfast the next day.

You think there's something more moral and wholesome about, say, going to a pub, meeting a girl, buying them drinks all night then taking them home for sex? Aside from having to clean up your own place, the risk of pregnancy and disease, and that you have no idea how much you're going to be spending on drinks, how is this any different?

It's an objective fact. They are completely different to normal shops and yes it is different to doing that at a pub. Politicians who found to use such places will be stigmatized. If you use one you're a shitty person. No one should have to sell their body to stay alive and people who visit them are only encouraging the cycle of human trafficking to continue. There are many other wrong decisions people make like eating meat but this one is very wrong.

LOOOOL this is just too silly. It's an objective fact? I would try and feel sorry for you for voicing something so dumb, and pity you for arriving at such an opinion, but in fact the opinion is so extreme that it brings to mind an unintentional comedy.

Prostitution has existed and will always exist as a profession. There will always be demand for it. It can be that there are no other jobs and that it is the only option avialable for women. Not all of them choose the profession. It's like saying "why be jobless? Just get a job!" It literally makes no sense.

It is not and cannot be objectively wrong.

 

[ATRAYA]

The key - what I'm assuming you're looking for - is: stop looking. Seriously, just don't look; once that stress and obsession from looking is gone, and you just focus on other things in your life, your future spouse will find you. Nine times out of ten a relationship will fail - whether it be after a week or ten years - if you were actively looking for a partner at the time. And the last couple just stays together out of fear of dying alone. You have to just let it happen, and not waste your time forcing it.

Trust me, ask any couple that is still in love even after sixty years of marriage, and they'll tell you:

1. It's a different kind of love that feels strange, yet better, than the other types of "love" where you were looking for a relationship, and...

2. They were not looking for love at the time.

They'll probably also mention that it was "Love at First Sight", a common, and slightly paranormal, occurrence coupled with true love.

Honestly, you don't really have to do anything, other than (CLICHE INCOMING) just be yourself.

You don't have to listen to me, but when it comes to this subject... let's just say I know what I'm talking about. Good luck!

 

[McFlabbergasty]

I've been thinking about getting into a musical instrument so I can appear cooler and be proficient at something that I can show off to others. Trouble is I've never played a musical instrument before outside of a few failed attempts to play the piano two years ago. I couldn't learn that effectively because I didn't start at an early enough age, according to a band geek friend of mine from grade school.

The thing is, whenever I start doing something, I do it with the intent of becoming the absolute end-all be-all grandmaster who will shame everybody else who tries to come close. I wouldn't be content with being an "OK guitar player" in my hypothetical group of friends. I would rather be, "the mad genius who can cure AIDS with his insane guitar skills." At least then I can have something tangible to pin my identity on. I would very much like a firm stake in the ground that I can hold onto even in troubled times like these.

But I've heard that almost anybody can pick up guitar, even in their twenties and thirties. Is there truth to this claim, guitar-playing Escapists?

More importantly, would it help me towards my goal?

 

[Darh Abdomino]

My advice? Stop caring. It's what I do. Also, take a look at all the stress, all the drama, all the bull and emotional crap that goes hand-in-hand with relationships. Have fun if you decide to go with that, but I'm sticking with apathy and sarcasm.

 

[Khada]

Keep your chin up, and the biggest tip I can give is do NOT come off as needy. That's a huge turn off for potential friends and partners. Be OK with who you are, know you are worthy (but there is always plenty of room for improvement, don't be too cocky) and love yourself.

Also I assume the title was an exaggeration? You would be dead if you had never had post-birth physical contact.

 

[crazyarms33]

I am in my second year of commuting to college and I still am just as much of a virgin as the day I was born. I have always had next to no self-confidence at all, meaning few if any friends. All throughout high school I would think "this is the year I'll have my first kiss with a girl" or "my first relationship" or whatever. I don't understand how everyone else around has such an easy time finding partners. I feel like I've skipped the whole teenager phase of my life and just became a dead-behind-the-eyes old man with regards to this whole love thing.

I tried to ask a girl out in my sophomore year of high school. She said yes, but then nothing came out of it because she kept making excuses to delay the date. We hardly even knew each other. Ever since then I have stopped trying. But I want to ask a girl out again some day.

I'm just sick of this cycle of self-pity and loneliness and depression. I want to experience what relationships are like. Right now I feel so disconnected from the rest of humanity that I actually feel happy when I see or hear about other people breaking up from their relationships. I for one don't see myself as being distraught over a break-up, if I ever get to have one.

Well...generic statement about how relationships aren't all they are cracked up to be. That being said, putting yourself out there is hard. Doing that comes with a potential to be rejected or hurt. The worst thing you can do is to say "fuck it. I'm out." and never try again. As cliche as this is, if you don't think that you can get a girl to go out with you, then why should she think that she should go out with you? Being confident in yourself as a person, whether you're a nerd, jock, hipster or douche is important. Be comfortable with who you are and see where that takes you. If you want to change yourself, go for it. But don't change yourself into something you're not. I mean, I'm an average dude (read: sarcastic ass hole) but I know that and that plays into my confidence. As long as you are comfortable with who you are, other people will be too which can lead to relationships, hookups or whatever it is you are looking for.

 

[brainslurper]

Consider yourself lucky.

 

[brainslurper]

Okay I hate to break it to you but some people die alone. A conversation that nobody wants to hear and they will avoid the subject at all costs. Now what most people say as a response to this is that your to ugly, or your personality sucks. Don't really focus on it and anything is better than swallowing that painful reality. Really give it some time, it will happen. Even if it only happens once, for some guys it does, don't be mad. Was just like you and I had a few good years, now I don't give to shits about women and they can fuck off and die for all I care.

Uh... Thanks for that... Maybe you should keep your opinion to yourself.

 

[Jaythulhu]

In your personal opinion, that is.

In reality they're no different to kmart. Supply and demand. People demand sex, other people supply it for an agreeable payment, all done in a clean, safe environment where there's no chance of pregnancy or stds, and you don't even have to clean up or make awkward conversation over a quick breakfast the next day.

You think there's something more moral and wholesome about, say, going to a pub, meeting a girl, buying them drinks all night then taking them home for sex? Aside from having to clean up your own place, the risk of pregnancy and disease, and that you have no idea how much you're going to be spending on drinks, how is this any different?

It's an objective fact. They are completely different to normal shops and yes it is different to doing that at a pub. Politicians who found to use such places will be stigmatized. If you use one you're a shitty person. No one should have to sell their body to stay alive and people who visit them are only encouraging the cycle of human trafficking to continue. There are many other wrong decisions people make like eating meat but this one is very wrong.

No, I'm sorry, but you're quite wrong here. The pub example is no different. The girl is receiving something in return for sex, which is the basic tenant of prostitution, and the there are far more personal risks involved.

Your arguments about being "having to sell their bodies to stay alive" and all that is spurious at best, facetious at worst. In Australia, we have legal brothels where women can CHOOSE to either work there or not, no different to a McDonalds, law firm or toy shop.

I have no particular desire for a relationship, I'm no longer overly fond of spending a lot of time with one person, I don't drink and I can't stand incredibly loud music, so going to a pub/club and hooking up for a one-night stand or dating in the hope I might eventually get some sex is both a stupid and pointless exercise for me. So yes, I visit brothels on the rare occasion where I have a desire for sexual contact with someone, and I'm certainly not "encouraging people smuggling". I also work incredibly hard to save animals from the nasty shit that people to do them, so who, exactly, do you think you are to call me a "shitty person"? I'm 97.3% sure I'm a provably far better person than you. How about I describe people who use the words "morals" and "values" to justify their opinions, like yourself, as "brain-dead scrotum-suckers"?

Ahem, anyway, saying that I (and people who use the LEGAL services offered by brothels) encourage people smuggling like saying that people who buy jewelry are explicitly encouraging slave labour and genocide in Africa. It's a nonsensical statement that, to be honest, you're quite lucky I didn't rip you a new arsehole for.

Eating meat is also not a "wrong decision". We're omnivores, not herbivores, and meat is an important and necessary part of our diet, but that conversation has absolutely no place in this thread.

As for politicians who visit brothels, if they're married or in a relationship, then yes, they should be ostracised and ridiculed as adulterers. If they're not, then it's no one else's business, and passing judgement on them is the only thing in the whole situation that's "wrong".

 

[Strazdas]

you do know that there is a life outside college too?

Also, whats so important about loosing your virginity? women are not the grail. there are many more important things in life than getting laid. Just stop worrying about it. You will find the girl when it is time for you to.

 

[Cowabungaa]

Your first relationship will not be successful.

Hah, my brother begs to differ.

Still, you're right on the money with the rest, but I think you miss something too; the OP first has to love himself, and only then is he ready to love someone else as well.

Eh, there are always exceptions. But the point is that no one should go into their first relationship expecting it to be "the one." That's not the reason to go in -- it puts unfair pressure on both yourself and the other person. It's about discovering the answers to questions, not looking to find a particular answer (thereby trying to force it). So it's better to go in without expectations, or preconceived notions of "success." And so, as I said earlier, expect that the first relationship will not be "successful."

Additionally, I agree the OP has to learn to "love himself." But that's a result. He's asking for the process. It's like someone that doesn't know math, and they're saying, "How do I learn math?" And we tend to answer, "Just go learn some math, man." The question is how.

And the way to learn to love yourself is to learn about yourself. And the best way to do that is to experience things. Relationships are a fantastic way to learn about yourself via the way you interact with others. They're also a great place to experience a wide range of emotions and learn how well (or how poorly) you handle them.

As long as we don't go into a relationship demanding that it "succeed," or demanding that the other person "be the one," we can learn a lot from the experience without having to hurt one another. There will be hurt, of course, but it's just a side effect of the process -- and an important part of the learning and growing.

Get out there, try relationships, come face-to-face with yourself, learn the things you like and the things you don't, test everything, hold on to the good. Even when we mine gold, it's not beautiful -- we know it's gold, but it doesn't shine until after we've put it to the fire and burned away the garbage.

So, yeah, he needs to learn to love himself. And this is how.

I...well... There's nothing I can add, you're just right, absolutely right.
Kudo's sir, you're damn smart.

 

[Smooth Operator]

But I've heard that almost anybody can pick up guitar, even in their twenties and thirties. Is there truth to this claim, guitar-playing Escapists?

More importantly, would it help me towards my goal?

Seems to me you first need to figure our what your goal is, yes we all want to be supermen but try and fixate on something in close proximity, and when you get there you set another goal.

Learning anything be it playing an instrument, socializing or relationships is just the same, takes a whole lot of practice, we crawl before we walk and we walk before we run and on the way there is no shortage bumps and bruises.
The question is will you push on toward your goal or give up at the first sign of trouble, just always remember people make things looks easy only once there is an incredibly long line of hard work behind them.

 

[Phoenixlight]

No, I'm sorry, but you're quite wrong here. The pub example is no different. The girl is receiving something in return for sex, which is the basic tenant of prostitution, and the there are far more personal risks involved.

Your arguments about being "having to sell their bodies to stay alive" and all that is spurious at best, facetious at worst. In Australia, we have legal brothels where women can CHOOSE to either work there or not, no different to a McDonalds, law firm or toy shop.

I have no particular desire for a relationship, I'm no longer overly fond of spending a lot of time with one person, I don't drink and I can't stand incredibly loud music, so going to a pub/club and hooking up for a one-night stand or dating in the hope I might eventually get some sex is both a stupid and pointless exercise for me. So yes, I visit brothels on the rare occasion where I have a desire for sexual contact with someone, and I'm certainly not "encouraging people smuggling". I also work incredibly hard to save animals from the nasty shit that people to do them, so who, exactly, do you think you are to call me a "shitty person"? I'm 97.3% sure I'm a provably far better person than you. How about I describe people who use the words "morals" and "values" to justify their opinions, like yourself, as "brain-dead scrotum-suckers"?

Ahem, anyway, saying that I (and people who use the LEGAL services offered by brothels) encourage people smuggling like saying that people who buy jewelry are explicitly encouraging slave labour and genocide in Africa. It's a nonsensical statement that, to be honest, you're quite lucky I didn't rip you a new arsehole for.

Eating meat is also not a "wrong decision". We're omnivores, not herbivores, and meat is an important and necessary part of our diet, but that conversation has absolutely no place in this thread.

As for politicians who visit brothels, if they're married or in a relationship, then yes, they should be ostracised and ridiculed as adulterers. If they're not, then it's no one else's business, and passing judgement on them is the only thing in the whole situation that's "wrong".

The reality is that it is 100% completely different to a pub because the both people want to have sex with each other whereas in a brothel the women are forced to have sex with whoever walks through the door. Even if the person is incredibly overweight, ugly or disabled. If they don't have sex with the person the they'll be fired and or beaten by a pimp. Not everyone who works there will want to, some of them will have been trafficked there from other countries and forced to work. The film Taken (2008) shows what I'm talking about quite well.

In a modern society the shitty people shouldn't be allowed to run such things. If you look at a morally superior country like the United Kingdom or Japan you can see that they have advanced to a point where the people in charge have made brothels illegal. I'm not really that surprised by Australia lagging behind but it will get there eventually.

I wasn't calling you specifically a shitty person but if you visit brothels which helps to encourage human trafficking and eat other animals which encourages more of them to be slaughtered then I guess you are. None of the countries of the world have advanced to the point of not eating meat but there are a lot of vegetarians and vegans around the world and fantastic organizations like PETA around. It seems like you're trying to justify some of the immoral activities you enjoy but you can't, some things are just wrong. Well people like me (morally superior) who use words like that use them to show other people (like you) how what you're doing is wrong and shouldn't be tolerated. Calling people who stand up for what's right names just makes you look stupid and desperate.

Seems like you are pretty upset that you're actions are leading to the trafficking and suffering of others. Just because something isn't illegal yet doesn't mean that you're in the right to do it. Poor, uneducated, advanced people need to eat meat because they can't survive without it. However, people living in richer countries can quite easily make the right choice and top eating meat. You can get more information about why eating meat is wrong here: http://www.peta.org.uk/ Passing judgement on others is a fantastic way to make them think about and realise that what they've done is wrong which will hopefully lead to them not doing it again.

You make too many assumptions about everything in your posts. Not the least of which, you make a lot of assumptions about the character of another poster only because they disagree with you. I am not, have never been, nor ever will be a patron of a brothel. However, I recognize that most of them have nothing to do with human trafficking or desperation.

Street prostitution? Totally different -- it's often about desperation, drug money, etc. But brothels? These women have made a clear, reasoned choice to enter into this arrangement because of the frankly insane amount of money they can make, doing something they don't mind doing. They're making a living (by choice) off of their bodies in a way not unlike how a professional athlete chooses to do so.

Someone isn't "shitty" because they choose something that you wouldn't. Regardless of our opinions on brothels, we shouldn't be so quick to claim some imaginary Moral High Ground, from which we look down on all the "shitty" people and their "meat eating." You undermine your own point when you say things that are not true, or overstate a minimal amount of truth (and here's an "objective fact" -- exaggerating is the same as lying).

To my mind, the "shittier" person would be the one who believes his/her opinion is fact, and that everyone should subscribe to it or face summary judgment.

The people who decide to work there generally do it because they need the money to survive and can't get a job somewhere else. It isn't about my personal preferences it's about what is morally right. People are shitty because of their actions which hurt other living creatures. I claim the moral high ground because I don't do anything "bad". I don't drink alcohol, I don't smoke, I don't take drugs, I don't eat other animals, I don't swear, I don't start fights, I don't intentionally try to hurt other things I respect peoples' religious beliefs, I treat people equally regardless of where they came from. I could go on but I think you get the point.

 

[Dastardly]

...whereas in a brothel the women are forced to have sex with whoever walks through the door. Even if the person is incredibly overweight, ugly or disabled. If they don't have sex with the person the they'll be fired and or beaten by a pimp. Not everyone who works there will want to, some of them will have been trafficked there from other countries and forced to work. The film Taken (2008) shows what I'm talking about quite well.

You've apparently learned about 'brothels' from bad movies or something. "Pimps" handle street prostitutes. Brothels are regulated and have strict oversight. Women can choose their clients, and they usually say "Yes" because they'd like to have the hundreds of dollars for spending half an hour with the guy.

But the most telling thing in this quote: "Even if the person is incredibly overweight, ugly or disabled." Heaven forbid! Why would anyone want to have sex with "ugly" people? Or *ick* the disabled! (After all, it was a "wrong choice" for that guy to get hit by a drunk driver and lose the use of his left leg.)

The people who decide to work there generally do it because they need the money to survive and can't get a job somewhere else. It isn't about my personal preferences it's about what is morally right. People are shitty because of their actions which hurt other living creatures. I claim the moral high ground because I don't do anything "bad". I don't drink alcohol, I don't smoke, I don't take drugs, I don't eat other animals, I don't swear, I don't start fights, I don't intentionally try to hurt other things I respect peoples' religious beliefs, I treat people equally regardless of where they came from. I could go on but I think you get the point.

You have no data to back you up. The people who decide to work there often have degrees and other previous jobs, but they chose to work at the Bunny Ranch or wherever because they wanted to make tons of money.

But to insinuate you don't do anything "bad" is ridiculous. You've made a teeny-tiny list of things you consider "bad," and just said, "See? I don't do any of those." Those aren't the world's only "bad" things, mate. They're just the list of things you think make someone "less good" (aka worse) than yourself.

Newsflash -- your callous judgment of the "ugly" or overweight or handicapped as awful people? That's a "bad" thing. Your use of unsupported claims, or outright falsehoods, touted as facts? Yeah, that's lying -- pretty bad. Your forum health meter seems to suggest you have trouble playing well with others on a repeated basis -- surely that's not a trait for a "good" person to ahve. And swearing, well, that's another one, isn't it? Maybe not on your list, but on someone else's. Who's to say their not right, meaning you're "bad" like the rest of us?

Your claims of moral superiority are little more than building your own personal "hill" out of dirt and then declaring yourself King of it. Your royal edicts have no basis in reality, and they have no power in the real world.

 

[Robert Ewing]

You need to gird your loins my friend, having no self confidence and not speaking up to the girl you think you may have a chance with is a deal breaker. Even if it's just for a few minutes, you need to macho up and find a girl, and interact with her.