So, The Escapist is in the news again...

[Phrozenflame500]

I'm disappointed but not surprised. Honestly I feel more bad for Jim, the discussion he wanted to have quickly devolved into a back and forth shit-flinging contest over the Escapist's policies and how justified they were.

It's interesting to see the difference between the thread here and the one over at NeoGAF. While they share the "no admitting to adblocking our site" rule there were far less rages against the admins. I'm guessing a lot of people had built up rants over the ads here.

 

[Atomic Spy Crab]

I don't care if this gets me a warning or not but I seriously don't agree with this,censoring things doesn't really ever help, the thought and idea is still there and censoring it doesn't fix it.
"from the censorship-and-venom-will-surely-fix-everything dept"

EDIT: I am an american and an extreme believer of free speech, and I don't believe you should be allowed to get banned for talking about a certain aspect of your life style. The Escapist is starting to more and more resemble the extreme conservatives and churches it so extremely despises.

 

[Brownie80]

I think that the site would benefit on the community side if when they give out warnings or bans, they put the broken rule in beside the "User received a warning/User was banned" marker. That way everyone can see why they got disciplined in an open format.

I also think that they should message you the specific rule you broke when they hand you the infraction instead of just saying "You Broke the Rules!"

I've gotten four warnings and all of the messages I've gotten told me why I got said warning. They DO tell you. I even looked in my message history. However, if you DIDN'T know that I wouldn't go get a warning to go check. I wish I had no reason to know that they message you the rule, but I do.

OT: This whole _ _ _ _ _ _ _ thing has flew over my head. I didn't even know it EXISTED until Jim's video. It sounds, to me, that this is Extra Credits mk.II however I wasn't around then either. Shame about this whole debacle though.

 

[Mutie]

You either pay for content or put up with ads, don't be a thief. Yes, I abhor advertising, but I abhor theft even more. This "download" culture we have spawned is somewhat twisted... Yes, we should be able to view art at our leisure, but the people who make it still need affirmation.

 

[Callate]

Honestly, I think the techdirt article is a bit disingenuous. The fact of the matter is that most people don't block specific sites for harboring obnoxious ads; they block all the sites they can get away with blocking, and maybe unblock a few if they're feeling generous or other technical considerations prevent the use of the blocker.

Other than that, well, I made my opinion on the issue of the software itself evident in that topic's discussion, and I don't feel like courting sanction by going into further detail here. The techdirt article does have a point, but I think it goes too far and doesn't really provide any solutions other than kind of sneering, "Well, my forums have done just fine, be better, l00z3r."

 

[MisterGobbles]

The article is obviously more than a little biased against the Escapist, but they're right - it's obvious you're gonna have some sort of confusion when you post something that's gonna incite conversation like that. The discussion you can have about Adblock without disclosing any experiences you've had with it (short of including dishonest, obviously bullshit workarounds like "I used Adblock in the past, but I don't now lol") is extremely neutered, and not really worth having. Granted, everyone knew what they were getting into, and there were mostly only warnings given out which aren't anything to fret about, but it would have been a load off everyone's minds if they could just freely discuss the topic without worrying about having to word it in a way that wouldn't incite some form of mod wrath.

Even just amending the rule temporarily to "don't admit to using Adblock to block any form of ads on the Escapist" would have gone a very long way.

 

[Something Amyss]

The Mods either were not told this or were told by Ze Escapist that there will be no mercy.

And I really wish everyone had this sorted before the video went live. I'm not saying anyone's at fault, but it'd be nice to get a clear picture before all the warnings and flames started flying. However, there is also an element of common sense that should have been employed. People who started advocating really should have known better even without mod clarity.

But they won't warn you, because you didn't break a rule.

threads like that and this tend to lead to high emotions and caution. It seemed needlessly combative, though.

Man, I wonder how Kross feels about being called out like that XD

I'm not sure if I'd be amused or upset, honestly.

I think I'd be both, personally. It's soap opera drama and high school bull all wrapped up as news, which strikes me as though being called out would be funny and kind of annoying.

I half expected the article to mention who wasn't sitting with The Escapist at lunch.

You can't just hand us a get-out-of-jail-free card and expect us not to use it.

The thing is, we weren't given a "get out of jail free" card. It's not even news that the content creators can say and do things in their videos that would get us (or theoretically, even them) warned for posting. People really should have exercised more caution.

Especially after the third or fourth page with warnings and the like.

That's not to say it couldn't be handled better. It could.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140306/06471226459/escapist-website-content-creator-puts-up-video-about-adblock-moderators-warnsuspend-people-discussing-adblock-comments.shtml
Interesting read. I thought I'd share it with people who hadn't seen it.

Thanks for the link.

I agree with practically everything in that article. I'm glad that it didn't go after the mods but the site policies that force the mods to give out warnings in the first place.

I also find it sad that any good will that Jim might have gained in his video was then lost by the thread that followed.

 

[happy_turtle]

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20140306/06471226459/escapist-website-content-creator-puts-up-video-about-adblock-moderators-warnsuspend-people-discussing-adblock-comments.shtml
Interesting read. I thought I'd share it with people who hadn't seen it.

Thanks for the link.

I agree with practically everything in that article. I'm glad that it didn't go after the mods but the site policies that force the mods to give out warnings in the first place.

I also find it sad that any good will that Jim might have gained in his video was then lost by the thread that followed.

I think Jim managed to get a fair amount of good will from the video, I for one have unblocked adverts from the videos whilst managing to obscure some fo the more irritating audio banner adverts (takes time and knowledge of regex to accomplish, mainly time). The moderators on the otherhand could probably do with a brief training seminar on PR, as the whole thing was handled with the overkill of a plane crash.....on a boat.

 

[The Lunatic]

You know, it's kinda funny to think about.


The people whom are doing this, aren't going to change their opinion.

The people not doing it out of good will towards the site? Whelp, that good will has been tarnished.

 

[JoJo]

Late to the party but anyhow, it must be a slow news day on techdirt.com if Escapist drama is headlining there. Frankly, their article is also badly written, misrepresenting moderation policy and clearly is slanted against the site. Nevertheless, the Jimiquition thread could have been handled better in retrospect, much of the goodwill cultivated by Jim was lost in the shitstorm that followed over a few measly warnings, which let's be honest are effectively meaningless anyway, but well... we all saw the reaction. Obviously this has little to do with the mods, they can't choose which rules to enforce, the Escapist staff on the other hand have hopefully learnt a valuable lesson. Personally, if I was them I'd simply avoid making videos on topics like this in future, if you aren't willing to relax the rules for those content threads (which is fair enough) then all you're going to achieve in the end is creating an angry mob out of the opposing side smarting from hits with the banhammer and what's the point of that?

 

[TheIceQueen]

I thought the thread was quite clear when I first saw it. "Do not advocate the use of a******." So you have to be a bit more creative when you post, discussing the merits of both sides of the argument rather than just going "I USE [insert program here] AND THAT'S NOT GOING TO CHANGE." I simply see it as an extension of the reasoning behind the low-content warnings. You were told to discuss the arguments behind such programs, not to shout out about your use of them.

And as for the moderation? I agree with them fully. I administrate and moderate several sites, one of them with an Alexa rank of the top 500 in the US. The way I've been taught to run things and the way I've always moderated is that NO EXCEPTIONS. You run along the straight and narrow. When you allow for exceptions, when you allow for special treatment, you create inconsistency of moderation and inconsistency is the devil of moderation - something that many people here have accused Escapist staff of being.

If you don't want inconsistency, don't advocate inconsistency. If you didn't want to get warned about advocating the use of a certain program, you should have been more clever than that or just kept your mouth shut. If you didn't want to get warned for flaming, then maybe you should have taken a step back and gotten a handle on yourself instead of resorting to being petty. You know the rules. They don't change and if they do, you'll have been informed of them like with the last major update.

Edit: Also, I laughed really hard when I saw 'in the news' and then saw it was only a techdirt link. I think you're elevating them a bit far more than they're worth (and given from the writing of the article, that's not very much). They're about as much 'in the news' as most other nobody blogs.

 

[grey_space]

Am...I don't really care about some other random page on a random site on the internet.

Writer sounded like a bit of a ****.

I kinda agree with Jim, his proposal seemed fair enough; 'The ads are annoying but I need money to eat so don't be an arse and loudly proclaim that you use adblock because that ultimately affects my ability to make money'

That attitude also was said and discussed by a good few Escapist staff members during a PodCat a good while ago as I recall.

So I really can't see what the issue is.

If the ads are loud and annoying you do have a right to complain, so complain and discuss it with the escapist staff.

If you use adblock then the ads are not annoying;they don't effectively exist so shut the fuck up about it and enjoy the silence of uninterrupted viewing of free content.

Don't use adblock, then complain about the ads, then trumpet loudly that you use adblock because of the ads, then moan because you have been punished for basically being an arrogant ass.

Don't break the rules.
If you do break the rules and are getting away with it, don't fucking yodel that fact from the rooftops.

Not only is it a bit gauche, it's also retarded.

My two cents.

 

[IceForce]

I think we can either say ANYTHING or NOTHING AT ALL, because that's what "Freedom of Speech" actually means.

Ah, it's this old chestnut again.

Freedom of Speech doesn't apply on this forum, because this is not a government-run website.

Freedom of Speech laws only prevent the government from censoring you. Nothing more. That's it.

 

[IceForce]

I feel like the mods of this site don't really know how to moderate.. At all.

They abuse their privileges, they'll ban you for calling someone a raddish in a joking manner just as easy as they'll ban you for saying that you're a really big supporter of Hitler.

Sorry mods, but you have to actually learn why the fuck you moderate a forum. Separate "filtering out the vile community" from "suspending everyone". This is a web forum, not Auschwitz.

"Auschwitz"?

I don't understand your analogy. Are you comparing the Escapist to a prison?
Because I don't think the mods are holding anyone here hostage or against their will.

They ban people, yes. But that's them kicking people off the site, which is the complete opposite of a prison, no?

 

[IceForce]

It's actually all too rare to see someone who hasn't gotten at least one warning. That shouldn't be the case in any web forum.

Hi there. I've never gotten a warning, yet anyway.

That's not to say I agree with the mods all the time, or suck up to them or anything.
In fact, I'm probably quite often a thorn in the side of the mods on this site.

But no, I always try to keep my posts civil, and my comments constructive, even if I feel strongly or passionately about a particular topic.

 

[Amir Kondori]

The Escapist forums are not very well run. I don't think it is the moderator's fault, I think it is the system they are working under and the instructions they are given. I would probably post a lot more often if I didn't feel I had to be so careful what I wrote every time or risk a warning.

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

From the beginning of the thread in question:

Can mods give clarification on how we're to discuss this? Normally adblock threads are instantly closed with participants warned and if there's to even be a comments section for this video they'll have to be some sort of exception.

Briefly discussed with a moderator yesterday that exceptions would have to be made here. I cannot speak for the admins, but I would like to believe they understand that, in order to comment here, an armistice is gonna be needed.

So, about that armistice, Jim?

Are you blaming me or something?

I don't have the time or the mental wherewithal to get into a big discussion, but I stand by what I said. I requested exceptions, I wanted an armistice, but could not speak for the moderators. Believe it or not (and some people have a hard time believing it) I neither create nor enforce any policy at The Escapist. I'm a freelance content producer. Even my reviews editor position is technically freelance. I offer advice and make requests, and the site is generally gracious in its response to such things, but I wield no authority when it comes to community policy. That's the simple fact of the matter.

I have said on Twitter that I would not have issued warnings in that particular thread. I am sad things happened the way they did and, as a result, am rethinking a future video I'd planned which would be about a different, but similarly contentious issue. I will probably have to cancel that episode unless I make a very official request that gets very officially recognized beforehand.

In any case, I'm sorry things happened the way did, but the forum has a policy and, in all fairness, the mods did what they could to minimize the negative effects.

As for that Techdirt article, "dirt" is right. I am greatly disappointed that my video was so woefully misrepresented.