So you say women are being sexualized in games, eh?

[ilovedawkins]

Pretty much the only female character in all media that is portrayed as a person and not a sex object, love interest, manipulative villain, mother figure etc is Liz Lemon from thirty rock.

Seriously she's the only one with as much character depth as a male protagonist might be given. No other female characters are able to stand alone without a 'label.'

Why is that a good thing?


Why are all those things you listed bad compared to "soldier" "working man" "passionate competitor" "inspiring gifted individual" "father" "brother" "uncle" "protector" and so on?

Those, at least some, from both categories, are human things and it's highly unlikely that a person would not have at least SOME of them.


Do you know of any male protagonists with such "depth" who didn't have the male equivalents of these above things?

What I mean by label is that the character is defined by one (or only a few of the elements that make up their personality.)

A 'sexy woman character' may be shown as only existing to be 'sexy' but it ignores all the other things that make up a real women they are daughters, sisters, peoples friends, they get spots sometimes they fart they don't get paid as much as their males colleague for doing the same job etc.

Like If you were to go to a poll dancing club you aren't just leering over 'sex objects' you are leering over mothers daughters and sisters. Sexualized women in media don't have the plethora of labels that make up a whole person they only have the one that says 'sexy.'

 

[Gigano]

Not that sexualization of either gender is really a problem though, as long as it doesn't depict either of them as inferior to the other, reduced to being weak and ready for use. Look at Bayonetta, sexualized to hell and back, but not in any oppressive manner.

i agree, its not a problem unless there are girls beng portrayed as sex slaves in video games and im sure that would never happen .(but if it did id have to don my IIPA and KILL EVERYONE in the company that made said game.)

As long as you stay away from a few severely unpleasant Japanese games, I'm confident such bloodshed thankfully won't ever be necessary. If nothing else because misogyny really doesn't sell at all around these parts, but hopefully also because the industry in general considers itself well above such vile depictions even if there was a market for them.

 

[Dethpixie]

I agree, by the way. God of War did have a good story, and I wouldn't complain if a good-lookin' babe with massive breats and rear wearing nothing but floss actually had a backstory and a personality beyond "I wanna fuck!" or "I will kill you, *****!"

Because if a found a girl who actually acted with those two personality traits, I would haul ass to the moon.

*slaps monitor*

See, this guy gets it. Sexualization isn't a bad thing or so long as it's backed up with strong characterization. We're just so conditioned to think of the two as mutually exclusive because characters too often to fall into one of those stereotypes.

Someone from one of the other threads referenced Elena from Uncharted and I think that's a great example of a character who is attractive and independent, but even the "femme fatale" character from Uncharted 2 (who's name totally escapes me right now) had strong characterization and personality despite being more seductive than Elena. That was simply a part of her character, it didn't make her any less believable or interesting.

 

[infinity_turtles]

Not that sexualization of either gender is really a problem though, as long as it doesn't depict either of them as inferior to the other, reduced to being weak and ready for use. Look at Bayonetta, sexualized to hell and back, but not in any oppressive manner.

i agree, its not a problem unless there are girls beng portrayed as sex slaves in video games and im sure that would never happen .(but if it did id have to don my IIPA and KILL EVERYONE in the company that made said game.)

As long as you stay away from a few severely unpleasant Japanese games, I'm confident such bloodshed thankfully won't ever be necessary. If nothing else because misogyny really doesn't sell at all around these parts, but hopefully also because the industry in general considers itself well above such vile depictions even if there was a market for them.

But according to the latest extra-credit video, it'll soon be possible for developers to target niche markets. Clearly it's only a matter of time before "Sexslaves7: The Tightest Orifice" comes out.

 

[Samechiel]

Female protagonists are a Catch 22.

If she's physically attractive, it's sexist because she's a sexualized bimbo that degrades women.

If she's intelligent, it's sexist because she propogates the stereotype that women are weak and can't stand on the front lines like a man.

If she's strong, it's sexist because she's just a male stand-in with tits.

If she's a normal girl that Gets Shit Done, it's sexist because she's a throwaway appeasement character.

If you get frustrated and just decide to have a male protagonist, it's sexist because he isn't a woman.

 

[GiantRaven]

Are 'manly' characters in games also not aimed at the male audience? Meaning that both the over-the-top males and females are aimed towards the same people. That seems a little unfair to me.

Personally, I'd rather do away with the overwhelming majority of the over-the-top hyper-sexualised characters. I find it incredibly demeaning to be continuously exposed to them.

 

[Gigano]

...
But according to the latest extra-credit video, it'll soon be possible for developers to target niche markets. Clearly it's only a matter of time before "Sexslaves7: The Tightest Orifice" comes out.

That's where the "hey, maybe we just shouldn't make shit like this even if there's a few bucks to squeeze" thing is supposed to come in...

...Not that the subject matter should be off limits of course, great movies have dealt nuancedly with the darkest of themes, and there's no reason games couldn't explore them as well, but playing it for enjoyment really isn't cool.

 

[THAC0]

is it even possible to "sexualize" a male character?
Dress him in normal cloths: meh
Put him in a loin cloth or something: MANLY!!!!
Put him in bondage or S/M gear: mostly creepy, humorous, or gaaaaaayyyyyyy

but with women? just about everything you do with them makes them sexy. This might be because i am a heterosexual male. And i am not in support of the hyper sexualization of every single female character we see. But it just seems like their is nothing you can do to a male character that has the same impact as it does with female characters.

 

[templeg]

I've always thought the difference was that male soldiers being manly makes sense, i.e. big muscles for combat, but females are never muscly, even when they go into combat. It's just that the stereotype of the attractive male coincides with that of the fighting male, but it isn't the same for women.

 

[Irriduccibilli]

I agree 100% with this topic

 

[Haydyn]

Finally, somebody could explain it the way the OP did. I think one of the reasons people see female characters as more sexualized is because males are not treated as sex objects in the same way. Male strippers and prostitutes are very much outnumbered by females because women are attracted to power in a man, and non-powerful roles such as stripper take away that power. Men are attracted to the looks of the female and not worried about power. This is why we don't see women in games wearing fancy clothes and being rich, as well as having dominating physical power as objectifying them.

 

[Darkauthor81]

Snip

You make valid points. I hadn't seen the male protagonist in that way before.

 

[Fleaman]

Nah, I think you got it with the counterpoint. I'm too lazy to look up the article (it was linked from Cracked), but I'm under the impression that girls aren't as into steroidbeasts as steroidbeasts wish they were. Some muscle is better than none, but a guy Fenix's size isn't gonna be getting the dames all aflutter. He's a male power fantasy, pure and simple. Girls do not buy him.

is it even possible to "sexualize" a male character?
Dress him in normal cloths: meh
Put him in a loin cloth or something: MANLY!!!!
Put him in bondage or S/M gear: mostly creepy, humorous, or gaaaaaayyyyyyy

but with women? just about everything you do with them makes them sexy. This might be because i am a heterosexual male. And i am not in support of the hyper sexualization of every single female character we see. But it just seems like their is nothing you can do to a male character that has the same impact as it does with female characters.

Solid Snake's Ass.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

A better example would be a game like Devil May Cry, with its legions of female fans who obsess over attractive men running around shirtless, sometimes without even playing the game (I'm not making this up, it's a pretty big thing in Asia). In fact, the Sengoku Basara games were created specifically to appeal to this demographic, with a few characters to attract guys thrown in as an afterthought. This doesn't stop the games in question from being fun and often hilarious, and neither does half-naked women running around (society has just trained itself to complain about that one).

 

[The Long Road]

Female protagonists are a Catch 22.

If she's physically attractive, it's sexist because she's a sexualized bimbo that degrades women.

If she's intelligent, it's sexist because she propogates the stereotype that women are weak and can't stand on the front lines like a man.

If she's strong, it's sexist because she's just a male stand-in with tits.

If she's a normal girl that Gets Shit Done, it's sexist because she's a throwaway appeasement character.

If you get frustrated and just decide to have a male protagonist, it's sexist because he isn't a woman.

If she fights with stealth and sabotage like female spies in WWII, it's sexist because it stereotypes women as cunning and deceitful.

The list goes on and on...

This is why feminists get such a bad rap. You can't make them happy.

OT: I think you might be onto something, but maybe not quite hitting the bullseye. The poor portrayal of women in games that most people object to is clearly an attempt to use their sexual nature to hook male gamers. Male gamers make up the majority of the demographic and are an even larger part of the action game audience, so the devs are spot-on with their assumptions about that. Everyone's heard it before: sex sells.

However, men in games are more skewed towards the "one man army" archetype, which isn't really tied to sex appeal. It's a power fantasy. Everybody wants to think that they could plow through their enemies in the real world the way Master Chief, Marcus Fenix, and all the other FPS protagonists do. Perhaps such delusions of grandeur are more common among men than women, but either way I still don't see a power fantasy-fulfillment game marketed towards women selling very well, even given a limited demographic.

One could argue that the two are equally bad; however, with the current view in the US of violence being more tolerable than sex, the fight is lost before it begins. Perhaps Europe would see it in a different light. But considering how even bread ads are sexualized in some parts of Europe and no country there has won a war in over 100 years without calling in America, Canada, and Australia to back them up, I think that fight might over before it begins, too...

 

[Axolotl]

Pretty much the only female character in all media that is portrayed as a person and not a sex object, love interest, manipulative villain, mother figure etc is Liz Lemon from thirty rock.

In the whole of media? Seriously? You read every book, seen every film/TV show ever made and that's the only one you found? Because I gotta tell you, I can name dozens of characters like that from various films/TV shows.

 

[Ovoon]

Me personally, I feel that over-sexualization takes away from the realism and depth of the character. Faye from Cowboy Bebop for example... what was she wearing? For the whole show? How could that be comfortable? It just made me like her less. Having large breasts is a realistic, normal character trait, so why must they show it off at all times? Why must they be fully armored, but leave a space for their cleavage? Why can't we just create NORMAL people, and relate-able characters? For me thats what draws me in the most about a games character design, or a film or book. If I understand the character, and can relate. Not all characters should be of course, just mostly main characters. You know you made a good game when there isn't a single character in Persona 3 or 4 that I don't like. I wanted to get max social links with all of them.

However, JRPG's (or anything from japan for that matter) are usually the ones that throw in bizarre sexualization that either does or doesn't fit at all.

tl;dr I don't mind sexualization in games as long as it actually fits the characters and adds to their depth.

 

[Jabberwock xeno]

Finally, somebody could explain it the way the OP did. I think one of the reasons people see female characters as more sexualized is because males are not treated as sex objects in the same way. Male strippers and prostitutes are very much outnumbered by females because women are attracted to power in a man, and non-powerful roles such as stripper take away that power. Men are attracted to the looks of the female and not worried about power. This is why we don't see women in games wearing fancy clothes and being rich, as well as having dominating physical power as objectifying them.

Exactly.

It's not our fault that the american culture treats men and woman diffrent in regards to whats acceptable sexual behavior.

 

[Sovereignty]

Why do people cry so much over either gender being mis-represented in a medium meant to explore fantasy?

Seriously I would hate to run around in the Mass Effect world, if every human was flabby, or disgustingly thin.

It's about a role you get to play, and I don't need to pick up a controller to play me.

Though it'd be cool to play a GTA clone, where it's essentially a replica of my life. Otherwise? No I don't want to play me in a video game. I'd rather be a macho superhero who doesn't need to eat or sleep regularly, and doesn't need coffee to keep his eyes open past 3 am.