So what exactly are the people at Nintendo thinking?

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renegade7

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Now let me start off by saying: this isn't a "fanboy rage against Nintendo" thread. There are plenty of those, and I'm looking for intelligent (or at least reasoned) responses. I apologize that this will be rather lengthy, but I've had a lot of thoughts on the subject and really want to discuss them.

Now, this isn't just a problem of the last two years. It seems that for over a decade Nintendo has been either obstinately resistant to any sort of change, or making completely arbitrary changes that seem to be devoid of reason. Or, they have something good on their hands, and they botch it.

To start from the beginning.

The Virtual Boy really represents the first in a long line of major "What on Earth were they thinking?" moments. I'm not going to drag it back up in detail because every complaint about the Virtual Boy under the sun has already been heard. I really appreciate innovation, especially in such a fast-moving industry, but the eye strain, monochromatic red/black graphics, awkward controller, absolute lack of convenient portability, and the fact you need to crane your neck just to use it, these should all have been readily apparent as problems, or at least revealed by some kind of testing, at some point during the development cycle. I get the sense it was a pet project that was pushed through more on some R&D senior engineer's ego than anything else.

This sense of "I'm gonna do whatever I want and you can't stop me" will continue on to the present day.

The Nintendo 64 was a fantastic console. However, despite its theoretically superior hardware it was still trounced by the Playstation. The CD format, despite longer loading times, could hold an order of magnitude more information than the N64 cartridges. On top of that, the N64 was also harder to develop for. It launched with only 4 launch titles, IIRC, and it was plagued with somewhat lackluster sales through much of the early parts of its hardware cycle. Now, overall the N64 generation was positive: it brought the industry titles like Mario 64, Goldeneye, and Zelda OoT, which really set the standard for three-dimensional games. However, Nintendo made some significant mistakes, and this was where their resistance to change first became a serious problem.

The PS2 sold because it was a cheap media center in a time where DVD players were an expensive luxury. The Xbox succeeded, despite initial difficulties, because of Xbox Live. The Gamecube had only games, and didn't sell as well. Now, they were fantastic games (Metroid Prime and Wind Waker, for instance) but again, the Gamecube suffered because of Nintendo's 1.) refusal to adapt to a changing industry and 2.) lack of features.

Now, the Wii was an incredible success. That doesn't need to be written much about. However, it still has some problems. The Wii failed to impress the "core" market as much as the 360 and PS3 did. There was a lack of support from big budget games because of the Wii's significantly weaker hardware. It still had little multimedia capability, and what was slowly added over time was not paid much attention. Finally, where the 360 and PS3 had online capability, the online multiplayer system that Nintendo has with the Wii might have been okay in 1995, but certainly isn't competitive now: the Wifi infrastucture within the console is just plain mediocre, but the real problem is the lack of any unified online system like Xbox Live or Steam.

Now, let's talk about what was really touted as the primary purpose of the Wii. The whole purpose of the Wii, as they said it, wasn't just to sell to the casual market, but to ultimately get casual players into the "core market", and therefore cultivate brand loyalty in people that may well have never played video games before. They made a pretty big deal over that master plan in the year up to the Wii's release. Do you remember that? Probably not, because while they were successful in getting the product to the casual market, they did not follow through on expanding the core market. In between pathetic third party support, a lack of new IPs, and no advertisement of their "core" IPs (Mario, Metroid, Zelda) to this newly tapped casual market, they failed to create "new gamers", and therefore failed to create any new brand loyalty among this "casual audience", which is such a precious resource in the video game industry.

Now, the Wii U arrived on the scene...last year, I think? Anyway, where the Wii was this huge, hyped machine where Nintendo came out with all their guns blazing, it seems they really weren't that concerned about what would happen with the Wii U. They dropped it on the market with little fanfare, almost no advertising, and few impressive titles, either at launch or down the road, to speak of. The hardware is decidedly last generation (comparable to the PS3), and I'm not bringing that up in the manner of the "DURRR SYSTEM SPECS" argument that fanboys of any particular platform love to toss around. Optimization of a game for a new platform is hard enough on levels of difference between, say, PS4 and 720. Both are pretty close in processing power, and Sony learned from their mistakes with the Cell architecture and now uses an ARM processor, as does the 720. This makes cross platform optimization rather easy , which helps with third party support. It's hard to explain in brief (this post is getting long enough) without a heap of engineering talk, but the power of the hardware is a key factor in accessibility, and therefore in the number of people who will develop for it. Sony and Microsoft have 2013 hardware, Nintendo has 2008 hardware. Gameplay may be ultimately more important than processing power, but developing for two extremely different systems is a very expensive undertaking.

The Wii U is, additionally, plagued with many of the other problems of its predecessor: lack of internet accessibility and multimedia capability.

Now, the argument I hear often is "Well Nintendo isn't competing with Microsoft and Sony." That may be the case, Nintendo may not intend to compete, but I still have a problem with that argument. When you are a company with a product, you need to give people a reason to buy it; this is especially true with expensive products like consoles and video games. With the superior number of titles available to the 720 and PS4 and the numerous features they have that are lacking in the Wii U, no one is going to spend $300 on a Wii U just because "They aren't competing with the others".

tl;dr : Nintendo's greatest problems are their refusal to adapt in an ever-changing industry, a lack of effort to encourage third party support, and a lack of effort to serve their own fans and encourage or create brand loyalty. Ultimately, it's like they're just doing whatever they want, or just stabbing in the dark, and hoping things sell.

Despite all this, Nintendo's portable hardware sales continue to lead the industry. They may have missed out on the casual market with the prevalence of smartphone games, but the "core portable" market is completely theirs. Think this is a sign that Nintendo needs to focus primarily on portable machines?

Should Nintendo stick with the Wii U and try to make the best of it or pull the plug and start a new hardware cycle early? In either case, what would you want to see?
 

Saelune

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...The Wii U is completely different than the PS4 or Xbox One. That's why I own it, and will likely only get a PS4 OR Xbox One. It doesn't need multimedia, it has games. Im surprised it even has Netflix an Youtube on it since its not necessary.

The Wii U is the only console with any real exclusives. Hell, I only get exclusives on it. AC4 on Wii U will likely be inferior to the ones on the other systems, but it has tons of games worth playing that only they have and only they will ever have.

Nintendo is the only one who really does try to change things. The Wii was a huge change! (That Sony poorly copied)
And the 3DS is the only worthwhile 3D in gaming, no glasses required.

The best games for the Wii U are games made just for the Wii U. Visually Pikmin 3 is on par to any "good looking" modern game. I cant wait for the new SSB, when people will finally stop shutting their eyes to Nintendo in ignorance.
 

VG_Addict

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Pulling the plug on the Wii U when it's finally starting to get games would be a TERRIBLE decision. It would piss off not only consumers, but the few developers who ARE making games for the Wii U.

Also, the Wii U is obviously capable of good-looking games such as MK8, Bayonetta 2, and X.
 

Vylox

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Those numerous features are mostly irrelevant to a GAME console.
Let us list them.
Facebook
Netflix
YouTube
Twitter
Additional social media stuff.

Am I missing any key features that the PS4 and the XBox 1 have ?

Granted they have a plethora of multiplayer games, they are not things that everyone is wanting. Nintendo has multiplayer games too, however the multiplayer options for those Nintendo titles aren't forced.
While you might not like the wireless connectivity of the WiiU or Wii, it fits in well with Nintendo is using its servers, and at least paying attention to this interesting thing called bandwidth usage, something that many of the "major" titles and AAA games don't particularly seem to care about even if it is a REAL concern for a great number of gamers.

Nintendo does actually have an online service for the Wii, WiiU, and 3ds (even for the regular DS, but that is slightly different). This service has game sales (for ridiculously low prices too) along with extras and options for your system.
Also do note that Nintendo has yet to release a firmware patch to add basic functionality to either the WiiU or the 3DS, unlike Sony and Microsoft, who have day 1 patches for the PS4 and XB1 so that those consoles actually function as intended.

And let us not forget that the DLC for Nintendo titles have no cost to the end user, and they are all entirely optional. Unlike the majority of titles for the other 2 consoles, where the bulk of the DLC is paid for content and a large chunk of that content is not exactly optional when looking at the whole experience for the games that offer it.

One more thing I would like to point out is the overall lack of outside advertisement on the Nintendo systems (WiiU and 3DS), meaning that there are no ads from other companies, which can not be said for the PS3, XBox 360, PS4, or XBox1.


I believe the better question is not what are the guys at Nintendo thinking, but what are the folks at Microsoft and Sony thinking. As Nintendo is providing games, and pretty much JUST games, whereas Microsoft and Sony are providing games with all sorts of additional crap tacked on and embedded into their consoles and titles.
 

Saelune

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Vylox said:
Those numerous features are mostly irrelevant to a GAME console.
Let us list them.
Facebook
Netflix
YouTube
Twitter
Additional social media stuff.

Am I missing any key features that the PS4 and the XBox 1 have ?

Granted they have a plethora of multiplayer games, they are not things that everyone is wanting. Nintendo has multiplayer games too, however the multiplayer options for those Nintendo titles aren't forced.
While you might not like the wireless connectivity of the WiiU or Wii, it fits in well with Nintendo is using its servers, and at least paying attention to this interesting thing called bandwidth usage, something that many of the "major" titles and AAA games don't particularly seem to care about even if it is a REAL concern for a great number of gamers.

Nintendo does actually have an online service for the Wii, WiiU, and 3ds (even for the regular DS, but that is slightly different). This service has game sales (for ridiculously low prices too) along with extras and options for your system.
Also do note that Nintendo has yet to release a firmware patch to add basic functionality to either the WiiU or the 3DS, unlike Sony and Microsoft, who have day 1 patches for the PS4 and XB1 so that those consoles actually function as intended.

And let us not forget that the DLC for Nintendo titles have no cost to the end user, and they are all entirely optional. Unlike the majority of titles for the other 2 consoles, where the bulk of the DLC is paid for content and a large chunk of that content is not exactly optional when looking at the whole experience for the games that offer it.

One more thing I would like to point out is the overall lack of outside advertisement on the Nintendo systems (WiiU and 3DS), meaning that there are no ads from other companies, which can not be said for the PS3, XBox 360, PS4, or XBox1.


I believe the better question is not what are the guys at Nintendo thinking, but what are the folks at Microsoft and Sony thinking. As Nintendo is providing games, and pretty much JUST games, whereas Microsoft and Sony are providing games with all sorts of additional crap tacked on and embedded into their consoles and titles.
Nintendo is the only one of the 3 who is a game developer who is also run at the top by....game developers. Mentioned it in my post before, but its something I think that is amazing and overlooked.
 

likalaruku

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I guess the Wii family is kinda like Window 8; It's just TOO different from our comfort zone. I also read resentment of how their non core franchise games are TOO casual, that they're sitting on some good old IPs that are going to waste, that the Power Glove was bad then & the concept still doesn't appeal to them as a Wiimote, & they still won't make a Pokemon MMO despite the demand for one.

The Wii U itself; most people still don't know what it really is. Some think it's an expansion for the Wii, some think that it's like the much-loved 3DS & pointlessly competing with it.

I'm reading how that when they cut the price of the Wii U by $50 with Windwaker HD & a free copy of Hyrule Historia, the sales shot up 200%.
 

renegade7

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Vylox said:
Those numerous features are mostly irrelevant to a GAME console.
Nintendo stands to lose nothing from adding those features, given that they are losing sales to companies that include them as primary selling points. People, clearly, want those features, and Nintendo is losing market share to companies who aren't so obstinate about not providing them.
 

Weaver

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There's still just not much I want to play on the WiiU. Some monster hunter and maybe a mario game aren't going to get me to drop that much on a System.
 

Hero of Lime

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Honestly, for every good change Nintendo doesn't implement like the other two, they resist all the bad ones as well.

It took Nintendo till just a year ago to go HD? Well they still have Backwards Compatibility.

Nintendo has only recently embraced more online features? No DRM, always online, and other bad policies like that are on their horizon, unlike the other two.

Few third parties? They are still conservative in regards to overuse of DLC and Micro-transactions.

Embraced the casual market too much? So do the other two, they just go for the dude bros rather than families.

I get what you are saying OP, they can be late to jump on positive bandwagons no doubt. But for all of Nintendo's faults in recent times, there are so many ways they resist implementing bad policies that gamers really come to appreciate. Plus, I haven't heard a really good argument in favor of Nintendo systems turning into multimedia machines. Especially when they've chosen to retain their image as a games company first and foremost.
 

Saelune

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renegade7 said:
Vylox said:
Those numerous features are mostly irrelevant to a GAME console.
Nintendo stands to lose nothing from adding those features, given that they are losing sales to companies that include them as primary selling points. People, clearly, want those features, and Nintendo is losing market share to companies who aren't so obstinate about not providing them.
The Wii U has Netflix and Youtube by the way. Just because Nintendo isn't making the most money possible, doesn't mean they are failing.
 

Brian Tams

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renegade7 said:
Vylox said:
Those numerous features are mostly irrelevant to a GAME console.
Nintendo stands to lose nothing from adding those features, given that they are losing sales to companies that include them as primary selling points. People, clearly, want those features, and Nintendo is losing market share to companies who aren't so obstinate about not providing them.
You have no data to back that up. None. Until you present to me data saying that consumers are buying the XB1 and PS4 because they have access to twitter, facebook, etc., then you are making an assumption, and its a bad one.

You know what the core gamers biggest complaint is of AAA developers and publishers? Too often, they look at a game that does well and pinpoints a single feature that the game had and say "Well, if we implement this into our game, ours will do well too!". This is called stagnation.

You're doing the same exact thing. What you're saying is "These consoles are selling well. These consoles have frivolous features like twitter access. Clearly, that is why they're selling", while completely ignoring other factors such as brand trust, exclusives, familiarity, etc.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
One of the biggest problems with the wiiU was the name, apparently more than a few people thought it was just a tablet for the wii and didn't realize it was actually a whole new console.
 

thiosk

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It seems to me that the Xbone-Ps4 game environment is degenerating into a gimmicky way to deliver yearly CODs to the multiplayer shooter playerbase.

There is really nothing on either platform that I'm interested in that I can't get from a PC. At least back on Xbox and Ps2 era, there were large libraries and games designed in such a way that really took advantage of the hardware.

Maybe its just that I'm all grown up, but I'm finding the indie scene and the niche titles available on the PC to be the only stuff I'm really interested in.

New zelda and metroid titles will always keep me coming back to nintendo. Dont have a wiiu, but I'd be happy to pick one up if the first party titles really get their act together.
 

EyeReaper

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I think the best thing Nintendo has going for it is local multiplayer, and I think they agree. The wii/wii u is the best console in my eyes when you have a group of people, because it's the only console that has good party games it seems. Both xbox and sony don't really have anything to compete with the mario parties and the Wariowares, as far as I can tell, and it's games like that which keep me buying. Like you said, Nintendo is kinda behind on the times compared to the other two, but as xbox and sony have fully embraced online, nintendo prefers the couch multiplayer, and I absolutely love them for that.
 

Chaos James

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Really, whatever Nintendo is thinking, it's working.

The Wii had Motion Controls. Sure, not everyone likes them (I personally find them unreliable) but that didn't stop the Xbox 360 and PS3 from adding Motion Control support to their consoles afterwards.

The Wii U has a second screen, in the controller. I might not be able to play any console ever again now that I've had a taste of not needing a TV for console gaming. My Wii U is SO PORTABLE for going to friends and such. What do Sony and Microsoft do? PSVita Support for a second screen! SmartGlass so you can have maps and such! Jeez, that wasn't obvious or anything there.

Anyways, those are just two examples I see where Nintendo has been on the ball for trying something new and others running with the ideas.

At the end of the day though, Nintendo makes games, I play games, so we have a happy time together. About the only "extra" I like on my Wii U is Netflix, everything else isn't really needed.
 

Billy D Williams

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Saelune said:
The Wii U is the only console with any real exclusives. Hell, I only get exclusives on it. AC4 on Wii U will likely be inferior to the ones on the other systems, but it has tons of games worth playing that only they have and only they will ever have.
http://i.imgur.com/3uZQpxB.jpg

Not really, it has about the same as an Xbone and a little more than a PS4.

Saelune said:
Nintendo is the only one who really does try to change things. The Wii was a huge change! (That Sony poorly copied)
And the 3DS is the only worthwhile 3D in gaming, no glasses required.
Well, if you like it I guess I'm glad for you, but I don't know anyone who doesn't turn that 3D of the second they power up the system, and motion controls have and always will be terrible in most all cases, not just because of input lag and them being inaccurate but because they are a flawed concept. Motion controls can never truly mimick most games, if Link's sword get blocked by a shield but my hand keeps going that is immersion breaking. The tablet controller on the Wii U also just doesn't really seem like its enough to justify what a hassle it is, with it being bulky and having a 3 hour battery.

Saelune said:
The best games for the Wii U are games made just for the Wii U. Visually Pikmin 3 is on par to any "good looking" modern game. I cant wait for the new SSB, when people will finally stop shutting their eyes to Nintendo in ignorance.
And there lies my biggest problem. You say what's going to sell the system are games like Pikmin 3 and SSB. Well, if I want to play Pikmin or SSB I'll just play my Gamecube or my Wii. I don't see a reason to buy a console just for sequels that, while definately quality games, are nothing more than retreads of the last ones. I've played Zelda a dozen times before, I don't really need to again. I want Nintendo to make something new. If you're happy with your purchace than congrats, I'm genuinely glad you like it. I just don't understand why you do.
 

Vylox

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renegade7 said:
Vylox said:
Those numerous features are mostly irrelevant to a GAME console.
Nintendo stands to lose nothing from adding those features, given that they are losing sales to companies that include them as primary selling points. People, clearly, want those features, and Nintendo is losing market share to companies who aren't so obstinate about not providing them.
Not so, they stand to loose money by adding them. There are contractual obligations which incur a cost to have some of those particular features. They aren't free for Sony, they aren't free for MicroSoft, they have a contractual cost.

Also, if people clearly want those features, put up some surveys or data to back that up. From what I have seen and heard and read about on the internet, those features are generally scoffed at and on the whole seem to be unwanted by gamers. On the other hand, if you want to play the new games, you have to buy the new systems. Which is a selling point.


@Billy D Williams

How is that any different than the mass of folks who keep buying NFL, MLB, NBA games ? Or the slew of carbon copy CoD/MW/Halo games? Also I feel obligated to point out that those same big name shooter games and sports games are struggling to turn profits even though they are selling millions of copies with huge chunks of the games already written and available from their previous incarnations. Do you really believe that those games which are at worst 80% the same as the previous version shouldn't make major profits thwith huge sales? Yet those are the games companies are putting out and selling. And while I will admit that Nintendo does this, the games that are released tend to have more than just a couple of minor changes/edits. Unlike the sports titles which literally have nothing more than roster changes, or the shooter games that only have different cut scenes.
 

Guffe

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Worgen said:
One of the biggest problems with the wiiU was the name, apparently more than a few people thought it was just a tablet for the wii and didn't realize it was actually a whole new console.
I think you hit the nail on head.

The worst thing Nintendo could do was jump on to the "console name by generation" thing.
Everyone knows that PS4 is a new console from PS3 because Sony has done that since the start, same with Xbox, then Xbox360 I sort of still wonder why Microsoft didn't go with 720 but chose the word "one" at the end, like the change would be soo HUGE they needed to go back to the start...

But Nintendo has been N64, then GC, then Wii and now the WiiU. For people not waiting for a new console and seeing everywhere just the picture of the tablet I don't blame people for thinking the WiiU was just a new controller for the old console. Even if they wouldn't have had any more marketing I think if the new Nintendo console would've been called, for example, Nintendo DiscScratcher then people would've wondered what it was, insetad of thinking the "U" at the end of "Wii" meant an upgrade of some sort.

Other than that, well Nintendo have a new-old console out for a year now, finally there are some more games on the horizon (althou I have played like hell on mine, mainly due to not having owned a PS3/XB360 and all the ports I've played and downloadable games form the eshop).
But I am enjoying my console, my friends are enjoying it on multiplayer games and I certainly seem to be getting enjoyment out of it for a good more while.

Every console has its good and bad specs/games/fans and that's the beauty of it, competition!
If everyone would not take it so bloody seriously!
 

Smooth Operator

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Well considering their past market WiiU really only has one chance to compete, slash the prices by years end.
The only reason Wii was outselling everyone is because it was by far the cheapest, so when families decide what to get for christmas that would be the obvious choice and they got all the family/kids friendly gaming to go along, that market will not care one bit if you got any serious games on the side.

Because right now all the determined Nintendo fans already got a WiiU and the rest have no reason to get one without big incentives.