So then... 'bout those torrents?
- Thread starter Lovelocke
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AS far as I was aware, as long as you're not making any money off of your download, then you're perfectly fine to use it... such priate DVD sales and suchs.
Although accuiring say a movie via download is essentially theft.
So it's a odd argument really, we're all aware that downloading certain things is wrong because it's practically stealing, but as long as we're "stealing" purely for recreational use and for no profit of our own, It's not exactly the crime of the century.
At the end of the day for me, The only thing i'll download is music, which i buy legally from the iTunes store, the only reason i'd have to download it from a less credible source, is because you can't transport songs bought from iTunes on anything but your iPod and if you so much as try to use the music file in say an editting suite (which i use on a regular basis at college) we're not allowed because it's not a recognised file type.
So i'm perfectly within my right to download a usable version of the song I'm looking for, because I have purchased it and the movies I plan on making aren't going to make any profit any time soon, and if they ever do, I'll be clearing the music the proper way anyway.
The only other thing I've ever downloaded was my copy of Photoshop CS3, which I was forced into doing because my old CS completely screwed up on me and Photoshop isn't exactly cheap.
Although accuiring say a movie via download is essentially theft.
So it's a odd argument really, we're all aware that downloading certain things is wrong because it's practically stealing, but as long as we're "stealing" purely for recreational use and for no profit of our own, It's not exactly the crime of the century.
At the end of the day for me, The only thing i'll download is music, which i buy legally from the iTunes store, the only reason i'd have to download it from a less credible source, is because you can't transport songs bought from iTunes on anything but your iPod and if you so much as try to use the music file in say an editting suite (which i use on a regular basis at college) we're not allowed because it's not a recognised file type.
So i'm perfectly within my right to download a usable version of the song I'm looking for, because I have purchased it and the movies I plan on making aren't going to make any profit any time soon, and if they ever do, I'll be clearing the music the proper way anyway.
The only other thing I've ever downloaded was my copy of Photoshop CS3, which I was forced into doing because my old CS completely screwed up on me and Photoshop isn't exactly cheap.
Too many counterpoints to quote, but I will do my best to paraphrase and respond:
"Torrents themselves aren't illegal, though content may be."
True, and this also falls back to the Napster/MP3 standard: The MP3 may be just "data", but if the "data" happens to be copyrighted, then it is illegal to own/play/distribute that MP3. I would believe that, based on that standard, it wouldn't be completely out of the realm of possibility to think a future trial could base the entire case around "Intended Use" and "Actual Use"... the result? A digital prohibition of sorts... similar to how some illegal drugs or things like higher-powered weapons can become prohibited from use outside of very strict license-enabled individuals... if at all.
"You can't have an illegal format, that's like wanting to ban .jpg's for copyrighted material."
It has been done, actually... and in fact, I remember a few years back great effort was made towards banning the .gif file format, as *that* format was copyrighted and they didn't like the fact people were using it so freely. Additionally, Playstation 3 users feel the bite when they play Little Big Planet online and simply "theme" a level around existing IPs and so on, making it virtually impossible to create "fan"-themed stages and content. City of Heroes also had this backlash, as it was possible to create licensed Marvel Comics characters... or at least, characters that resembled them.
"It's only the owners of The Pirate Bay who have been found guilty, not all the users."
True too, but I think this rolls back onto the "Intended/Actual Use" thing I mentioned before. The result of this case found the guys guilty because they basically "facilitated" illegal file sharing... but it's only a matter of time before someone remembers that the ACTUAL file transfers occur between users: Therefore giving cause for the police to crackdown on users who, in turn, help facilitate torrent sites by factually delivering content, whereas the Torrent Sites merely help users "find each other".
It's not far fetched, no... in fact, the stories of RIAA/MPAA suing grandmas, children, etc for file sharing pop up all the time: And with frightening high success rates. Given enough successful prosecutions against users who DO promote illegal file sharing, a motion could be filed to ban the use of .torrent files, enforcible in the same way it's illegal to ask for child pornography online: Just because it's *virtual* data, doesn't make it less illegal to own/distribute and it *would* be illegal to have/share.
"Even if Torrents are made to be illegal, other methods to pirate software will surface."
Damn right, and when it does I'll be there.
"Torrents themselves aren't illegal, though content may be."
True, and this also falls back to the Napster/MP3 standard: The MP3 may be just "data", but if the "data" happens to be copyrighted, then it is illegal to own/play/distribute that MP3. I would believe that, based on that standard, it wouldn't be completely out of the realm of possibility to think a future trial could base the entire case around "Intended Use" and "Actual Use"... the result? A digital prohibition of sorts... similar to how some illegal drugs or things like higher-powered weapons can become prohibited from use outside of very strict license-enabled individuals... if at all.
"You can't have an illegal format, that's like wanting to ban .jpg's for copyrighted material."
It has been done, actually... and in fact, I remember a few years back great effort was made towards banning the .gif file format, as *that* format was copyrighted and they didn't like the fact people were using it so freely. Additionally, Playstation 3 users feel the bite when they play Little Big Planet online and simply "theme" a level around existing IPs and so on, making it virtually impossible to create "fan"-themed stages and content. City of Heroes also had this backlash, as it was possible to create licensed Marvel Comics characters... or at least, characters that resembled them.
"It's only the owners of The Pirate Bay who have been found guilty, not all the users."
True too, but I think this rolls back onto the "Intended/Actual Use" thing I mentioned before. The result of this case found the guys guilty because they basically "facilitated" illegal file sharing... but it's only a matter of time before someone remembers that the ACTUAL file transfers occur between users: Therefore giving cause for the police to crackdown on users who, in turn, help facilitate torrent sites by factually delivering content, whereas the Torrent Sites merely help users "find each other".
It's not far fetched, no... in fact, the stories of RIAA/MPAA suing grandmas, children, etc for file sharing pop up all the time: And with frightening high success rates. Given enough successful prosecutions against users who DO promote illegal file sharing, a motion could be filed to ban the use of .torrent files, enforcible in the same way it's illegal to ask for child pornography online: Just because it's *virtual* data, doesn't make it less illegal to own/distribute and it *would* be illegal to have/share.
"Even if Torrents are made to be illegal, other methods to pirate software will surface."
Damn right, and when it does I'll be there.
You fools! Canada won't do at all. We need more than maple syrup and hockey sticks to accomplish our goals... We need MINIONS! I agree that Canada has much resources and land, but without an insane number of troops our plans shall not be feasible.MaxTheReaper said:
To be serious: don't pirate stuff actively being sold, and you won't cause much fuss. For instance, you can't really find GB/N64 titles on sale anymore... Not that I actively support piracy of any flavor, but if it won't make the developers any money anymore, then I don't care.
Don't worry, don't worry. The owners of the pirate bay are just going to buy the micro-nation of Sealand. Once that is completed they will be able to single handedly topple the American entertainment industry. Or-according to the American entertainment industry-that is exactly what will happen. Yes. Copyrighted material is illegal to produce and duplicate so the torrents containing material like that that are illegal. But that can be fixed by moving the operation where the laws wont effect you.
Recognize the Micro-Nation of Sealand! Long live the king! Lordships cost twenty pounds, btw.
Recognize the Micro-Nation of Sealand! Long live the king! Lordships cost twenty pounds, btw.
Becaue I'm an idiot (see below) I need some clarification here. Are you saying that the people who upload the file to be shared are the criminals and the people who download them are not?Gruthar said:
The proof that I am an idiot is I was in a friends car and I was seeing if her cigarette lighter worked. I pulled it out and noticed the coil wasn't glowing red. So I touched it. This might be expected of a 5 year old. I'm 19.
You're just referring to the laws that everyone knows about. You don't steal, you don't kill etc. etc. But you know what? People would do that shit if they didn't get sued for it, you know. Many do already, and even more would, seeing what you said about why not murdering someone: 'Cause you know someone that liked them (as unlikely as that is, considering,) will come and beat you to death. This may be your opinion, but personally, I don't kill people because I would ruin many other lives, not only the one of the person murdered. Many innocent ones, but it has become cool to only think about yourself, and not think about any sorts of consequences. Reason#2 for not killing anybody: conscience.MaxTheReaper said:
Also, I'm not sure you really know what a law is, considering you think it's just some words that say "don't do this and that". You get, like, punished for not following the rules, you know.
What about the laws you have no fucking clue about? Like special taxes? Laws that ensure our food not getting poisoned? Are those unneccessary just because you think they're basics?
Look at what's with illegal (mainly chemical) drugs: One huge danger of those is that they're often not "pure". Unless you know the person who made the stuff you don't know what the fuck is inside - you think, if the person mixing the stuff drops his cigarette in the pot, he'd give two shits? Now, why is this the case? Because this stuff is prohibited, thus there are no sorts of purity requirements. What you're saying is that it's okay if this happened to our regular food, too; which leads me to the thought that you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.
Everyone is a criminal in your case, the thing is that the people enforcing the copyright laws only go after the worst offenders - it's not financially worth it for them to prosecute everyone who uploads or downloads a file illegally. When I was working at the University, we used to get a dozen or so cease and desist letters a month, directed at students in the dorms. The University would limit the students' internet access, but nothing else would come of it. No lawsuits or anything, because most of them didn't have that much stuff.Xan Krieger said:
The thing to keep in mind is that law enforcement can only know that you have illegally downloaded content if you keep sharing your stuff with other people as a seed or host. Unless they have a search warrant (which in turn requires probable cause), they cannot access your computer and peruse your files. Only if you are uploading copyrighted material to other people (which in effect is advertising it) can they say "Aha! This IP is distributing 1,234 copyrighted MP3s. This IP traces back to Joe Schmoe, and we can sue him for X amount of money. Worth it? Yes. Go go lawsuit!"
I've used torrents to get subbed episodes of Kamen Rider and Super Sentai in the past. These type of shows are not licensed in the West thus I feel are perfectly legal to download as a fan. I import the odd merchandise since I like to support the shows I love, however I can't exactly go to the shops and buy products that do not exist in my country.
ROMs I view as legal so long as you have an original copy of the software at home.
ROMs I view as legal so long as you have an original copy of the software at home.
Not a question of whether torrents are illegal, but whether what TBP does is. I personally say it isn't. They don't host any of the content on their site. If you want someone to apprehend, find people who are seeding and leeching. And if the justice system is as inept as I know it is, and says TBP is guilty, the punishment shouldn't be as high as they currently say it should be. A good point was brought up at some point in the case. Movie execs look at the downloads of their movie on torrent sites, and imagine each of those as a person buying their movie retail. Most people who download movies on TBP (myself included) wouldn't buy them otherwise. In fact, almost nobody would.
Torrents should be treated like Guns. Legal in the right hands, illegal in others. The whole concept of using bitTorrent is perfectly legal, it is no different to say FTP, other than the protocol it uses.