So what videogames do you consider to be GOOD art?

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GonzoGamer

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Axeli said:
This always reminds me of a quote from Dexter:

[looks at a landscape painting of a cabin]
"That's not art, it's cottage porn"
Was that from the show or the books?

IMO ? All of them. If these images (created by ?art departments?) were static and printed on paper, they would be considered art. Why should there be a difference? Okay so maybe games aren?t so much art as they are virtual museums where we get to interact with different art elements like graphics, story, music, and choreography. Either way, it?s art.

But if I had to be more strict and consider games as some sort of non-artform of entertainment like porn or some sports (though even that is arguable-especially when you consider that under Ebert's definition, porn can be art) , I would say any game made by Q Games or Q Entertainment.

I don?t know if the letter Q has anything to do with it but those games are art. Play Rez and Pixel Junk Eden, then try and argue.

What we should thank Ebert for is giving us reason to consider the debate as it has made us look at our games from a different perspective and that?s always good. Without his snobbery, we may have never given it thought.
 

Tanfastic

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Aug 5, 2009
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Pretty much any series that doesn't throw a sequel at us every year just to get money.

(Yes i'm looking at you sports games and CoD! Although some may be fun...)
 

Spark Ignition

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Oh god yes Team Silent era Silent Hill YES. I adored The Room. Like all Silent Hill games it was dripping with atmosphere, terrifying, unsettling and sad, while introducing large plots/concepts that really made you think. Thank you for reminding me, I don't know how I forgot them!
 

illas

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Apr 4, 2010
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Debates over "what is art?" aside, be careful to not get too caught up in aesthetics. Movies and books, for example, are art too. Any content that creates emotion is art.

So Firstly, I'd recommend "Ico" as a spectacular example of mainstream(-ish) videogames creating emotion. The implicit, user-created interplay between the main characters is brilliant. Furthermore, this article *may* be of use: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/3358016/Why-videogamers-are-artists-at-heart.html (It begins by quoting the Robert Ebert line and the paragraphs regarding interactivity as key to the artistry are particularly interesting).

Furthermore, the Source Engine mod "Dear Esther" is, to me, the easiest to regard as art given the lack of conventional gameplay and superb storytelling (or lack thereof!). The same could be said for "The Path".

Dear Esther editorial on RPS: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/05/15/touched-by-the-hand-of-mod-dear-esther/
The Path: http://tale-of-tales.com/ThePath/

Best of luck.
 

Spark Ignition

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GonzoGamer said:
Axeli said:
This always reminds me of a quote from Dexter:

[looks at a landscape painting of a cabin]
"That's not art, it's cottage porn"
Was that from the show or the books?

IMO ? All of them. If these images (created by ?art departments?) were static and printed on paper, they would be considered art. Why should there be a difference? Okay so maybe games aren?t so much art as they are virtual museums where we get to interact with different art elements like graphics, story, music, and choreography. Either way, it?s art.

But if I had to be more strict and consider games as some sort of non-artform of entertainment like porn or some sports (though even that is arguable-especially when you consider that under Ebert's definition, porn can be art) , I would say any game made by Q Games or Q Entertainment.

I don?t know if the letter Q has anything to do with it but those games are art. Play Rez and Pixel Junk Eden, then try and argue.

What we should thank Ebert for is giving us reason to consider the debate as it has made us look at our games from a different perspective and that?s always good. Without his snobbery, we may have never given it thought.

Is from series 2 (I don't like the books, too predictable and fairly badly written. Also the whole charm of the series is that Dexter is so LIKEABLE for a serial killer, which he defintely isn't in the books. I'll look into both those games, thanks!

And yes, Planescape. Fantastic game that, and with more text in it than most medium length books. Defintely makes you think about philosophy (as is the point, based as it is in a city where your philosophy defines you as a person rather than your ethics or actions). Also so, so atmospheric thanks to both the visuals and sound, and some truly amazing NPCs.
 

Spark Ignition

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Indeed. The question though is which games are effective as art? Sorry I tried to explain that the title was just to grab people's attention!
 

MonstersInMyCloset

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Jul 26, 2009
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i always thought of the silent hill series being art. as it is less a game and more of an experience.

the controls, the camera, the puzzles, the weirdness. its all there to disorient you and make you scared. its not really about having a game you pick up when your bored.
 

EatPieYes

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Jul 22, 2010
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All video games are art, in my humble opinion. But I don't play a game for the "artiness" of it, and you probably don't either. I play them as they have entertainment value for me or stimulates my mind or simply engages me. That same way of approaching art can be applied to basically every art form. You don't look at a painting and decide you like it because it's art. It's because it says something to you. Someone has communicated something to you. That is art.
 

CheckD3

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The only thing that playing a game for your arguement would do is support the notion that games are art. Think about movies, which are called art by pretty much everyone (except some of us gamers now thanks to Mr. Roger). You still have crappy movies, but even the worst movie in the world stands next to the best and is considered art.

Games are the same. Just because it's poorly designed and horribly told and the controls are shit doesn't mean that it isn't art, it's just BAD art, but it still envokes emotions. If anything, the worst and best games are the best to use as examples, as both give you emotions. Just coming off watching Yahtzees review of Amnesia, it started off with him being bored, then scared. It envoked emotions in him because of his interaction with it. Now take Kane and Lynch 2, a game he hated. It still envoked hatred in him. The camera made him angry and frustrated, the cover base of Mafia II also upset him. Bad games are as much art as good games, and if you want to prove it, just play a game you dislike, or a game you might dislike, and a game you like and start a timer while playing. Everytime you feel a new emotion, write that emotion down. Happiness, anger, frustration, sorrow, nervousness, ect, and that will help prove your point. Because Art should make one feel emotions
 

kurokotetsu

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Sep 17, 2008
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First, my definition of art is along teh lines of that which explores humanity in a meaningful way. Balde Runner is art, and Don Quixote is art. But also, the basic is also art. Some Disney films seem art to me. SO There is a real problem. The definition of art is subjective. Also, for a medium to be art not all representatives must be art. Conan isn't art, but Kurosawa is. So therefore, no matter if they (or you) give them counterexamples, that isn't a descriditation. I would suggest that you find examples of why is art, why it fits in your definition (clearly stated and probably argumented). But you're definition is the most important thing. For some everything is art, for others some is art. Just think what you consider art and argue why games fot or not. With such a subjective thing as the definition of art, you have to argue your own.

If you go for visual style art, Okami, Muramasa, Odin Sphere are great examples.

But for my definitin I would give diferent examples. No More Heroes explores adoration, psychotic and even changing morale system, specially the second one in a scene were it explores the reality of even virtual characters (also, the multiple posible interpretations add to it's art status). Muramasa, based on kabuki plays explores love and ambition. Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Surivor, as there is no bad paths, it is only your choice of morale. And Mario games, for the Disney like appeal.

I always wanted to do video reviews about this topic, but all I've written is too dry and not knowing how to edit videos i haven't tried.
 

Jaranja

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Onyx Oblivion said:
Okami works...

But mostly all of them.

Music is art.

Animation is art.

Games have music and animation. How is that not art?
It's quite funny. The one thing I don't consider to be art are paintings/sculptures. Those kind of things.
 

DanielSPG

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Nov 10, 2009
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Canid117 said:
All of them. Remember not all art is good art.
I don't agree with what you say here completely, but you make a great point! Most of the suggestions I've seen here are either games with original gameplay, original graphic design, great storytelling or generally incredibly good games. But does either of these features allow games to wear the label of "art" or is it just good entertainment? I for one do not consider all music for instance to be art, because most pop music is just entertainment, which I consider to be a difference.

In most media this difference can be made. Most movies and music can be categorized in either "entertainment" or "art". Admittedly there's a great grey area. Most game developers obviously want to sell their games so they are more likely to pursue the "entertainment" category. Offcourse they want their game to stand out between all the other games, so they will add something original (like cell shaded graphics, great storytelling etc..)

I definitly believe there are games out there that are truly art, but what such a game should have that "mainstream" games dont have? I don;t know, but I'm very interested in what you find out. The only game that I would consider is Portal but I seem to be at a loss coming up with arguments for this.
 

Spark Ignition

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EatPieYes said:
All video games are art, in my humble opinion. But I don't play a game for the "artiness" of it, and you probably don't either. I play them as they have entertainment value for me or stimulates my mind or simply engages me. That same way of approaching art can be applied to basically every art form. You don't look at a painting and decide you like it because it's art. It's because it says something to you. Someone has communicated something to you. That is art.
Agreed, very much agreed. But that's what I consider the effectiveness of a piece of art (eg a game), how much it stimulates you mentally and emotionally.


CheckD3 said:
The only thing that playing a game for your arguement would do is support the notion that games are art. Think about movies, which are called art by pretty much everyone (except some of us gamers now thanks to Mr. Roger). You still have crappy movies, but even the worst movie in the world stands next to the best and is considered art.

Games are the same. Just because it's poorly designed and horribly told and the controls are shit doesn't mean that it isn't art, it's just BAD art, but it still envokes emotions. If anything, the worst and best games are the best to use as examples, as both give you emotions. Just coming off watching Yahtzees review of Amnesia, it started off with him being bored, then scared. It envoked emotions in him because of his interaction with it. Now take Kane and Lynch 2, a game he hated. It still envoked hatred in him. The camera made him angry and frustrated, the cover base of Mafia II also upset him. Bad games are as much art as good games, and if you want to prove it, just play a game you dislike, or a game you might dislike, and a game you like and start a timer while playing. Everytime you feel a new emotion, write that emotion down. Happiness, anger, frustration, sorrow, nervousness, ect, and that will help prove your point. Because Art should make one feel emotions

Indeed I agree that all games are art. But a game that makes you enraged because it's a bad game is not an effective piece of art, unless the dev team wanted to make it infuriatingly bad, in which case they succeeded but still created something with little lasting value. This does happen in the 'fine art' world however. Just look at Tracey Emin and that abomination 'bed'. The piece was made deliberately to wind people up, and as a consequence people now expect that of her, her reputation has suffered and people are going itno her exhibitions having previously decided they're going to hate it. What I mean by an effective piece of art is one that succeeds very well in engaging you in the intended emotions. A horror movie that provokes fear has succeeded by the creator's own standards. One that is unintentionally hilarious is provoking a response, but not the intended one and as such is inneffective fromt he creators perspective, but possible of value on it's own merit (it's hilarious!). Sorry that's quite convoluted, but basically I agree with you, however I would make a distinction between art that succeeds at conjuring the emotions it was intended to and art that has misseed the mark somewhat.


EDIT: THe purpose of playing a game and submitting it to an in-depth artistic critique as one would a painting or sculpture, (this is the point of this discussion) is to not just say that games are art, but to prove it, by showing that you can go into just as much depth analysing a game from an artistic viewpoint as you could any other accepted artistic medium (for instance film).
 

Generic_Dave

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Jul 15, 2009
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I'd ask which paintings are art? Which sculptures? Which Films?

They all are...some are just better examples than others.
 

Jaded Scribe

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Mar 29, 2010
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Heavy Rain. Playing through it ("roleplaying" by picking what you would most likely do in the situation, and not metagaming) really causes the player to question how far they would go to save someone they loved.

Combat is stressful as you are given buttons to push based on what is happening around you (just like in real life, where you are reacting to unpredictable actions, rather than having a standard button map). When your character is under emotional/mental duress, your choices of what to do and say are harder to see, so it's possible to say/do the wrong thing, just as in life.