So, now that the honeymoon period is over... (Skyrim thread)
- Thread starter Jitters Caffeine
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I still disagree. Saying they are the most important non-combat skills isn't saying much. Most skills could be classified as combat skills. They might be obtrusive to level up, but you don't have to do it. That the point. If you really must, buy training. I think I've only enchanted one item in my entire Elder Scrolls history. They are in no way essential unless you want them to be. That is one of the strengths of Skyrim. Not interested, just ignore it.Jitters Caffeine said:
The world doesn't feel alive? Alright I'll grant you that TES games tend to be static, but you do sell it short. Haven't you ever been attacked by a Dark Brotherhood agent? Or run into a group of mercenaries and have them turn on you? Or found the companions battling a giant? Ever been blind sided by Thalmor agents? And lastly been attacked by a dragon, which happens a lot.
If i had ignored Smithing and Enchanting, I would have been SEVERELY handicapped. Being self-sufficient is a big part of playing the game. Otherwise you have to grab every least cup and bowl to buy equipment when yours isn't cutting it anymore. And buying training stops being an optionwhen they stop offering it to you.R Man said:
And yes, I have been attacked by the Thalmor, and Bandits, and Dark Brotherhood. And what happened? It was no more than 3 or 4 buy attacking with melee and backed up with bows and MAYBE magic if the game was feeling frisky. And dragons are a strike against you. It got to where I was fighting 3 dragons just walking from city to city. They went from what COULD have been a very engaging part of the game and trivialized it to a point of painful tedium. I would literally curse the game every time one showed up because I knew it was going to be another 5 to 7 minutes of it flying above me screeching because I had the AUDACITY to play a melee character. And seeing a scripted event between Companions and a Giant doesn't count.
To me, Skyrim was hilarious from the get go. Not intentionally mind, but the fact that it took itself so seriously while at the same time having such goofy shit happen. The villagers spouting their life story to you in two or less sentences every single time you walk by, the completely and totally inept city guards, the guilds who desperately wanted to accomplish something and still managed to have absolutely no effect on their surroundings all spring readily to mind.
I mean, the dragons were getting pimp-slapped into the dirt by fucking BEARS. Giants just chill out and mind their own business, eating mammoth cheese and casually playing "adventurer golf" when they get the chance. The downright retarded buddies you get lumped with whenever you're forced to go through a Draugr tomb with someone and they can't figure out the claw-door. I mean really? The people in Skyrim are too stupid to figure out "match shapes on key, push button, profit"? This isn't immersive, it's just funny.
I think a lot of people went into Skyrim expecting a deep and open world RPG experience. I went into Skyrim expecting a game of "how fast can I break the system?" Turns out that a combination of Illusion and Conjuration magic with Heavy Armour, Smithing, and Enchanting is just about all you need to essentially have the game play itself.
I mean, the dragons were getting pimp-slapped into the dirt by fucking BEARS. Giants just chill out and mind their own business, eating mammoth cheese and casually playing "adventurer golf" when they get the chance. The downright retarded buddies you get lumped with whenever you're forced to go through a Draugr tomb with someone and they can't figure out the claw-door. I mean really? The people in Skyrim are too stupid to figure out "match shapes on key, push button, profit"? This isn't immersive, it's just funny.
I think a lot of people went into Skyrim expecting a deep and open world RPG experience. I went into Skyrim expecting a game of "how fast can I break the system?" Turns out that a combination of Illusion and Conjuration magic with Heavy Armour, Smithing, and Enchanting is just about all you need to essentially have the game play itself.
In short, I love skyrim because of mods and modding community. That is the game's strongest suit. Judging it by anything else and expecting anything else is just delusion.
Currently looking for mods that allow you to take more "archetype classes" paths, like Mastery of Magic that adds a perk that makes regular heal spells hurt undead, opening more choices for a cleric style character. Also loving other mods like Skyrim Improved magic system, where you decide your starting spells, such that your barbarian that knows no spells doesnt accidentally know fire spray.
Sneak system is broken IMO in vanilla. Using path of shadows which is quite nice.
And Deadly dragons is a must have.
Currently looking for mods that allow you to take more "archetype classes" paths, like Mastery of Magic that adds a perk that makes regular heal spells hurt undead, opening more choices for a cleric style character. Also loving other mods like Skyrim Improved magic system, where you decide your starting spells, such that your barbarian that knows no spells doesnt accidentally know fire spray.
Sneak system is broken IMO in vanilla. Using path of shadows which is quite nice.
And Deadly dragons is a must have.
I find Skyrim to be fun when I want to roleplay. By having a non-detailed story, I was able to create my own story and immerse myself fully in the game. In Fallout, I find that because I am given a backstory, I find it difficult to make the character my own. Yeah, I don't know the courier's past, but he clearly had one, the game tells you about it all the time what with Ulysses. That's an entire chapter of the character that I'm missing. Skyrim (and all Elder Scrolls games, for that matter) just require that my character was at some point arrested to work. I'm free to invent my character as I play.
In regards to your complaint about leveling, I understand that you might want to level in the Fallout manner, but again, I find that Skyrim's system is superior for roleplaying. Yeah, if I've used a bow for 3/4 of the game, and I decide I want to use a sword suddenly, I'm up a creek. That's because my character has no idea how to use a sword, swords are functionally different from bows. Fallout allows you to magically become better at punching things and cooking things because you're good at shooting things and talking to people. From a roleplay perspective, that makes 0 sense. If you want to play a swordsman-archer, you need to play as a swordsman-archer throughout, or else accept that for a while your swords are going to be kind of lame until they are up to speed. In Fallout once you max out your main skills, your forced to spend skillpoints, so you can't even handicap yourself (without mods), you are forced to become a god-character.
You mentioned grinding as well; you're not really supposed to grind in this game, to be honest. Yeah, you CAN, but it'll be really freaking boring. Spamming enchantments and iron daggers(smithing is supposed to be "fixed" in 1.5 as well) aren't the only way to level. instead, try bringing a picaxe with you while adventuring, and unfilled soul gems from shops or loot. Then, capture some souls, mine the ore you come across, take any pelts from the never-ending stream of wolves that attack. Then, when you finish your quest, head back to town, use the resources you've gathered and improve your character bit by bit. Use herbs you found to make poisons and what not.
I'm also always surprised that people don't like the combat, I really liked it in Oblivion and Skyrim (it almost prevents me from playing Morrowind. Almost.). I'm playing with mouse and keyboard, and it seems fairly responsive and it's always satisfying to land an arrow in someone/thing's back, or to bash its head in with my axe. Maybe I'm just wierd and like bad combat or something. idk.
Anyhow, that's how I play Skyrim, and what I find to be the most fun way to play it.
Holy crap that was a really long post lol.
In regards to your complaint about leveling, I understand that you might want to level in the Fallout manner, but again, I find that Skyrim's system is superior for roleplaying. Yeah, if I've used a bow for 3/4 of the game, and I decide I want to use a sword suddenly, I'm up a creek. That's because my character has no idea how to use a sword, swords are functionally different from bows. Fallout allows you to magically become better at punching things and cooking things because you're good at shooting things and talking to people. From a roleplay perspective, that makes 0 sense. If you want to play a swordsman-archer, you need to play as a swordsman-archer throughout, or else accept that for a while your swords are going to be kind of lame until they are up to speed. In Fallout once you max out your main skills, your forced to spend skillpoints, so you can't even handicap yourself (without mods), you are forced to become a god-character.
You mentioned grinding as well; you're not really supposed to grind in this game, to be honest. Yeah, you CAN, but it'll be really freaking boring. Spamming enchantments and iron daggers(smithing is supposed to be "fixed" in 1.5 as well) aren't the only way to level. instead, try bringing a picaxe with you while adventuring, and unfilled soul gems from shops or loot. Then, capture some souls, mine the ore you come across, take any pelts from the never-ending stream of wolves that attack. Then, when you finish your quest, head back to town, use the resources you've gathered and improve your character bit by bit. Use herbs you found to make poisons and what not.
I'm also always surprised that people don't like the combat, I really liked it in Oblivion and Skyrim (it almost prevents me from playing Morrowind. Almost.). I'm playing with mouse and keyboard, and it seems fairly responsive and it's always satisfying to land an arrow in someone/thing's back, or to bash its head in with my axe. Maybe I'm just wierd and like bad combat or something. idk.
Anyhow, that's how I play Skyrim, and what I find to be the most fun way to play it.
Holy crap that was a really long post lol.
Pretty good game. Lots of problems like any Bethsoft title though.
Factions are boring. Characters are flat. Story is better than most they have come up with but they seem intent on killing their own setting by trying to add this new Thalmor faction. These open sandbox games just don't have the narrative punch that I need to keep me interested in the long term.
Fallout NV was really good. But Obsidian has kick ass writers. Bethsoft is better at world building, not so much at coming out with a solid narrative.
Factions are boring. Characters are flat. Story is better than most they have come up with but they seem intent on killing their own setting by trying to add this new Thalmor faction. These open sandbox games just don't have the narrative punch that I need to keep me interested in the long term.
Fallout NV was really good. But Obsidian has kick ass writers. Bethsoft is better at world building, not so much at coming out with a solid narrative.
Now just imagine if Bethesda could actually work well with others instead of being a sack of dicks. Oh, the amazingness that could be born in a joint Bethesda/Obsidian game.jklinders said:
It would be good. It would also be a match made in hell from a Quality Assurance standpoint. Both developers have a history of releasing barely functioning bug ridden messes as games. Putting them together would make an amazing game that would never run the same on any machine due to really slipshod QA work.wintercoat said:
It's fascinating reading this thread, people keep complainign about it being dull but compared to Oblivion it's fantastic.
Personally, I'm givgin it a few months for the right combination of mods, the game is too forgiving for my liking.
Personally, I'm givgin it a few months for the right combination of mods, the game is too forgiving for my liking.
I understand having a complete blank slate as the "player character' to be appealing when you're trying to roleplay. But creating a detailed character for yourself just seems like a fallacy when the rest of the world is so flat, sterile, and lifeless. You never FEEL like what you're doing has any impact or lasting effect. You can be the leader of the Companions, but all the soldiers will talk down to you like you've never seen a day of combat. The game seems like it doesn't care WHAT you do.Hattingston said:
The game put me into a situation where I felt grinding was necessary. If I didn't have the best equipment I could get, I was going to be handicapped. So how do I get the best equipment? I have to make it. Okay, I can't make it without a special perk. So that means I have to level up my Smithing so I can make the best armor and weapons and then upgrade them. How do I do that? By buying up every Iron Ingot I can find and turning them into Iron Dagger so I can EVENTUALLY make Ebony armor. That's the impact the world had on me. "Better get the best I can so I wont get destroyed by dragons." That's why the leveling system is so obtrusive and completely stonewalls me from being immersed in the game. That thought the game gave me was always in the back of my mind, so I ALWAYS felt like I was playing a game. It felt like I was playing Runescape again. But instead of fighting Cows, I'm making Daggers. The Fallout system had ZERO grinding. You just have to think of the points you're allocating as the culmination of your experiences in the Wasteland. Sure I may have gotten a level up from a successful Speech check, but it's not like that was all I was doing.
The combat is INCREDIBLY boring because no matter who you're fighting, you're always fighting the same thing. Weak melee backed up by moderate ranged with bows then a big bad guy with magic or a two handed weapon. That's EVERY stronghold. No matter if it's Bandits, Vampires, or the Thalmor. It's just so cookie cutter. In Fallout, every faction has preferred tactics in combat. If I'm fighting Powder Gangers, I know I'll be dealing with smaller caliber guns (maybe plasma weapons at the highest levels) and explosives. If I'm in one of their bases, I had better watch my step or I'm going to get my legs blown off. If I'm fighting a Legion Death Squad, I know it'll be between 4 to 6 guys. One will have a Super Sledge, a majority will have automatic weapons, and there will be at least one will have some kind of explosive. In Skyrim, it's always first wave melee leading into a group of backpeddling archers/weaker mages ending in a big bad guy with better armor and a two handed weapon or a particularly powerful mage.
What's the difference? Fighting hordes of enemies to directly level your combat skills or fighting hordes of enemies so you can level and then put points into your skills. You do have to put yourself into situations to level your skills. You have to constantly be wandering aimlessly hoping to find another shitty cave or completing every quest you come across or going to deathclaw spawn points for the kills. There is grinding in both games. In Tes its based of your skills, in Fallout its just general xp.Jitters Caffeine said:
Theres plenty of clothing options to fit the style you want in Skyrim. Say in Fallout you have a good looking clothing set somewhat like the cowboy outfit. It gives boosts to lock you into a playstyle. Now say you find a really cool energy weapon. You want to keep the cool looking clothes and you the weapon so the bonuses basically might as well be non-existent. Lets say this kind of thing happens in Skyrim. You like the look of the Alik'r Warrior's Robes but you find a daedric warhammer and want to start using it. You also wants some bonuses to suit your playstyle. It's an easy fix, just learn the enchantment you want, which to be honest is damn quick and easy, then just apply it to the clothing. This way you have your clothes and weapon of choice AND you get a nice bonus to go with it. In Fallout you don't have this freedom. Yes I agree that the clothing options are tailored for the majority of players playstyles, however they are also restricting the player by doing so. Part of the great thing about these kind of games is the freedom you have. Although I do prefer Morrowind in this regard.
The hordes behave differently though. In Skyrim, the fights are always the same. A first wave of weak melee followed by ranged enemies that are usually archers, sometimes weaker mages, and ended with one super strong melee with tougher armor and a two handed weapon or a particularly powerful mage. The combat becomes tedious when every enemy stronghold is exactly the same no matter which faction you're fighting. In Fallout, all the factions behave differently in combat, Powder Gangers will use smaller caliber guns and plasma weapons at higher levels with explosives as backup. If I'm in one of their bases, there will be mines. If I'm fighting Fiends, I'll be going against an initial wave of chem boosted Melee enemies backed up with mid level rifles and usually at least one heavy Energy Weapon if I'm in one of their bases. If I'm fighting Thalmor, it's going to be the EXACT same fight as he Bandit stronghold I cleared out just before. That's the difference between when I need experience in Fallout. I can clear out an enemy base that will behave differently depending on who is occupying it. In Skyrim, if I need higher Smithing, I'll be making Iron Daggers.black_knight1337 said:
Sure the clothes and Armor in Fallout may have predetermined stat and skill boosts, but they're though out enough to benefit a character that would WANT to wear it. I never once held onto a piece of equipment in Skyrim if I found something better. It was just a placeholder til I found the next best thing. Another aspect of the equipment system in Fallout is durability. Armor and Weapons break down. Sure, this armor has incredibly high Damage Reduction, but it's fairly hard to find. That means it'll be harder to maintain. This adds a deeper level of character management. I can't be a jack of all trades because carrying armor and weapons I'm not good with is pointless, so using clothing that boosts your strengths is a good idea, but having something that makes up for your weaknesses is also a good choice. Skyrim is just an easter egg hunt for the next best armor.
New Vegas was excellent in that the characters you took with you developed as the game went on with their personality being fleshed out in personal side quests. Elder Scrolls games have NEVER felt like that.
That being said, I've just gone back to it after the abomination that was Mass Effect 3 and I've got to say it's comforting and set in it's ways of old school RPG gaming. Like an eccentric uncle whom you go to the pub with.
That being said, I've just gone back to it after the abomination that was Mass Effect 3 and I've got to say it's comforting and set in it's ways of old school RPG gaming. Like an eccentric uncle whom you go to the pub with.
I actually went back to Fallout 3 after how underwhelmed I was with Skyrim. Never looked back.goose4291 said:
I actually went back to Fallout 3 after how underwhelmed I was with Skyrim. Never looked back.[/quote]Jitters Caffeine said:
You've convinced me, I'm back off to the capital wasteland once I've dealt with that bloody dragon thing.
I'll be staying clear of Mothership Zeta though
