So, on a scale of 1-10, how bad is this?

[Wickatricka]

You are overacting I mean seriously stop being a pussy. If she woke up I doubt she scream rape and never want to see him again. Believe or not but girls like sketchy douche bags even if they won't admit it, they don't like nice guys, you obviously like this girl and are going to tell her what he did because you think she'll hate him but thats not gonna happen because thats not how life works shes not going to care and probably will like him even more then now. Nice guys finish last.

 

[justnotcricket]

Urrgh =S That is creepy. Just the thought of a guy friend of mine groping me while I was unconscious... *shudder*

He was definitely in the wrong - don't care about the drinking part; if you've hit the point where you're (however peripherally) sexually assaulting your friends while drunk, then it might be time to reassess both your drinking habits and your attitudes toward sex.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Well he did say "groping" and I don't think that could really mean anything other than touching her breast.

And no, being remorseful doesn't mean that you need to tell the other person about it. The two aren't mutually exclusive. In this particular situation it may even be best not to tell her about it. If he was more adult about it, than that should be the action he should take but it is of no business to the OP, and it is not the OP's decision to make.

Plus, getting drunk to the point of where you don't remember something is called being black out drunk. Some people don't Black Out (me included), so they can be completely wasted and still remember what they did. This is a stretch, but I really doubt his intention that night was to get her unconscious to the point of where he could take advantage of her. If that was the case, than yes, it would be necessary to tell her.

Groping can mean quite a lot of things, and isn't necessarily limited to the breasts. Not that "groping a woman's breasts" when that woman is A) helpless and B) has not given you consent is like, totally cool, and things only go south once you're up in the vagina. Groping carries a fairly negative connotation. Would you like to be known as a groper? Probably not.

Best for whom? Best for the groper, certainly, as telling her could potentially result in any number of unpleasant scenarios. Best for the victim? Is that really his call to make? Would you like to know if someone you trusted was fondling you in your sleep? More importantly, wouldn't you like *whether or not you knew* to be a decision left up to you? It just seems like fairly half-assed "remorse", to me. It sounds more like someone who wants absolution from his friend so he can stop feeling bad about it. However, that is speculation on my part.

I think it's unlikely he set out with a goal of incapacitating her so the hi-jinx could begin as well. I think he saw an opportunity, and he took it. A 2nd degree fondling, if you will.

I just think it's important, while we're keeping it in perspective that he didn't RAPE her, that we keep it in perspective that he DID grope and fondle her sexually while she was helpless and unconcious. His friend. Who trusted him. And who had not given her consent. She has the right to know, not only that she was groped and fondled, but that a friend she trusted was willing to take advantage of her. She has the right to decide for herself whether or not that's something she cares to forgive and/or potentially expose herself to again in the future.

 

[Fishbulb07]

He shouldn't do that.

 

[6_Qubed]

The feeling her up part? No, not that bad.

Telling other people you felt up a unconscious girl? Tacky like a ************.

 

[thevillageidiot13]

Dude, I don't think you've ever been legitimate friend if you think it's okay to let something like this slide. Friendship isn't about going out for beers together or going to parties together or checking out chicks and being like "Yo, I'd totally bone her."

I never said it was.

It's about backing each other up when a fight breaks out, letting somebody stay overnight on 5 minutes' notice because of an emergency, calling in a few favors to get your friend out of a tight spot. You know. That sort of shit.

Frankly, if a guy molests his own friend in her sleep, I'm not sure how dependable the man is. And I certainly wouldn't want him as my friend, backing me up in fights and whatnot.

Would you not consider that a tight spot? I think it's been determined that this person was talking about this in confidence and was sorry for this particular situation.

He was shit faced drunk and he had a moment of weakness. He didn't rape here when he could have. If that's really all it would take for you to say "Back off freak", then I still stand by what I said. This is the moment where a true friend shines through and the ones who never cared rat you out to the girl.

There is so much worse shit that he could have done to where I'd still have his back.

Okay. I'm not sure what the OP said, but he didn't seem clear on whether or not the friend expressed remorse for his actions. I think that our disagreement stems from our natural tendency to "fill in the blanks." You assume that the friend was remorseful, and told the OP all of this in confidence and with a general attitude of regret. I assume that the friend was doing the "douchebag frat bro" act, and said something along the lines of, "Dude, I totally groped that ***** the other night."

Let us agree, if your assumption is correct, that a good friend would be supportive and non-hostile, and point out that it may be in his friend's interests to tell the girl the truth and come clean. After all, it's reasonable to expect a friend to be an honest, stand-up guy (aside from a few moments of weakness, of course).

Let us also agree, if my assumption is correct, that the guy's a bit of a douchebag, should feel more remorse than what he's expressed, and probably deserves (at the very least) a very, very, very strong talking-to.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Groping can mean quite a lot of things, and isn't necessarily limited to the breasts. Not that "groping a woman's breasts" when that woman is A) helpless and B) has not given you consent is like, totally cool, and things only go south once you're up in the vagina. Groping carries a fairly negative connotation. Would you like to be known as a groper? Probably not.

I've never really heard it used in reference to the vagina, but I guess I'll take your word for it. And no, I'm by no means saying it's not a bad thing. I think it's disgusting, yet I don't think it's as big a deal as people are making it out to be.

Best for whom? Best for the groper, certainly, as telling her could potentially result in any number of unpleasant scenarios. Best for the victim? Is that really his call to make? Would you like to know if someone you trusted was fondling you in your sleep? More importantly, wouldn't you like *whether or not you knew* to be a decision left up to you? It just seems like fairly half-assed "remorse", to me. It sounds more like someone who wants absolution from his friend so he can stop feeling bad about it. However, that is speculation on my part.

I was gonna go with best for everyone, because this is potentially as good of a situation as you can get out of something like this.

1) the "victim" was asleep, so she knows nothing about it.
2) the friend was drunk and managed to have a little bit of control of himself
3) She sustained no physical or mental damage

Yes, I'm sure I would want to know if someone I trusted was fondling me in my sleep, but that was never the point.

It was told in confidence by a friend and it's not my choice to make, it's the friend who committed the action. And it's certainly shouldn't lead to me filing for legal action (provided that it was as innocent as the OP is leading us to believe)

I think it's unlikely he set out with a goal of incapacitating her so the hi-jinx could begin as well. I think he saw an opportunity, and he took it. A 2nd degree fondling, if you will.

I just think it's important, while we're keeping it in perspective that he didn't RAPE her, that we keep it in perspective that he DID grope and fondle her sexually while she was helpless and unconcious. His friend. Who trusted him. And who had not given her consent. She has the right to know, not only that she was groped and fondled, but that a friend she trusted was willing to take advantage of her. She has the right to decide for herself whether or not that's something she cares to forgive and/or potentially expose herself to again in the future.

I guess I have more of a psychologist mentality in that if someone tells me something in confidence, I have no right to give that information out to anyone.

If he had caused harm to her, I would let her know. But the way I see it, he let a swift impulse control him and he did a childish thing. It's really not that big a deal to me. It's definitely weird, but I could see anyone doing that provided they were intoxicated. I've heard of people doing extremely stupid shit while they were drunk.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Okay. I'm not sure what the OP said, but he didn't seem clear on whether or not the friend expressed remorse for his actions. I think that our disagreement stems from our natural tendency to "fill in the blanks." You assume that the friend was remorseful, and told the OP all of this in confidence and with a general attitude of regret. I assume that the friend was doing the "douchebag frat bro" act, and said something along the lines of, "Dude, I totally groped that ***** the other night."

Let us agree, if your assumption is correct, that a good friend would be supportive and non-hostile, and point out that it may be in his friend's interests to tell the girl the truth and come clean. After all, it's reasonable to expect a friend to be an honest, stand-up guy (aside from a few moments of weakness, of course).

Let us also agree, if my assumption is correct, that the guy's a bit of a douchebag, should feel more remorse than what he's expressed, and probably deserves (at the very least) a very, very, very strong talking-to.

That I can 100% agree on.

 

[agrajagthetesty]

That analogy really doesn't work, and to be 100% honest with you, if the guy was honest to goodness feeling guilty and remorseful (like in this case), than yes, I don't think I'd mind not being told. I'm know that my friends aren't perfect, and I don't mind that. Hell, I've had friends who have done far worse than what you mentioned.

I've had friends with serious problems. But guess what?

They are my friends. Something that people here don't seem to understand.

He was drunk. She was unconscious. He touched her breast.

That was all. You people are acting like he raped her. I refer you to post 248. That accurately sums up what people are doing right about now.

Care to explain the problems with the analogy, rather than just telling me it doesn't work? If I see the flaws, I'll try to come up with a better one.

I don't understand why you keep asserting that the guy feels guilty. Let's look at the OP's post again:

The other day we were hanging out and he tells me that that night they both got drunk and went back to her place, and while she was passed out drunk he "felt her up". I asked him what he meant. He said he just kind of groped her or whatever but not actual sex. [...] Again, according to him, he didn't actually do the deed and he said he only did it for a few minutes before crashing on the couch

Nowhere in this description of his confession do I see a reference to guilt or remorse. Quite the opposite, in fact: the repeated use of qualifying phrases like "just kind of groped her", "didn't actually do the deed" and "only did it for a few minutes" says to me that the guy was defensive of his actions, attempting to minimise their severity through his language. To me, that doesn't seem like someone who has accepted that he has fucked up and is remorseful. It sounds like, while he realises that there's a problem with what he did, he's trying to rationalise it with himself and tell himself it wasn't as bad as all that.

Okay, well, if you don't mind having friends that will invade your privacy and betray your trust, that's your choice. But most people are not like that, and prefer to feel that they can be safe around those they choose to spend time with. And the girl, the victim, deserves to have all the facts so that she can decide for herself whether or not this guy is a threat, whether or not it is a big deal, and whether or not she'll forgive him.

For myself, I don't care how close the relationship was, if someone groped me while I was unconscious, that friendship would be over.

I have never been raped, but I have been sexually touched without my consent. And believe me, in that situation, the victim does not think "oh, that's fine, it's not like I was raped! He just groped me, that's all!" I just don't think you seem to grasp the extent of the violation involved when someone fondles you non-consensually.

 

[GenericAmerican]

My first reaction is he is a fucking pervert and should go hang.

But really I think the reactions need to be based on how deep their relationship is. If they had/are having sex, and they were both drunk; I would say it was creepy and he shouldn't do that, but it was probably because he was drunk and it was a stupid idea.

If they are just close friends, and he was taking advantage of the situation; then I say burn the bastard at the stake. Because we know what he wants but she isn't giving him; and this could eventually get much worse.

 

[Vivi22]

I feel now is more a time then ever to remind you that just because they are laws doesn't mean they are right.

These are the same sexual assault laws that get's pinned to an 18 year old forever because ha had sex with his 16 year old girlfriend.

Am I saying this wasn't wrong? No, not at all. I think it's actually pretty sick. But are you going to tell me that this was worth getting your friend arrested and thrown in jail? That's what we call an over-reaction.

Seriously, you're acting like he's a serial rapist.

No, laws aren't always right. But in the case of violating someone's body without their permission, even if it was without their knowledge, the law is pretty much in agreement with the morality of any rational human being. And I'm not saying tell the cops, I'm saying tell the woman. Like I said, if it happened once, it could happen again. And she won't even know that she may have to protect herself from being in that situation again. If she presses charges, well guess what, that's her right. She was a victim of a highly immoral act which happens to be a crime. If she considered what happened and decided pressing charges was the appropriate next step then that's her right. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else has the right to make that decision for her as she is the victim. Not us.

And no I am not trying to make it sound like he's a serial rapist. But he had one severe lapse in judgement while drunk, and there's no reason to believe that if it happened once it couldn't happen again. Again, the woman needs to know so she can assess the situation and decide how she feels the most comfortable and safe dealing with it.

I think the fact that she didn't know what happened to her was the safest part. If he's someone who has a serious physiological problem, then yes, maybe making efforts to keep him away from her would be a good idea. Assuming that he's some sexual deviant intent on doing it to her again is an overreaction.

Again, I'm not assuming he's a sexual deviant intent on doing it to her again. I am saying he is a person who had a severe lapse in judgement while drunk. I've been very drunk plenty of times in my life and even then it never would have crossed my mind to do what he did if I were in the same situation. Not telling this girl what happened is not the safest option for her because she will still trust him and feel safe enough with him to get drunk and potentially pass out with him around. Now I am not saying that he will sexually assault her again, but that if he had such a terrible lapse in judgement once, it could potentially happen again under similar circumstances. And that's not even taking into consideration that he may decide there's no risk to it next time if he gets away with it this time.

The point is there is the possibility, however remote it may or may not be, that he may do it again if the opportunity presents itself. It is not an overreaction to say that she needs to know so that at the very least she doesn't put herself in that situation.

I can understand having the desire to protect and defend a friend, but frankly, my own sense of morality would not let me hide what they did from the victim when they have committed such an utterly immoral crime against them. Sorry, I like my friends, but I refuse to stay quiet when someone violates another human being like that and may be in a position to do it again (and again, you can never know that they won't do it when they already did something so utterly immoral to begin with).

Well guess what? It wouldn't be your place to tell her.

If the guy feels that he fucked up enough to where he needs to let her know, than that should be encouraged. But if he doesn't want to tell her that he did it, then that is also his business.

Sorry, but if the guy isn't willing to tell her then it definitely is my place to tell her. He violated her body without her consent. He doesn't have the right to keep that from her, particularly after admitting it to someone.

 

[flamingjimmy]

Imo 'bros before hoes' does not apply in this situation.

You are teetering dangerously close to putting words in my mouth.

You did indeed strongly imply that my loyalty to my friend should be a deciding factor in my decision what to do. I don't care that it's illegal, I care that it is morally wrong.

If you really think that touching a girls breast warrants a legal disciplinary action like this, than you really have to get your priorities in check. Right now you are treating this as if she was raped while she was unconscious.

No I'm not, if that were the case, I would respond completely differently. I would immediately phone the police and my past friendship would be completely damned.

In the case as it is all I would do is make sure that the girl found out, if she wants to get the police involved that is up to her.

Well guess what? It wouldn't be your place to tell her.

Yes it would, it would absolutely be my place. Obviously it would be better if he confessed himself and like I said from the start I'd try to make him do that first. Failing that, I would have to tell her because I'd be the only person who could, there is no alternative, she has to know. And if the molester isn't going to confess himself then I'd have to tell her.

If the guy feels that he fucked up enough to where he needs to let her know, than that should be encouraged. But if he doesn't want to tell her that he did it, then that is also his business.

No, it's her business, she has a right to know.

It was touching a girls boob while she was asleep, don't try to make it seem more detrimental than it is.

I'm not, it was sexual contact without consent, my description was 100% accurate.

If the roles were reversed, no one would care.

Not as much, no, because men and women are very different.[/quote]

Well there is some good bias for ya. If you wouldn't let a guy know that some chick felt up his junk while he was out cold, then why do you need to let this girl know?

I would absolutely let a guy know about that if I knew about it, I just wouldn't be quite as scared for the guy's safety because of the vast differences in muscle mass between men and women. Also, from personal experience, I know that that is not likely to freak out a guy in the same way as it would a girl.

If you legitimately think that this person who is a friend did something so vile and repulsive that you need to tell on him, than I really have nothing further to say to you. It's time you stop being so sensitive to things like this.

Once again: bollocks. The girl has to know, she has a right to know, and she needs to know, if for naught else then for her own safety. If the guy in question isn't going to tell her, then I would have to, as there would be no alternative.

 

[SextusMaximus]

Get that guy out of your life.. And tell the girl, she has to know..

couldn't agree more!

The girl shouldn't have to know, it's unfair on her.

How is it unfair? If a friend of mine got me drunk and then groped me in my sleep, I'd want to know so I could kick his ass.

If the girl's not going to find out at all, it's best not to tell her, so she doesn't have to no. It's the kind thing to do.

 

[thevillageidiot13]

Get that guy out of your life.. And tell the girl, she has to know..

couldn't agree more!

The girl shouldn't have to know, it's unfair on her.

How is it unfair? If a friend of mine got me drunk and then groped me in my sleep, I'd want to know so I could kick his ass.

If the girl's not going to find out at all, it's best not to tell her, so she doesn't have to no. It's the kind thing to do.

That doesn't make any sense. If it's unclear whether or not the guy's going to do more molesting, it would be prudent to tell the girl for her own safety.

Seriously, if I were the girl, I'd want to know. Wouldn't you?

 

[Dan Steele]

You have every single right to be disgusted by him

 

[SextusMaximus]

Get that guy out of your life.. And tell the girl, she has to know..

couldn't agree more!

The girl shouldn't have to know, it's unfair on her.

How is it unfair? If a friend of mine got me drunk and then groped me in my sleep, I'd want to know so I could kick his ass.

If the girl's not going to find out at all, it's best not to tell her, so she doesn't have to know. It's the kind thing to do.

That doesn't make any sense. If it's unclear whether or not the guy's going to do more molesting, it would be prudent to tell the girl for her own safety.

Seriously, if I were the girl, I'd want to know. Wouldn't you?

Out of curiosity, yes - it wouldn't do me any good though, it'd just fill me with misery.

I agree that the guy should make sure she doesn't get molested again, though.

 

[Dastardly]

There are varying degrees of "sexual assault" (its technically rape for an 18-year-old to sleep with a 15-year-old but you wouldn't call him a rapist, would you?). You can't even tell what the guy actually did from the OP's description.

We can tell enough to know that it's not something harmless. You'll kindly notice I'm not saying the guy should be in handcuffs, or strung up in the streets and lit on fire. I'm not saying this is a capital crime.

I'm just saying that it's far from some throw-away, harmless thing. It displays a willingness to violate someone else's body. Shoplifting a candy bar isn't a humongous theft, but it displays a willingness to take someone else's stuff -- it probably shouldn't land you in jail, but you probably shouldn't ignore it, either. It's a symptom of something potentially bigger.

 

[Woodsey]

There are varying degrees of "sexual assault" (its technically rape for an 18-year-old to sleep with a 15-year-old but you wouldn't call him a rapist, would you?). You can't even tell what the guy actually did from the OP's description.

We can tell enough to know that it's not something harmless. You'll kindly notice I'm not saying the guy should be in handcuffs, or strung up in the streets and lit on fire. I'm not saying this is a capital crime.

I'm just saying that it's far from some throw-away, harmless thing. It displays a willingness to violate someone else's body. Shoplifting a candy bar isn't a humongous theft, but it displays a willingness to take someone else's stuff -- it probably shouldn't land you in jail, but you probably shouldn't ignore it, either. It's a symptom of something potentially bigger.

Its a symptom of being very pissed.