So sick of the "friend zone".

[Yopaz]

OK, let me tell you this. You are not her friend. You are a doormat. You let her do these things to you because you have ambitions of being more than her friend. You believe you can manipulate her into liking you even though you don't admit it. When you let her vent your problems you put yourself in a position that will make her think of you as a great friend. However when she breaks up with her boyfriend you expect her to come to you because you do these things. You don't do it because you care for her. You are as bad as any other asshole she has ever dated. The difference is that you're passive aggressive about it and expect her to come to you.

 

[Woodsey]

Be a scumbag.

No I'm serious. If you always play it nice, you'll end up screwed over.

Alternatively, be a well-balanced human being. Nice Guys TM generally prove themselves to be walking carpets (and passive aggressive twats), but most people don't want to go out with a ****.

OT: You should have cut your losses and ran when she said she didn't like you in the first place.

 

[Yopaz]

OK, let me tell you this. You are not her friend. You are a doormat. You let her do these things to you because you have ambitions of being more than her friend. You believe you can manipulate her into liking you even though you don't admit it. When you let her vent your problems you put yourself in a position that will make her think of you as a great friend. However when she breaks up with her boyfriend you expect her to come to you because you do these things. You don't do it because you care for her. You are as bad as any other asshole she has ever dated. The difference is that you're passive aggressive about it and expect her to come to you.

It sounds like you're assuming a lot about the OP.

And um, how do you get the idea that he expects her to come to him? From his post:

Needless to say, she was destroyed. She'd grown to be so infatuated with him, when it is incredibly difficult for her to develop any feelings for anyone at all. She tried very hard to rebound, and due to a past promise, I tried equally hard to stop her. We both agree that it was the right thing to do for me to repeatedly reject her advances, but then we're led to the issue at hand.

Well it sounds like she came to him and he stopped her since they agreed it would be the right thing. Doesn't sound like he expected her to do it and wanted it to happen.

Sure, he did say that part. However he is complaining about how she went with another guy eventually and how that guy is an asshole and all that stuff. He is a friend who wants to be more, but doesn't actually do anything to change how things are, but whines about how they don't. Now that I have broken it down for you do you see where I'm going with this?

 

[lord.jeff]

Be a scumbag.

No I'm serious. If you always play it nice, you'll end up screwed over.

Because there's only one form of "Nice guy" and it never pull in the ass. Seriously, don't take Sane's advice. Be yourself and the people compatible to your personality will soon come.

"Be yourself", Heh. Ah yes, the mommy-answer to "why don't that nice guy/girl like me?".
"He/She just doesn't understand you! Be yourself and find someone that likes you for you!".

Ever figured that there might just be something wrong with who you are, and maybe change is a GOOD THING?
I could never accept the "be yourself"-talk.
If you want someone, be what they want you to be, if you find that it is an acceptable loss to give up part of what you are to get to be with someone you love.
It's a balance thing.
If you go with "be yourself", you might be true to "yourself", but you might just miss out on true love, or actually never get any love at all, simply because you refuse to comprimise.

And at what point do you reveal your true self because putting on a facade for someone everyday sounds really tiring. In other words you don't get true love if it's not you that's loved.

 

[Yopaz]

OK, let me tell you this. You are not her friend. You are a doormat. You let her do these things to you because you have ambitions of being more than her friend. You believe you can manipulate her into liking you even though you don't admit it. When you let her vent your problems you put yourself in a position that will make her think of you as a great friend. However when she breaks up with her boyfriend you expect her to come to you because you do these things. You don't do it because you care for her. You are as bad as any other asshole she has ever dated. The difference is that you're passive aggressive about it and expect her to come to you.

It sounds like you're assuming a lot about the OP.

And um, how do you get the idea that he expects her to come to him? From his post:

Needless to say, she was destroyed. She'd grown to be so infatuated with him, when it is incredibly difficult for her to develop any feelings for anyone at all. She tried very hard to rebound, and due to a past promise, I tried equally hard to stop her. We both agree that it was the right thing to do for me to repeatedly reject her advances, but then we're led to the issue at hand.

Well it sounds like she came to him and he stopped her since they agreed it would be the right thing. Doesn't sound like he expected her to do it and wanted it to happen.

Sure, he did say that part. However he is complaining about how she went with another guy eventually and how that guy is an asshole and all that stuff. He is a friend who wants to be more, but doesn't actually do anything to change how things are, but whines about how they don't. Now that I have broken it down for you do you see where I'm going with this?

You seem to be going nowhere that proves what he is trying to do contradicts the way he actually added.

Also btw, if you want to 'break it down', you might want to get your facts straight:

I may add that he's definitely not an asshole. He is a perfectly reasonable guy, I just object to the fact that he doesn't want her being such a huge part of her decision (again, her words, not mine).

Maybe try actually reading thoroughly next time? I also don't see him complaining that she did it. He wants to change things, but he isn't blaming anyone here.

Also he is asking what to do. So he actually does want to change how things are.

So yeah, you're full of crap.

I did read that, but I misread the post. Sorry for being human. Also did you read the thread title? "So sick of the friend zone"? That does indicate he wants to get out of the friend zone or did you miss that part?
So yeah, you did correct me on one detail I got wrong, but the facts are there:
He's got a crush on a girl.
The girl doesn't seem to be interested in him like that.
He still has a crush on the girl and keeps hanging with her improving their friendship after he was rejected.
He "is there for her" when she needs someone to talk to.
He keeps wants their relationship to change.
He feels so strongly on the matter that he feels the need to vent his feelings on an internet forum.

My conclusion might be incorrect, I will admit that. I do however have some solid reasoning behind it even if you can't see it.

 

[Yopaz]

Well gee, add that in with him wanting to change things and asking about where to go next and it sure looks like you're wrong to say that he doesn't do anything to change it. He seems to be planning to do something, whether it's give up on it or something else.

So yeah, you did correct me on one detail I got wrong, but the facts are there:
He's got a crush on a girl.
The girl doesn't seem to be interested in him like that.

Good so far.

He still has a crush on the girl and keeps hanging with her improving their friendship after he was rejected.

Yeah, prove that's the reason he keeps hanging with her. He wants it to improve, but do prove that he can't be hanging with her because they were friends anyway.

I did not say anything about what I think of the matter in that sentence. It is in his own post. He said that after he was rejected he kept hanging with her and their friendship grew. Seriously, I have to ask you if you read his post at this point.

He "is there for her" when she needs someone to talk to.
He keeps wants their relationship to change.
He feels so strongly on the matter that he feels the need to vent his feelings on an internet forum.

My conclusion might be incorrect, I will admit that. I do however have some solid reasoning behind it even if you can't see it.

Your reasoning has a fair bit of jumping to conclusions.d

You say my reasoning is stupid, but you don't care to comment on it. I have listed the facts I got from the OP and you know my conclusion, you have debated the facts and you didn't even bother to comment on the 3 last ones. If you believe my reasoning is wrong at least question the connections I make rather than say I am wrong because I am wrong. If you can't manage that then I see no reason to discuss this.

 

[Realitycrash]

Be a scumbag.

No I'm serious. If you always play it nice, you'll end up screwed over.

Because there's only one form of "Nice guy" and it never pull in the ass. Seriously, don't take Sane's advice. Be yourself and the people compatible to your personality will soon come.

"Be yourself", Heh. Ah yes, the mommy-answer to "why don't that nice guy/girl like me?".
"He/She just doesn't understand you! Be yourself and find someone that likes you for you!".

Ever figured that there might just be something wrong with who you are, and maybe change is a GOOD THING?
I could never accept the "be yourself"-talk.
If you want someone, be what they want you to be, if you find that it is an acceptable loss to give up part of what you are to get to be with someone you love.
It's a balance thing.
If you go with "be yourself", you might be true to "yourself", but you might just miss out on true love, or actually never get any love at all, simply because you refuse to comprimise.

And at what point do you reveal your true self because putting on a facade for someone everyday sounds really tiring. In other words you don't get true love if it's not you that's loved.

NEVER? The point is that you shuld be willing to compromise and CHANGE. Not stick to your "I'm good enough as I am and If she/he doesn't like me, sucks to be them. I'll just wait for the 'right one'"
Well, yes, you CAN wait for someone that is just so, so perfect and matches you..Or you can actually try to change a bit and realize that "Hey, I can be me, and myself, even if I do a few things differently!".

 

[Sneezeguard]

Giving up and don't bother with her it will be much easier. Just stay friends and move on.

 

[applesandoranges]

edit

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Be a scumbag.

No I'm serious. If you always play it nice, you'll end up screwed over.

Alternatively, be a well-balanced human being. Nice Guys TM generally prove themselves to be walking carpets (and passive aggressive twats), but most people don't want to go out with a ****.

OT: You should have cut your losses and ran when she said she didn't like you in the first place.

Ya know I've corrected myself to serval people that have called me on this, saying what I meant was just as you described.

I'm slowly realzing no one actually reads through threads before posting.

 

[lord.jeff]

Be a scumbag.

No I'm serious. If you always play it nice, you'll end up screwed over.

Because there's only one form of "Nice guy" and it never pull in the ass. Seriously, don't take Sane's advice. Be yourself and the people compatible to your personality will soon come.

"Be yourself", Heh. Ah yes, the mommy-answer to "why don't that nice guy/girl like me?".
"He/She just doesn't understand you! Be yourself and find someone that likes you for you!".

Ever figured that there might just be something wrong with who you are, and maybe change is a GOOD THING?
I could never accept the "be yourself"-talk.
If you want someone, be what they want you to be, if you find that it is an acceptable loss to give up part of what you are to get to be with someone you love.
It's a balance thing.
If you go with "be yourself", you might be true to "yourself", but you might just miss out on true love, or actually never get any love at all, simply because you refuse to comprimise.

And at what point do you reveal your true self because putting on a facade for someone everyday sounds really tiring. In other words you don't get true love if it's not you that's loved.

NEVER? The point is that you shuld be willing to compromise and CHANGE. Not stick to your "I'm good enough as I am and If she/he doesn't like me, sucks to be them. I'll just wait for the 'right one'"
Well, yes, you CAN wait for someone that is just so, so perfect and matches you..Or you can actually try to change a bit and realize that "Hey, I can be me, and myself, even if I do a few things differently!".

The term be yourself as I know it doesn't refer to stagnating your character growth but to not lying about who are, over selling yourself and lying about your interests in order to impress. But I still don't like the way your using it, it gets in to the idea of love them for what they could be(could be's rarely come to be) instead of what they are, which I still consider a bad idea. I have nothing against growing and maturing, in fact I support it and you should have a lover that supports and encourages that growth but would still love you in the moment.

 

[Woodsey]

Be a scumbag.

No I'm serious. If you always play it nice, you'll end up screwed over.

Alternatively, be a well-balanced human being. Nice Guys TM generally prove themselves to be walking carpets (and passive aggressive twats), but most people don't want to go out with a ****.

OT: You should have cut your losses and ran when she said she didn't like you in the first place.

Ya know I've corrected myself to serval people that have called me on this, saying what I meant was just as you described.

I'm slowly realzing no one actually reads through threads before posting.

Ha! Of course they don't! What a curious suggestion.

 

[Obsideo]

Be a scumbag.

No I'm serious. If you always play it nice, you'll end up screwed over.

Because there's only one form of "Nice guy" and it never pull in the ass. Seriously, don't take Sane's advice. Be yourself and the people compatible to your personality will soon come.

"Be yourself", Heh. Ah yes, the mommy-answer to "why don't that nice guy/girl like me?".
"He/She just doesn't understand you! Be yourself and find someone that likes you for you!".

Ever figured that there might just be something wrong with who you are, and maybe change is a GOOD THING?
I could never accept the "be yourself"-talk.
If you want someone, be what they want you to be, if you find that it is an acceptable loss to give up part of what you are to get to be with someone you love.
It's a balance thing.
If you go with "be yourself", you might be true to "yourself", but you might just miss out on true love, or actually never get any love at all, simply because you refuse to comprimise.

Jesus Christ, thank you.

That seems to be the most used advice for this subject and I've always hated it.

I think that "Be your best self" is a much better piece of advice.

Yes, stay true to yourself and all that, but don't passively sit back and wait for girls to roll in if there are serious self issues that you need to be dealing with.

 

[Bradeck]

I agree with Obsideo, "just be yourself" is usually told to people who's real self sucks, by people with rose colored glasses, ala parents. Obviously your mom is gonna say "Be yourself" because she loves you for you.

Unfortunately, Jenny McTightshirt who sits next to you in Math class doesn't like you for you. Because you smell/lookfunny/aren't cool/can't talk to girls/or are just not her type.

You can't hunt deer by using your natural scent, you have to smell/look/sound the way the deer wants you to. Same with women/people of the opposite sex. You have to be ATTRACTIVE.

If you cannot/will not become attractive, don't complain about being in the friend zone. That is right where you belong.

 

[Naeras]

Sorry if this offends anyone, "I think we should just be friends" is women speak for you're too ugly, smelly, weird, nerdy, stupid, or uncool to date me, and I can do a lot better than you" without all the hurt feelings. If a woman says that to you, she does not want to date you, so stop trying to force yourself on her.

That depends on whether or not they actually want to be friends with you or not. Which is completely possible if you react with "ah well, there's three billion other women on this planet" instead of "okay, maybe she'll change her mind later". Which most guys do. Urgh.

(also tips that I snipped away)

Honestly, none of these tips work without the one main ingredient for all of this to work: self-confidence. Women love that shit, and don't really give a damn about everything else if that's not in place.
The biggest lady-magnets I know of never needed to do anything specific to get female attention. They just got it, not because of apparent interests or stereotypical good looks, but because of, well, self-confidence. It works for me too, and I've never been one to hide the fact that I'm a massive nerd.

edit: I also agree with the post you made above mine. You do have to get attractive. I just don't think the (for the lack of a better word) "stereotypical" methods for how to turn attractive themselves are effective.