Yay! The more formats go BluRay exclusive the better! This counters the argument that after the first wave of early adopters who don't care about the price have finished buying, next comes the average consumer who would favour HDDVD because of the lowwer price of players, but who would buy a HDDVD player if nobody worthwhile releases films on it, and there are far more films on BluRay? You post has made me happy, thank you for that.KurtNiisan said:
So now that HD-DVD is dead
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- I'm glad you liked it. I've also found an article on the Interbutt about some webpages that are selling multi-region BluRay players (Samsung BD-P1400 and Sony BDP-S300/BDP-S500) by adding in a second on-board chip that holds the alternate Regioning information. They are, however, a bit on the *pricey* side but at least if they work then we know it's been done ^_^ShmenonPie said:
More news to come, as I see BluRay chip away at HD-DVD until there's nothing left but a bloody torso and some Microsoft fanboys screaming "zOMG, noooooooo~!" XD
Paramount has said that they will still support HD-DVD but that they do not have any announcements for new movies coming out in that format.
Hmmm, I thought Paramount and Universal had dropped Blu-Ray support in favor of HD-DVD. Also, Microsoft has picked the HD-DVD standard, which makes sense given that they wouldn't want to give in to Sony.
Personally, I'm going to wait until everybody can agree on a standard, which may not happen until the next format comes out and makes HD discs obsolete.
I don't think we'll see HD PC games for a while, seeing as DVDs have plenty of capacity for data.
- Alan
Personally, I'm going to wait until everybody can agree on a standard, which may not happen until the next format comes out and makes HD discs obsolete.
I don't think we'll see HD PC games for a while, seeing as DVDs have plenty of capacity for data.
- Alan
It's pretty unlikely for the switch to happen any time soon. PC games install to hard drives, so the only major benefit of switching to a higher-capacity disc is to make the installation more convenient. Until a significant number of games start getting released that require 5+ DVD's to install, there's no real incentive to move to a higher capacity media. That's not to mention the need for the majority of users to actually have these drives in their PCs, as well as for the price of the disc production to drop to the 'cents-per-disc' level.shadow skill said:
Consoles have more to gain from using larger media, since they actually play off the disc. But it was probably still too early for Blu-Ray in the PS3, since the capacity benefit (for gaming) is far outweighed by the terrible read performance that Blue-Ray brings. Most developers are using the capacity of the Blu-Ray disc to duplicate content to try to compensate for the slow load times (or falling back onto hard drive installs). Including Blu-Ray in as a strategic move to push the format for movies is another matter though, and likely the real reason it was included.
While HD-DVD is almost certainly on its way out, Blu-Ray isn't "far superior". As a format for commercial video, HD-DVD is (was) actually the better format for consumers. Here's why:ShmenonPie said:
Both formats provide equally good audio/visual quality (which is fantastic, I should add). This is because they both support the same codecs, and 25gb (HD-DVD limit) is still more than enough space for a high-quality 1080p film. You can point to certain cross-platform titles as 'proving' one format is better, but that's always the fault of the studio producing the disc, or the player, and not the encoded video.
HD-DVD is cheaper. The players are easier to produce, and have native backwards compatibility with DVD (Blu-Ray has to add in an 'extra' laser to read DVDs, making them more prone to problems). Disc production for HD-DVD is also far cheaper, and produces working discs much more reliably. All of this translates to lower costs for us, the people that buy these things.
HD-DVD is easier to program for, and has a more stable set of player features. For example, they're all required to have networking capabilities and built-in storage, so they can easily update themselves and can access downloadable content. Blu-Ray is much more difficult to build content for (which is why they haven't had any of the fancier extras yet, like the picture-in-picture video commentary on some HD-DVDs) and their standard is still somewhat unfinished (hence the different 'profiles', which can make some discs incompatible with some players). Using a PS3 will pretty much eliminate these things for "us", but not for regular people (mom).
HD-DVD also has less DRM placed on their discs, and the spec allows device makers to make 'managed copies' to allow movies to be copied onto PCs or portable devices. Blu-Ray doesn't have this in the spec, though they just announced that "some" movies will allow you to make a copy onto your PS3 (probably the ones from Sony Pictures). I think the mandatory managed copy permissions are one of the main reasons some studios wouldn't support HD-DVD - they don't like allowing us that much control.
For data storage purposes on a PC, where capacity is the most important thing, I'd definitely take Blu-Ray over HD-DVD. But for movies, through a player on my TV, HD-DVD is the better format.
This, of course, becomes irrelevant once you factor in the movie studios, and what they decided to support - that is the only reason one format wins over the other. In the end, they decide which format wins, not us. We just get to react to their decisions, which is likely to be Blu-Ray (unless someone pays off another studio to switch from Blu-Ray to HD-DVD).
Neither format winning matters to me though - I already have the HD-DVD drive for my Xbox 360 and plans to buy a PS3, so I'll be able to watch whichever format the movies are released in. And Blade Runner: Final Cut looks phenomenal - if you have an HDTV and a decent sound system, there is no going back to DVDs.
HDVD is not dead not with Uni and paramount still backing it exclusively, theres still a chance HDVD can maintain itself long enough to force BR to go joint with them, but frankly remove Uni or paramount from the HDVD camp and all HDVD will have is the 2ndry markets untill BR is as cheap as DVDs...and we all know nintendo with their pension for obscure and odd formats will just jump on it for tier next console LOL.
The format war is not over but this last battled ended with a huge victory for BR.
For me neither side is "better" HDVD has cheaper price but delayed region coding, size is no longer a issue and tis protection is merely upgraded from DVD.
Since sony sold off BD+ the live key system that tracks players and discs has been sold off its most likely no longer a threat to consumers it might have region coding and newer protection systems but its been hacked already so again its not a threat to consumers, if BR can price break and halve(30-50%) its player or disc price it would end te Hdef format war with just that.
PS:yes DVD is killing both formats since they are just 4% of the home disc market, and DVD will be around for 5-8 years easily and thats as the main disc format of choice for hollywod.
PSS:digi distro is not viable as a main form of distribution for the media industries of the world you are looking at 15+ years before any of the main media companies go solely digi distro.
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HDVD is better for the consuemrs int eh short run as well as better for fair use, BR might be better in the long run but is hampered by itself in some things but DVD was no diffrent it dose have coding issues at least BD+ was sold off to macro vision and they are not rootkit crazy like sony is all in all BR and HDVD only have minor difrances between each other now the main one being price of players and cost of production, it should be interesting to watch the prices fall on movies in the coming years and see if they bother to fully utlize the space offered by BR, I really do not see them offering more content for the same or lower price.
As for converting movies to play on other devices we have tools provided under fair use to do this..least until the media mafia takes over Washington and releases the black boot horde to stop free thinking.
The format war is not over but this last battled ended with a huge victory for BR.
For me neither side is "better" HDVD has cheaper price but delayed region coding, size is no longer a issue and tis protection is merely upgraded from DVD.
Since sony sold off BD+ the live key system that tracks players and discs has been sold off its most likely no longer a threat to consumers it might have region coding and newer protection systems but its been hacked already so again its not a threat to consumers, if BR can price break and halve(30-50%) its player or disc price it would end te Hdef format war with just that.
PS:yes DVD is killing both formats since they are just 4% of the home disc market, and DVD will be around for 5-8 years easily and thats as the main disc format of choice for hollywod.
PSS:digi distro is not viable as a main form of distribution for the media industries of the world you are looking at 15+ years before any of the main media companies go solely digi distro.
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True in the end the deals made with each other is what makes the format king, the reason beta failed was because sony was trying to monopolize and force heavy roiltes, while R production costs and rotiles are higher than HDVD theyare not enough to make them think twice.Virgil said:
HDVD is better for the consuemrs int eh short run as well as better for fair use, BR might be better in the long run but is hampered by itself in some things but DVD was no diffrent it dose have coding issues at least BD+ was sold off to macro vision and they are not rootkit crazy like sony is all in all BR and HDVD only have minor difrances between each other now the main one being price of players and cost of production, it should be interesting to watch the prices fall on movies in the coming years and see if they bother to fully utlize the space offered by BR, I really do not see them offering more content for the same or lower price.
As for converting movies to play on other devices we have tools provided under fair use to do this..least until the media mafia takes over Washington and releases the black boot horde to stop free thinking.
wow wow slow down there. HD-DVD is not dead. most big movies are made by compineys that will only put them on HD-DVD. and blue-ray as far as i can tell is only on the PS3 and those blue ray DVD players. HD-DVD is far from dead and anyone telling you diffrent is wrong. blue ray is too costly for total take over so soon. nether the HD-DVD nor the Blue-Ray is doing good or bad (as far as wtich is better anyway DVD is the standard at the moment) you cant say HD-DVD is dead anymore than you can say Blue-Ray bugged out. But as for the PC thing: theres not going to be any blue -ray disks untill PC's can play them. and PC's have no need to play them untill theres a disk in blue-ray. it will need sombody to go out on a limb and include ne hardwear or softwear or whatever. could be a long time, or it could be today. it just cant be said.
anybody who says, the PS3 has blue ray so that makes it the future. your a fanboy. anybody who says blue ray sucks because the ps3 isn't selling good. your a fanboy
anybody who says, the PS3 has blue ray so that makes it the future. your a fanboy. anybody who says blue ray sucks because the ps3 isn't selling good. your a fanboy
Blue-Ray will propaley take over when producting picks up and the price drops. but that could take a long time.
Knight Templar
HDVD still has paramount and universal but if they lose one of them the Hdef format war is over.
The 360 is already starting to show its age and the PS3 ii a double edged sword, games don't have the size issues but its been traded off for code optimization issues, still the PS3 will dominate in 2-3 years and the 360 will fall behind it.
The WII is in a odd position sure tis selling untis like mad but only doing so much for 3rd/2nd party sales, a lot of the supposed A titles will be built on graphics,ect I really do not see the titles coming out on the WII like it should and that will limit it some.
Allin all the 360 is aging fast but still has good software sells, in 2+ years thos sales will most likely move to the PS3 while the WI either falls into the pit or maintains its monmentom.
HDVD will stop being viable to the media conglomerates when they lose 1-2 big studio support I can see it doing well in 2ndry markets and I still see a 2-4 out of 10 chance of them joining forces.
All in all HDVD will lose the most in 08 unless all the minor studios join to back it the main trouble with BR is price in 4 years it could be at DVD price ranges (50-150$) but for now its costly for both the consumer and publisher.
HDVD still has paramount and universal but if they lose one of them the Hdef format war is over.
The 360 is already starting to show its age and the PS3 ii a double edged sword, games don't have the size issues but its been traded off for code optimization issues, still the PS3 will dominate in 2-3 years and the 360 will fall behind it.
The WII is in a odd position sure tis selling untis like mad but only doing so much for 3rd/2nd party sales, a lot of the supposed A titles will be built on graphics,ect I really do not see the titles coming out on the WII like it should and that will limit it some.
Allin all the 360 is aging fast but still has good software sells, in 2+ years thos sales will most likely move to the PS3 while the WI either falls into the pit or maintains its monmentom.
HDVD will stop being viable to the media conglomerates when they lose 1-2 big studio support I can see it doing well in 2ndry markets and I still see a 2-4 out of 10 chance of them joining forces.
All in all HDVD will lose the most in 08 unless all the minor studios join to back it the main trouble with BR is price in 4 years it could be at DVD price ranges (50-150$) but for now its costly for both the consumer and publisher.
Unfortunately, with Warner Brothers declaring themselves to be exclusively on Blu-Ray (and taking New Line with them), that puts about 70% of the market exclusively on Blu-Ray. At this point, unless something big happens studio-wise, HD-DVD is really running on borrowed time.Knight Templar said:
Lord of the Rings, from New Line, is going to be a big high-def mover given the general nerdery-level of the early tech adopters. Paramount has some great stuff that could 'counter' it (Godfather, Indiana Jones) but their release schedule makes it look like they're going to sit on their asses until their HD-DVD contract runs out and then make the switch.
ok its not over by a long shot. i did say that blue ray will win, but not for a very long time. and ZippyDSMlee your a fanboy shut up. the consoles have nothig to do with this. the real war is going to be movie producers. this is stupid. blue-ray is not the main format, so all arguments over it are stupid. its like this consloe war, you can only crown the winer AFTER the war, not during or before. so any and all "Blue-Ray is the best!" or "Blue-Ray is stupid" its pointless like this thread. just to stur up people and be anoying. guessing that the current movie co.'s are going to change to a coasly ans smaller market is stupid. it will propley happen, but not for a bit of time. but my words fall on deaf ears. ZippyDSMlee is a fanboy and i question the credablity of others arguments. this may well be a fanboy meting house and i am unbias. i think this is stupid. its not even like a debate, more a HD-DVD bash fest. dont crown blue ray king when i dont know any body in my countery who has even hear of blue ray.
You sure as hell sound like a fanboy, you don't even seem to take into account sheer volume of potential sales given how many companies support Blu-ray in the movie industry. Why not simply reply to my actual question in regards to when the first pc games will be released on Blu-ray if at all?Knight Templar said:
Knight Templar said:
But the consoles do play a role in this, the way stand alone player sales work only about half of the PS3 sales can count for full players this dose help selling films even if it gives BR a merger lead, hel film sales were 40/60 or barely 2 to 1 for the last few months of 08 pushing BR film sales to almost a 3 to 1 ratio, which is a shame BR is top heavy and media mafia sided, HDVD is a bit better for the consumer but when you get down to it they truly are the same where it matters.
Also if one dose not see the issues that the 360 as with hardware as well as the limits of the system itself and dose not see the issues the PS3 has with software and code optimization then they are a fool, the WI is a nice system but has limited it innovation to mainstream poo and since they have already made their profit off it they seem to be just riding the wave of fame.
Each system has their own nuance the WII has potential to give one full control over the control give and offer smoother control over older games with the Wiis own control system but they refuse to initialize button and movement customization so the consumer can play a game with input devices that nin wants to support, 2 things I hate in the world paying a premium for crappy games and paying a premium for crappy hardware/peripherals.
The 360 is starting downhill the hardware issues and HDD locks have slown its overall potential, brining HDVD to the line at minimum cost to the consumer would truly revamp the 360 and give it another 3-4 years of life outside of the 2-4 it as left, how many A and B class titles offering larger and "better" versions on the PS3 take before the industry shifts its focus to it, the 360 has had a easy time at getting devs because it was the only game in town now things are different but the same the WII lacks "pretty" and the game industry thrives on pretty since they do a half arse job on game play and content half the time, the PS3 is the industry dream but has major issues with price, saturation and power due to unoptimized code, but once they get the knack of programming for parallel computing the PS3 will be set to till 14-17 whenever they are ready to launch a new system.
I would rather have S go HDVD with the 360 and sell the add on for no more than the price of 2 new games and move the whole line to internal HDVD drives within 3 years from now it just makes better since then making a under deved console?the 360 was poorly made and designed and this has caused a lot of grief for gamers, I would rather them go with a stop gap measure than slop together another console to quickly, I would like them to take their time and build a great console, let consumers choose their storage and with what they interface with the console hell I?ll take a proprietary keyboard and mouse set that?s specially made for it if they would just make it, I would also like to see a focused plan on BWC I?d be happy to by a premium BWC service that?s 20-30 a year as long as the BWC is 70+ % complete, I do not care for crappy BWC that?s a minus 100$ loss on any console that has wonky BWC.
Hell if it were not for the price MS could go with BR but a 200$ add on will not help push new 360 Hdef disc games, between normal prices new units and the 120ish $ add on they would sell enough equipment to sell plenty of HDVD games.
Now as for being a fanboy, I am a game nazi I look with tired grimace at the game industry and watch as good games are raped and made into pabulum for the masses?.I do not care for shallow ?pwetty? games or film so I have a slightly different take on things, but even I follow the basic rules of things when I forum most of my opinions..oh and BTW when someone makes them poo maker opinions don?t fall in the fanboy trap and flame others by calling them a fan boy, I will admit my opinions are stinky but since I even ahndly rake all the consoles and formats across the fires hardly?.fanboyish.
PS: speaking of games it should be interesting to see how the market splits with the WII/360/PS3 being slightly mature in 08, the main reason to care about it is that?s were devs will take their games in 09 the WII has mass market appeal the 360 game sale appeal and the PS3 (well?it has pretty?and like I said the movie/game industry luffs its shallow pretty) LOL it has power/pretty and a nearly future proofed disc as far games go minor issues like BWC and the craptaclur 40GB unit aside it has steady console sales now witch will only climb in time that complied with better game optimization its looking to lead the market in 2-3 years.
While I am ranting I might discount MSs own optimization plans but if memory serves they made it so you can simply not do a lot with HD caching limiting space that could be compressed in games I have also not heard anything about MS/devs revamping the way 360 games work which leads me to assume that the 360 has little room to grow.
When it becomes more cost-effective for developers to make games in BluRay. If they stand to lose money on something, they'll never do it. That could take years, if at all. Almost all current games will fit on a single DVD. I just cant see games requiring the storage of multiple DVDs. The Dev Costs would be beyond astronomical; someone has to get paid for making all that data. It's already hard enough for developers to please their publishers. So, until DVDs are retired (IF they're retired, even today, CDs are popular), and it becomes cheaper to manufacture BRDs than DVDs, there wont be too many games available in BluRay.shadow skill said:
- LotR is a big series, and then there's also the Harry Potter films as well. I also loved the HD-DVD camps' response to Warner Bro's announcement by cancelling their Press Conference for CES '08.Virgil said:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/04/hd-dvd-group-cancels-ces-press-conference-in-wake-of-warner-anno/
HD-DVD has officially been kicked in the balls! XD
Games are already on multi DVDs look at most of the RPGs on the 360 and a few other newer games like UT3,PGR and other titles while not bad right now in the next 15-30 months it will only get worse, and by that time the PS3 should have enough market saturation and lowered production price to be a very viable choice.SilentHunter7 said:
As for PC games in specific I don't really see a issue in disc space, they can compress nearly twice as much data into a 8-9GB disc, 2 DVD9s will cover most single game packages for the next 3 to 5 years.
A pack of games like The orange box might require 2-4 discs but with compression a lot more can be done to save disc space, consoles are not so lucky, the 360 will have the hardest time in the coming years since its built on power and graphics to maintain that it will be a lot of work.
The WII can survive on DVD no problem its a diffrent market altogether.
Two pieces of info here:
1) Here's for everyone who actually wants a cheap PC BD drive: http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/06/finally-the-200-sony-blu-ray-drive-of-the-pc/
2) Microsoft caves, considers BluRay support for Xbox360: http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN0851332620080109
1) Here's for everyone who actually wants a cheap PC BD drive: http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/06/finally-the-200-sony-blu-ray-drive-of-the-pc/
2) Microsoft caves, considers BluRay support for Xbox360: http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN0851332620080109
